OT: FTO: petition in Washington

[Leon Sandcastle]

Can it really be that offensive if Native Americans want it changed back?

I have a few native friends. One of them was a redskins fan and changed teams when they were forced to change their name. He won't even talk about them now. Fucking Packers fan now lol

 

[dbldrew]

"I mean, [the Post poll] would never be scientifically published. They called people, as part of a larger study, and they had these items [about mascots] in there. One of the things that we know in science is that the questions you ask before and after influence the response. For example, if I asked you a really serious question about people who are dying in your community, and then I say, “By the way, are you offended by Native mascots?” you see how you can really influence people. People have requested to know what the items were and what order they were in. The second issue is that they called people. There’s very good data that shows when you do a call versus online, it changes peoples’ responses. When you call, people are more likely to give positive and socially desirable answers. And then they only allowed as answers to their question, “are you offended, are you indifferent, are you not bothered?” Native people telling a person they don’t know that they’re “offended,” that’s a strong emotion."

For sure. We took the same question [the Post asked], but we gave participants a one-to-seven scale. So you can answer, “I’m somewhat offended, I’m moderately offended, I’m extremely offended.” We also didn’t call them, we allowed them to do it online. There’s no stranger or other person you’re trying to account for, [worrying] what they’re going to think about your response. Many Native scholars have reached out and asked for the [Post’s] data. Or, better yet, show us what your questionnaire was, what are all of the items that you asked? They won’t share it. None of that.

Sorry the poll was not scientific and the way they asked questions and use of telephone calls vs online introduces bias. Let's revisit when you have a poll that is academically published. WaPo wont share their data so there was no peer review here which is a feaure of actual science. The end.

Thats opinion that it would never be scientifically published. and the question that was asked takes 2 seconds to find it was “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive" So they wont share it is complete BS

and again your online poll that is mostly filled with trans identifying people (which completely destroys the accuracy of the numbers considering trans identifying is less then 1% of the population) and yet you still only get 49% with being offended, while 51% doesnt care.. so it seems you saying the majority of Native Americans are offended is statistically false, maybe next time they will stack the deck with more trans liberal lunatics to get you over the 50% threshold

my god what a complete joke lol again this was all started because of a joke post

 

[remydat]

Thats opinion that it would never be scientifically published. and the question that was asked takes 2 seconds to find it was “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive" So they wont share it is complete BS

and again your online poll that is mostly filled with trans identifying people (which completely destroys the accuracy of the numbers considering trans identifying is less then 1% of the population) and yet you still only get 49% with being offended, while 51% doesnt care.. so it seems you saying the majority of Native Americans are offended is statistically false, maybe next time they will stack the deck with more trans liberal lunatics to get you over the 50% threshold

my god what a complete joke lol again this was all started because of a joke post

It isnt opinion. To be published you need to share data so your findings can be challenged. They wont. And we know that 8 years later it still hasnt been published in an academic journal.

They wont share the full poll questions to see if the other queations created bias.

No you cant read. Only 38% said they were not offended. 49% said it was offensive and it was 67% of those actually engaged in tribal culture. So basically it is largely people with Native American blood but who dont really engage with their culture that said they were not offended which makes sense.

38% of self-identified Native Americans said they were not bothered by the Washington Redskins name. But 49% overall said it was offensive, along with 67% of respondents who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures, 60% of young people, and 52% of those with tribal affiliations.

 

[RunRunRunPunt]

Washington Wokes
Washington Bidens

Washington United would've been cooler

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

Thats opinion that it would never be scientifically published. and the question that was asked takes 2 seconds to find it was “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive" So they wont share it is complete BS

and again your online poll that is mostly filled with trans identifying people (which completely destroys the accuracy of the numbers considering trans identifying is less then 1% of the population) and yet you still only get 49% with being offended, while 51% doesnt care.. so it seems you saying the majority of Native Americans are offended is statistically false, maybe next time they will stack the deck with more trans liberal lunatics to get you over the 50% threshold

my god what a complete joke lol again this was all started because of a joke post

Remy is gunna remy

 

[dbldrew]

It isnt opinion. To be published you need to share data so your findings can be challenged. They wont. And we know that 8 years later it still hasnt been published in an academic journal.

They wont share the full poll questions to see if the other queations created bias.

No you cant read. Only 38% said they were not offended. 49% said it was offensive and it was 67% of those actually engaged in tribal culture. So basically it is largely people with Native American blood but who dont really engage with their culture that said they were not offended which makes sense.

38% of self-identified Native Americans said they were not bothered by the Washington Redskins name. But 49% overall said it was offensive, along with 67% of respondents who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures, 60% of young people, and 52% of those with tribal affiliations.

It is opinion because unless they destroyed the data it can be submitted if they wanted to submit it. And being peer reviewed has become a joke so whats the point? look at this from your study you are basing your belief system on..


this should of never gotten past the peer review.. but when your "peers" are a bunch of lunatics' that only care about a political agenda it becomes meaningless to be peer reviewed.

The above destroys any scientific legitimacy.. yet passed the peer review..




sorry remy your stacked deck survey is still only 49% offensive to 51% doesnt care

 

[dbldrew]

Remy is gunna remy

yes he is and this all started because I made a simple Joke which he should of just laughed off or ignored

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

yes he is and this all started because I made a simple Joke which he should of just laughed off or ignored

Ya, I seen it. Decided to quit reading due to the vortex

 

[remydat]

It is opinion because unless they destroyed the data it can be submitted if they wanted to submit it. And being peer reviewed has become a joke so whats the point? look at this from your study you are basing your belief system on.

this should of never gotten past the peer review.. but when your "peers" are a bunch of lunatics' that only care about a political agenda it becomes meaningless to be peer reviewed.

The above destroys any scientific legitimacy.. yet passed the peer review..


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sorry remy your stacked deck survey is still only 49% offensive to 51% doesnt care

Please provide evidence of the WaPo study being published in an academic journal. Thanks.

Ok now you are an expert on peer review. LMFAO.

67% of Native Americans engaged in tribal culture oppose the name. I dont really care what someone that is 1/16 Native American and doesnt give a shit about the culture says as they have no vested interest in it.

 

[ursamajor]

Shoulda changed the name to the “Washington Lobbyists”. Although, if they changed their name to the “Washington Super PACs” they would’ve completely insulated themselves from any meaningful, future investigations.

 

[remydat]

yes he is and this all started because I made a simple Joke which he should of just laughed off or ignored

No I made a sarcastic joke about you being an expert and you decided to regale us about your Cherokee ancestry as if that made you an authority on all things Native American. Just like you now an expert on peer review.

 

[dbldrew]

Please provide evidence of the WaPo study being published in an academic journal. Thanks.

So now we are into the strawman part of your vortex? please provide proof that I said it was published.. thanks

Ok now you are an expert on peer review. LMFAO.

Doesnt take an expert to understand that when you have almost 70% of a group that only represents less then 1% of the population then your methodology is flawed.

67% of Native Americans engaged in tribal culture oppose the name. I dont really care what someone that is 1/16 Native American and doesnt give a shit about the culture says as they have no vested interest in it.

incorrect, 69% of the study was trans, so what the survey should say was "trans people are offended" or something like that. The whole study is garbage. move on, maybe you didnt realize it in the beginning, but now you do. There is no justification for putting your faith in a study that is obviously so biased and flawed, I understand the desire for your vortex to continue and argue is strong but this is just a non winner for you, maybe just let this one go?

 

[remydat]

So now we are into the strawman part of your vortex? please provide proof that I said it was published.. thanks


Doesnt take an expert to understand that when you have almost 70% of a group that only represents less then 1% of the population then your methodology is flawed.


incorrect, 69% of the study was trans, so what the survey should say was "trans people are offended" or something like that. The whole study is garbage. move on, maybe you didnt realize it in the beginning, but now you do. There is no justification for putting your faith in a study that is obviously so biased and flawed, I understand the desire for your vortex to continue and argue is strong but this is just a non winner for you, maybe just let this one go?

Where did I say you said it was published? I asked you to provide evidence that it was. You cant because it wasnt. So I was making fun of your dumb logic claiming they could still publish it 8 years later when it is obvious there is no desire too because it was never intended to be a scientific poll.

You really are dense. The 69% includes Cisgender women. So no 69% were not trans. LMFAO. What makes your liberal trans logic silly is they indicated that 9% of respondents were extremely conservative, 12% conservative and 11% somewhat conservative. It was 9%, 11% and 11% for extremely liberal, liberal and somewhat liberal. So it was balanced politically.

Now post the same data for the WaPo poll please.

 

[dbldrew]

Where did I say you said it was published? I asked you to provide evidence that it was.

so you want me to provide evidence for a point i never made? lol ok mr strawman

You really are dense. The 69% includes Cisgender women. So no 69% were not trans. LMFAO.

Kind of odd dont you think that they grouped all trans and non Binary into the Cis woman group? Almost like it was an attempt to hide how many trans people where in the study so guys like you would fall for it? But if you want to call it closer to a 50/50 split of men and women that still leaves almost 40% trans which is absurd. (and when removed from the 49% that are offended, we are in line with 9% offended like the other polls)

They are hiding the data in this study, your not an idiot (even though I call you dumb) but you know that is a BS study. you cant manipulate the data like that, you know this. Move on I'm sure we can argue plenty about football tomorrow, this is a non winner for you

 

[remydat]

so you want me to provide evidence for a point i never made? lol ok mr strawman


Kind of odd dont you think that they grouped all trans and non Binary into the Cis woman group? Almost like it was an attempt to hide how many trans people where in the study so guys like you would fall for it? But if you want to call it closer to a 50/50 split of men and women that still leaves almost 40% trans which is absurd. (and when removed from the 49% that are offended, we are in line with 9% offended like the other polls)

They are hiding the data in this study, your not an idiot (even though I call you dumb) but you know that is a BS study. you cant manipulate the data like that, you know this. Move on I'm sure we can argue plenty about football tomorrow, this is a non winner for you

So it isnt a scientific study. Thanks.

You are making assumptions to suit your narrative. You literally made an entire argument thinking 69% of respondents were trans. LMFAO.

What were the percentages in the WaPo study? Please cite your source.

 

[dbldrew]

So it isnt a scientific study. Thanks.

You are making assumptions to suit your narrative. You literally made an entire argument thinking 69% of respondents were trans. LMFAO.

What were the percentages in the WaPo study? Please cite your source.

Im not making assumptions I'm pointing out a huge problem with your "scientific" study with them hiding data.

there is no logical reason to group cis women and trans together, you know this.. your not this stupid. You know the only reason to do that is to attempt to hid the real numbers.

So we have a 2004 poll that showed 90% dont care, a 2016 poll shows that 90% doesnt care, a 2019 poll shows that 75% dont care
The Native American Gradians Association (a group who actually speaks for Native Americans) sued to bring back the name Redskins

but you are going to ignore all that in favor of a study that included such a high number of transgendered people they had to hide the total %..

If you want to include transgenders into the study then that data needs to be separated out, or completely removed. The online poll is based on self identifying as Native American, and you have a group of people that have a disconnect with their self perception and reality grouping all that data together poisons your results for how real Native Americans feel. Your poll knows what they did and they did it on purpose to help get the results they want, there is no other logical explanation for not having 3 groups

 

[remydat]

Im not making assumptions I'm pointing out a huge problem with your "scientific" study with them hiding data.

there is no logical reason to group cis women and trans together, you know this.. your not this stupid. You know the only reason to do that is to attempt to hid the real numbers.

So we have a 2004 poll that showed 90% dont care, a 2016 poll shows that 90% doesnt care, a 2019 poll shows that 75% dont care
The Native American Gradians Association (a group who actually speaks for Native Americans) sued to bring back the name Redskins

but you are going to ignore all that in favor of a study that included such a high number of transgendered people they had to hide the total %..

If you want to include transgenders into the study then that data needs to be separated out, or completely removed. The online poll is based on self identifying as Native American, and you have a group of people that have a disconnect with their self perception and reality grouping all that data together poisons your results for how real Native Americans feel. Your poll knows what they did and they did it on purpose to help get the results they want, there is no other logical explanation for not having 3 groups

Yes you are making assumptions. You are so biased you read it first as 69% trans and then when the sheer stupidity of thinking that was pointed out you have moved the goalposts to they included cis and trans together to hide something.

It is funny that you are claiming this poll is hiding something when they have shared their demographic data. Link to to the demographic data for the polls your cite? If you can't then how is it they are not hiding something?

Also why did you ignore that the poll had 32% conservative, 37% moderate and 31% liberal participants?

 

[dbldrew]

Yes you are making assumptions. You are so biased you read it first as 69% trans and then when the sheer stupidity of thinking that was pointed out you have moved the goalposts to they included cis and trans together to hide something.

It is funny that you are claiming this poll is hiding something when they have shared their demographic data. Link to to the demographic data for the polls your cite? If you can't then how is it they are not hiding something?

Also why did you ignore that the poll had 32% conservative, 37% moderate and 31% liberal participants?

there could be 1 cis woman and the rest trans correct? that rounds up to still be 69% trans thats the problem with how they are hiding data.

We know for a fact that they are manipulating the data. There is no logical reasoning they did what they did. The data should of been men, women, and a separate category for trans. You dodged answering why they grouped them together, because you know there is no logical reasoning.

As far as the other polls there is only your speculation that the other polls are flawed, a speculation that stems from this group that has proven to not be trustworthy said the other polls where flawed.

And yes I'm ignoring the breakdown of liberal vs conservatives, this is not a trustworthy poll, they manipulated data so why would I believe any of the data they provided?

why are you ignoring what the NAGA an actual Native American group is saying on the matter?

 

[remydat]

there could be 1 cis woman and the rest trans correct? that rounds up to still be 69% trans thats the problem with how they are hiding data.

We know for a fact that they are manipulating the data. There is no logical reasoning they did what they did. The data should of been men, women, and a separate category for trans. You dodged answering why they grouped them together, because you know there is no logical reasoning.

As far as the other polls there is only your speculation that the other polls are flawed, a speculation that stems from this group that has proven to not be trustworthy said the other polls where flawed.

And yes I'm ignoring the breakdown of liberal vs conservatives, this is not a trustworthy poll, they manipulated data so why would I believe any of the data they provided?

why are you ignoring what the NAGA an actual Native American group is saying on the matter?

Sir you were wrong and you know it. You cant get 32% conservatives if it was 69% trans nor would it have survived peer review if that were the case.

Again where is the data for WAPO?

NAGA is one Native American group that supports the name. It was only founded in 2017 and its Native American membership is 75k. It also has far right ties to groups like Patriots Prayer.

Here are the Native American organizations that oppose the name including the Cherokees whom you profess to be a member of. They represent millions of Native Americans.

In its amicus brief filed in the case, the NCAI states that the combined enrollment of its member tribes in 2013 was 1.2 million individuals.[98]

Many tribal councils have passed resolutions or issued statements regarding their opposition to the name of the Washington Redskins, including the Cherokee and Comanche Nations of Oklahoma, the Inter Tribal Council of Arizona,[99] the Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes,[100][101] the Oneida Indian Nation (New York),[102] the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe (North Dakota) and the United South and Eastern Tribes (USET).[103] In April 2014, Navajo Nation Council voted in favor of a statement opposing the name of the Washington team, as well as other disparaging references to American Indians by other professional sports franchises.[104] Other Native American groups advocating change include: the Native American Bar Association of DC,[105] the National Caucus of Native American State Legislators,[106] and the Society of American Indian Government Employees.[107]

But hey you found one obscure Native American organization with 75k members that support your position and ignored Native American groups that represent millions of Native Americans. LMFAO!.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Bears Titans game won’t be played today. There is an F5 Vortex going through the Midwest this morning. Sorry everyone.