OT: FTO: petition in Washington

Noonthirtyjoe

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They should build a casino at the 50.
There isn't a consensus in the Indian - Native American community....

I had an Indian history professor that absolutely wanted to be called an Indian and did not like the term Native American.

There are many that want the term Redskin reinstated....and some don't
Makes no sense. They were never Indian so why would they want to be called that. Indian was Columbus thinking he hit India. lol. A history professor would know this.
 

dbldrew

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So that makes you an expert on all Native Americans?
Did I say that? Also what makes you an expert on all things Native American? considering the post I quoted and made a joke about, you sure where pretending to understand what Native Americans find offensive.. lol
 

dbldrew

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They should build a casino at the 50.

Makes no sense. They were never Indian so why would they want to be called that. Indian was Columbus thinking he hit India. lol. A history professor would know this.
They where never Native American either. Maybe that professor hated political correctness and liked the historic name?
 

modo

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They should build a casino at the 50.

Makes no sense. They were never Indian so why would they want to be called that. Indian was Columbus thinking he hit India. lol. A history professor would know this.

I asked her that.

The name Indian was used extensively and it stuck.

We are looking at it from a different time and lense she said.
 

modo

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They where never Native American either. Maybe that professor hated political correctness and liked the historic name?

She said Native American is a newer term and is meaningless to her.
 

remydat

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Did I say that? Also what makes you an expert on all things Native American? considering the post I quoted and made a joke about, you sure where pretending to understand what Native Americans find offensive.. lol
A 2019 poll by University of California, Berkeley surveyed 1,021 Native Americans, twice as many as in any previous polls.[162] 38% of self-identified Native Americans said they were not bothered by the Washington Redskins name. But 49% overall said it was offensive, along with 67% of respondents who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures, 60% of young people, and 52% of those with tribal affiliations.


Didnt claim to be an expert. I posted evidence of polls that support the fact that more find it offensive than don't.
 

didshereallysaythat

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A 2019 poll by University of California, Berkeley surveyed 1,021 Native Americans, twice as many as in any previous polls.[162] 38% of self-identified Native Americans said they were not bothered by the Washington Redskins name. But 49% overall said it was offensive, along with 67% of respondents who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures, 60% of young people, and 52% of those with tribal affiliations.


Didnt claim to be an expert. I posted evidence of polls that support the fact that more find it offensive than don't.
I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Native American's that watch football are not bothered by it. The people that are heavily engaged in their native cultures are likely not watching sports let alone the NFL. And these people likely have less of an understanding of the context behind mascots and team names.

So that is why there is the petition from Native American's to change it back. The people that watch the games and cheer on the Washington team are the ones affected by it.
 

dbldrew

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A 2019 poll by University of California, Berkeley surveyed 1,021 Native Americans, twice as many as in any previous polls.[162] 38% of self-identified Native Americans said they were not bothered by the Washington Redskins name. But 49% overall said it was offensive, along with 67% of respondents who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures, 60% of young people, and 52% of those with tribal affiliations.


Didnt claim to be an expert. I posted evidence of polls that support the fact that more find it offensive than don't.
And there is several other polls that show 70-90% don't care. But I do find it a bit amusing that you picked the poll that used "self identify", I'm sure if you get enough Elizabeth Warrens in your polling you can get whatever results you want . Well almost, it was still only 49%..

But that's all irrelevant, the only thing that matters is you made a statement speaking on behalf of Native Americans and I made a joke about your post which you then called me out for being an expert.

So only in the Remy mind of the vortex of stupidity can you make a serious statement and then call into question a joke reply based on "expertise"
 

remydat

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And there is several other polls that show 70-90% don't care. But I do find it a bit amusing that you picked the poll that used "self identify", I'm sure if you get enough Elizabeth Warrens in your polling you can get whatever results you want . Well almost, it was still only 49%..

But that's all irrelevant, the only thing that matters is you made a statement speaking on behalf of Native Americans and I made a joke about your post which you then called me out for being an expert.

So only in the Remy mind of the vortex of stupidity can you make a serious statement and then call into question a joke reply based on "expertise"

This has already been covered by me in the same post as it addresses the other polls that were often cited. If you actually read that post, the two polls were not representative samples nor was there equal opportunity for selection among other flaws.

Two national political polls, the first in 2004 by the National Annenberg Election Survey[5] and another in 2016 by The Washington Post.[159][160][161] were particularly influential. When a respondent identified themselves as Native American, both polls asked, "The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn’t it bother you?". In both polls, 90% responded that they were not bothered, 9% that they were offended, and 1% gave no response. These polls were widely cited by teams, fans, and mainstream media as evidence that there was no need to change the name of the Washington football team.

In a commentary published soon after the 2004 poll, 15 Native American scholars collaborated on a critique that stated that there were so many flaws in the Annenberg study that rather than being a measure of Native American opinion, it was an expression of white privilege and colonialism
 
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cwcwcwcw1

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My favorite teams
  1. Indiana Hoosiers
I always thought they should have changed it to the Washington Bullets.
 

JoJoBoxer

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Washington Bumblefucks
I had created a helmet for the team years ago. Sadly, I lost the design.

Keeping close ties to the Redskin name, they should have changed their name to the Washington Rednecks. They could have kept all of their colors the same, changing the indian design to a toothless redneck design.
 

JoJoBoxer

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This is bullshit. Nobody wanted to sign my petition to switch it back to Washington Football Team.
You would have gotten millions of signatures had you only chosen to have the team switch to The Washington Team of Football or WTF for short.
 

dbldrew

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This has already been covered by me in the same post as it addresses the other polls that were often cited. If you actually read that post, the two polls were not representative samples nor was there equal opportunity for selection among other flaws.

Two national political polls, the first in 2004 by the National Annenberg Election Survey[5] and another in 2016 by The Washington Post.[159][160][161] were particularly influential. When a respondent identified themselves as Native American, both polls asked, "The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn’t it bother you?". In both polls, 90% responded that they were not bothered, 9% that they were offended, and 1% gave no response. These polls were widely cited by teams, fans, and mainstream media as evidence that there was no need to change the name of the Washington football team.

In a commentary published soon after the 2004 poll, 15 Native American scholars collaborated on a critique that stated that there were so many flaws in the Annenberg study that rather than being a measure of Native American opinion, it was an expression of white privilege and colonialism

100% irrelevant.

Your post was speaking on behalf of Native Americans, my post was a joke. Then you questioned my expertise.

Do you not see how dumb you are being with this? Of course you see how dumb you are being, it's why you kicked off your vortex of stupidity...

Edit, also your attempt to change the subject doesn't even work here because your excuse that the poll had flaws in it was the poll in 2004, and doesn't address the 90% don't care in 2016 poll.

So again your vortex is just creating more ways for you to look foolish.. next time you see a joke reply.. just laugh it off and move on with your life
 
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Chicoman

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Wonder how many signatures the Washington Homophobic Dumbasses got? WHD!
 

remydat

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100% irrelevant.

Your post was speaking on behalf of Native Americans, my post was a joke. Then you questioned my expertise.

Do you not see how dumb you are being with this? Of course you see how dumb you are being, it's why you kicked off your vortex of stupidity...

Edit, also your attempt to change the subject doesn't even work here because your excuse that the poll had flaws in it was the poll in 2004, and doesn't address the 90% don't care in 2016 poll.

So again your vortex is just creating more ways for you to look foolish.. next time you see a joke reply.. just laugh it off and move on with your life
My post was based on the largest poll conducted. The poll I am using was a scientigic one published in academic journals. The WaPo poll was a public opinion poll that was not scientific and had fatal flaws like the below references.


Sorry. Neither of the 90% polls pass scientific rigor. So no I am not an expert. I just base my response on a legitimate science. Not a flawed public opinion poll whose methodology would be laughed at in academic circles.
 
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dbldrew

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My post was based on the largest poll conducted. The poll I am using was a scientigic one published in academic journals. The WaPo poll was a public opinion poll that was not scientific and had fatal flaws like the below references.


Sorry. Neither of the 90% polls pass scientific rigor. So no I am not an expert. I just base my response on a legitimate science. Not a flawed public opinion poll whose methodology would be laughed at in academic circles.

Still 100% irrelevant

You spoke on behalf of Native Americans and then called me out for doing the same thing.

The difference was your post was serious and mine was a joke

All your attempts to change the subject onto the legitimacy of polls is just your vortex attempting to get off the topic of you saying something stupid, it's what you do
 

remydat

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Still 100% irrelevant

You spoke on behalf of Native Americans and then called me out for doing the same thing.

The difference was your post was serious and mine was a joke

All your attempts to change the subject onto the legitimacy of polls is just your vortex attempting to get off the topic of you saying something stupid, it's what you do

I didn't call you out.
Would anyone here actually roll up on a reservation and say "What up Redskins" to a crowd of Native Americans? If the answer is no then probably not suitable to name a team.
They would find it very offensive if you did that.. not the "Redskins" part but the "What up" part
Ok Native American expert.
You made a joke and I responded sarcastically.

The funny thing is Remy I'm actually Cherokee

So that makes you an expert on all Native Americans?
You then claimed you were Cherokee so I simply asked a question.

Did I say that? Also what makes you an expert on all things Native American? considering the post I quoted and made a joke about, you sure where pretending to understand what Native Americans find offensive.. lol
Then you asked me what makes me an expert and I explained to you that my comments were based off of the largest and only scientific poll done on the matter. You then tried to bring up two non-scientific polls and I provided documented evidence of why those polls were not scientific and flawed.

So not sure what to tell you. You getting upset that I answered the question you asked me and that the polls you were quoting were garbage.

So in conclusion neither of us are Native American experts. My opinion is just based off of better polling data than yours. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
 
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dbldrew

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I didn't call you out.
and the vortex spins and spins
You then claimed you were Cherokee so I simply asked a question.
nope "So that makes you an expert on all Native Americans?" is not a question but a challenge of authority.

Then you asked me what makes me an expert and I explained to you that my comments were based off of the largest and only scientific poll done on the matter.
It was a rhetorical question to throw it back in your face to mock you not a real question.

You then tried to bring up two non-scientific polls and I provided documented evidence of why those polls were not scientific and flawed.
incorrect you attempted to change the subject off of you challenging my authority off of a joke post and realized you look dumb doing that.
the funny thing is you still failed because you are wrong. The "evidence" did noting to disprove the 2016 poll that you claim is flawed..

here is what the 2016 poll did.. want to explain why this is flawed?

Q: Why is it difficult to survey Native Americans?
Surveying the Native American population is difficult because of the group’s relatively small size and the fact that many who live on reservations lack landline telephone access. A 2004 survey by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, which found 90 percent of Native Americans were not offended by the Redskins name, has been criticized for potentially underrepresenting Indians who live on reservations and are less likely to have landline phones, for not measuring levels of tribal membership and for only asking a single question about attitudes on the issue.
The Washington Post survey was designed to overcome challenges in surveying Native Americans by reaching a large portion of the sample through cellular phones. Roughly 95 percent of Native American adults have landline or cellular phone access in their households, and over half are cellphone-only, according to The Post’s analysis of the National Health Interview Survey. Nearly 6 in 10 Native Americans in The Post survey were interviewed on a cellular phone. The Post survey also asked questions about tribal membership and several questions to capture attitudes toward the team’s name and the broader use of Native American imagery in sports. In addition to standardized survey interviews, The Post conducted more than two dozen follow-up interviews with survey respondents who agreed to speak with reporters during the initial survey.

Q: How were Native Americans chosen for the survey?
The survey was conducted in conjunction with weekly national surveys of U.S. adults reached through a random sample of cellular and landline telephones conducted by Social Science Research Solutions of Media, Pa. Toward the end of a survey on a range of topics, respondents who identified their race as Native American were asked a series of questions on views of the Redskins team name and Native American imagery in sports. While Native Americans account for about 2 percent of the total population, the survey’s extended field period from December to April reached 504 Native American respondents. The survey interviewed Native Americans living in all 50 states, including Alaska and Hawaii, and respondents both living on or near reservations and those who do not.

Q: How did the survey define Native Americans?
All survey respondents identified themselves as Native Americans, American Indians or Alaska Natives when asked, “Do you consider yourself white, black or African American, Asian, Native American, Pacific Islander, mixed race or some other race?” While many multi-racial Americans have partial Native American ancestry, the survey focused only on those who first identified themselves as Native Americans. This definition most closely compares with the Census Bureau’s categorization American Indian Alone, rather than American Indians in combination with another race.

Q: How did the survey account for tribal membership?
Respondents were asked whether they are currently enrolled as a member with a Native American tribe and to which specific tribe they belong. Tribal members represented 36 percent of interviews conducted and accounted for 44 percent of the final weighted sample, which matches the Census Bureau’s data on demographic and geographic characteristics. Cherokee and Navajo members accounted for the largest share of this group, though most reported enrollment in smaller tribes. Survey results are reported both for tribal members and non-tribal members, as well as for other demographic groups.

Q: How did the survey reach Native Americans living on reservations?
The survey used respondents’ Zip codes and the 2010 Census to identify whether their neighborhood included a federally recognized reservation or tribal land. Roughly 1 in 10 interviews were conducted among Native Americans who lived in Zip codes where at least 75 percent of land is on a reservation or tribal area, and another 10 percent live in Zip codes with at least some portion of tribal land. Final survey results were weighted to match census data indicating 20 percent of single-race Native Americans live in Zip codes with at least 75 percent reservation land, and 17 percent live in Zip codes containing at least some reservation land.

Q: How did the survey ask whether the Redskins name is offensive?
Questions must be clear to all respondents and avoid leading language to produce accurate results. The survey’s first question about the Redskins team name asked, “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive, or doesn’t it bother you?” This same question was asked in a 2004 Annenberg Center survey, and some have suggested respondents could misunderstand the phrase “or doesn’t it bother you?” The Post asked follow-up questions of the first 43 respondents to verify they understood the questions and found no respondents changed their answer due to confusion about the wording (see methodology for more detail on this test). The results from this question are also broadly in line with other questions in the survey asking the general offensiveness of the word “Redskin.” Exact question wording, order and percentage results can be found here.

Q: Can a sample of 500 Native Americans be projected to the entire population?
Surveys of this size can produce accurate estimates of any size population by employing “probability sampling,” where every member of the population has a known and equal chance of being selected. Such surveys are used to measure consumer confidence, the unemployment rate, political attitudes and health. The Post’s survey of 504 Native Americans has a margin of sampling error of 5.5 percentage points, meaning that if the same survey were repeated 100 times, in 95 cases the results would not be expected to differ by more than 5.5 percentage points. Surveys can have other sources of error and variation which are more difficult to quantify, including measurement error and non-response error and the fact that about 5 percent of Native Americans are unreachable by either cellular or landline phone. Statistical weighting to Census Bureau benchmarks helps correct for some of these issues.

Q: Is the survey demographically representative of the Native American population?
Yes. Survey results were statistically weighted to match U.S. Census Bureau estimates of the demographic and regional population characteristics of single-race American Indian/Alaska Native adults. The final sample matches population estimates for gender and age groups, Hispanic ethnicity, educational attainment, regional makeup (Northeast, North-Central, South, Mountain and Pacific), and proximity to reservation and tribal lands.

This was a standard interview survey that the race of the participant was identified BEFORE the questions where asked.

in comparison to the online survey that you are putting more faith into which would be open for all the SJW out there jumping on board and "identifying" as Native American to give more weight to this SJW crusade. The fact that this survey dives into if they are cis or trans gendered and the results of the survey was 31% identified as a Cis gendered man and 69% identified and a Cis woman, trans, non binary or gender ***** and the head of your survey went on about the diversity and inclusion of her team, this reeks of them not liking the results and in the name of social justice tried again and went with a methodology that would be easier to get the results they where after.

So again next time.. just move on from a joke post and save yourself a lot of trouble..
 

remydat

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"I mean, [the Post poll] would never be scientifically published. They called people, as part of a larger study, and they had these items [about mascots] in there. One of the things that we know in science is that the questions you ask before and after influence the response. For example, if I asked you a really serious question about people who are dying in your community, and then I say, “By the way, are you offended by Native mascots?” you see how you can really influence people. People have requested to know what the items were and what order they were in. The second issue is that they called people. There’s very good data that shows when you do a call versus online, it changes peoples’ responses. When you call, people are more likely to give positive and socially desirable answers. And then they only allowed as answers to their question, “are you offended, are you indifferent, are you not bothered?” Native people telling a person they don’t know that they’re “offended,” that’s a strong emotion."

For sure. We took the same question [the Post asked], but we gave participants a one-to-seven scale. So you can answer, “I’m somewhat offended, I’m moderately offended, I’m extremely offended.” We also didn’t call them, we allowed them to do it online. There’s no stranger or other person you’re trying to account for, [worrying] what they’re going to think about your response. Many Native scholars have reached out and asked for the [Post’s] data. Or, better yet, show us what your questionnaire was, what are all of the items that you asked? They won’t share it. None of that.


Sorry the poll was not scientific and the way they asked questions and use of telephone calls vs online introduces bias. Let's revisit when you have a poll that is academically published. WaPo wont share their data so there was no peer review here which is a feaure of actual science. The end.
 
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