OT: Ranking the 30 Best NBA teams from 2000-'12

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Did you just ignore the way Lebron changed his game over the course of the entire season or something? Lebron didn't break out the post game in the Finals for the first time. There's a reason he shot a career high from the field this year and attempted a career low 3pt attempts.

It's like you never watched a single game all season.

Lebron this year played differently compared to almost any other time last year on. There's a reason he was training with Hakeem the last off season after the loss to Dallas.

You do get the idea that Lebron with a post game helps dictate more on the offensive end than Lebron without a post game right?

Derp.

Of course I get that and never stated differently.

However, it is not like LeBron has all of the sudden become a dynamo in the post. He has added that option to his game, which is beneficial. That isn't how he got most of his points against OKC.

You are ignoring that OKC's defensive style and ability was not as good as Dallas. That has a LOT also to do with why LBJ was able to dominate the paint in 2012 and not 2011.

 

[FirstTimer]

Before this season I wasn't a big fan of LeBron, because I thought he was too streaky of a shooter. He got a lot better over the offseason and improved his game during the season. He's a better and more complete player this year.

He won the NBA Title because he was the best player in the NBA this year. And Bosh figured out what he was supposed to do as far as contributing. Wade was good. Battier killed it from the 3 pt line. Chalmers a lot better than he's been before.

And this is all coming from an NBA fucktard. And you're like an NBA writer or something?

Lebron playing more in the post this year helped Bosh a ton. Bron playing in the mid post more required teams to if not double, at least roll help and rotations his way and it opened up Bosh a lot more from mid range and weak post. Bosh's over all stats may have taken a slight dip this past season but I felt he was way more effective in his role this year than last.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Another thing to LBJ's credit is that last year, and others prior, he looked too scared to attack the lane because he didn't want to shoot FT's.

This year, he was fearless.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Lebron playing more in the post this year helped Bosh a ton. Bron playing in the mid post more required teams to if not double, at least roll help and rotations his way and it opened up Bosh a lot more from mid range and weak post. Bosh's over all stats may have taken a slight dip this past season but I felt he was way more effective in his role this year than last.

I think a big problem is that Bosh was trying to be more than he was last year. He went from the only good player on the Raptors to being on a team with two all-stars and it took awhile to adjust.

I love what LeBron did over the offseason and during this season/playoffs. He fucking earned that championship.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Before this season I wasn't a big fan of LeBron, because I thought he was too streaky of a shooter. He got a lot better over the offseason and improved his game during the season. He's a better and more complete player this year.

He won the NBA Title because he was the best player in the NBA this year. And Bosh figured out what he was supposed to do as far as contributing. Wade was good. Battier killed it from the 3 pt line. Chalmers a lot better than he's been before.

And this is all coming from an NBA fucktard. And you're like an NBA writer or something?

He is still a streaky shooter. He percentages shooting from outside of the paint were abysmal even in the 2012 Finals.

To his credit, he was aggressive in his efforts to attack OKC's weak defense which paid off greatly.

LBJ was the best player in the NBA last year and the 2 years prior and he didn't win the title then. Having the best player is far from the main reason why the Heat are 2012 NBA Champions.

Battier's addition and Tyson Chandler/J.J. Barea's absence from Dallas is why I picked Miami to win the title.

And I was right.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

He is still a streaky shooter. He percentages shooting from outside of the paint were abysmal even in the 2012 Finals.

To his credit, he was aggressive in his efforts to attack OKC's weak defense which paid off greatly.

LBJ was the best player in the NBA last year and the 2 years prior and he didn't win the title then. Having the best player is far from the main reason why the Heat are 2012 NBA Champions.

Battier's addition and Tyson Chandler/J.J. Barea's absence from Dallas is why I picked Miami to win the title.

And I was right.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You saw the Mavericks making it to the Finals if they had Chandler and Barea?

Spurs and Thunder were both easily better than them this year. Even if they have Chandler and Barea.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I was also the first one on this forum to say

'Uh oh. LBJ is working with Olajuwon. Look what happened to Kobe (won 2 titles) and Dwight (best offensive season yet) after they worked with Hakeem.'

I've always said LBJ was the best player in the NBA.

I picked Miami over Dallas last year.

I picked Miami before the season this year as well.

I am far from a "LeBron hater."

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You saw the Mavericks making it to the Finals if they had Chandler and Barea?

Spurs and Thunder were both easily better than them this year. Even if they have Chandler and Barea.

The Thunder are almost a carbon copy (with an improved Durant and Harden) of what they were last season (minus Maynor and add an old Fisher).

The Mavericks were clearly better last year than the Thunder last year and Tyson Chandler and J.J. Barea (with some DeShawn Stevenson) definitely would make them better than OKC again in 2012.

The Spurs' core also was one year older this year. They added some good pieces and had Ginobili healthy for the playoffs finally. But Dallas was clearly better.

Dallas is the better defensive team and has the best shooters. Not to mention the best offensive player in Dirk Nowitzki who was playing out of his mind.

 

[FirstTimer]

Of course I get that and never stated differently.

So then bringing up what Dallas did to Lebron last year(when Lebron played a different style) is moot.

So why even bother bringing it up?

However, it is not like LeBron has all of the sudden become a dynamo in the post. He has added that option to his game, which is beneficial. That isn't how he got most of his points against OKC.

Statistically Incorrect.

In the series Lebron James scored a whopping 88 of is 105 pts from the field inside of 9ft from the bucket. That's 84% of his points from the field in the series.

Of those 105 pts James scored 72 of them inside of 3ft. That's 69%.

I would say he scored "most" of his points based on his new found ability to post in the mid to low block area and be more effective from there. Then again I'm sure you'll confuse this with the idea that James wasn't shooting jump hooks the entire night..but whatever.

You're stupid so I'm sure you won't understand the data.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I would say he scored "most" of his points based on his new found ability to post in the mid to low block area and be more effective from there. Then again I'm sure you'll confuse this with the idea that James wasn't shooting jump hooks the entire night..but whatever.

He scored most of his points from nearly the arc along with the high post because OKC defended him one-on-one and he was overpowering defenders.

You are also a hypocrite for saying earlier in this thread that Amare wasn't a threat in the post and then turning around and claiming LBJ is now.

 

[houheffna]

LeBron James vs. Metta World Peace | Basketball-Reference.com

I don't see where Artest is stopping Lebron from controlling shit. Nor would he at any time in his prime. If anything, it would be the other way around.

Hou's response in the '04 Pacers vs. '12 Heat discussion to me seemed to try to imply that Artest wouldn't be much of a factor in the series.

I have already pointed out evidence in the very link he cited which shows that Artest has affected LBJ in a negative manner.

This reminds me of arguments I used to have 15 years ago with a co-worker who said Michael Cooper in his prime, could stop Michael Jordan....just bad, bad basketball right there.

Where do you get that from? My response would suggest that Artest would not at all stop Lebron James. As I have said previously, despite the crap Cuban spewed against Bayless on First Take...Lebron stopped himself. Point blank period. The Heat lost because Lebron stopped trying and the Mavs were relentless and not intimidated.

The Lebron of this year could not be stopped by Artest, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper...no damn body! He is a power forward with point guard speed and he has opened his game even more. But most important, he was NEVER intimidated by any person...he was intimidated by the moment.

That no longer happens...so when it is time to step up his game, could Artest present a hindrance, sure...could he affect Lebron negatively to the point that Lebron would not impact the game as he usually does? No. Hell no.

Lebron is a better player in every facet of the game than Artest in his prime. But ask yourself this in relation to James vs. Artest...what would Lebron do to Artest? Would Artest be less effective in games with James guarding him? Yes. Jermaine couldn't carry a team on that level, and the supporting cast was not good enough to pick up the flack for one of the main players on the team in Artest's lack of performance on the offensive end.

If the 2004 Pacers give the Heat problems...it is because of one guy and one guy only...Rick Carlisle.

 

[FirstTimer]

BRB Lebron James scored 84% of his points from the field from inside the FT line but his post game isn't how he scored "most of his points".


:rofl:

It's like Rami never even watched the Finals.

 

[FirstTimer]

He scored most of his points from nearly the arc

He absolutely did not.

The data says the exact opposite. The "arc" isn't 9ft away from the basket. Hell the FT is 15ft away.

84% of James points(from the field) came from closer to the basket than the FT line.

You're just flat out wrong.

You are also a hypocrite for saying earlier in this thread that Amare wasn't a threat in the post and then turning around and claiming LBJ is now.

Umm no I'm not.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

BRB Lebron James scored 84% of his points from the field from inside the FT line but his post game isn't how he scored "most of his points".

That doesn't mean that is where he received the ball.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

He absolutely did not.

The data says the exact opposite. The "arc" isn't 9ft away from the basket. Hell the FT is 15ft away.

84% of James points(from the field) came from closer to the basket than the FT line.

You're just flat out wrong.



Umm no I'm not.

He receives the ball at the top the VAST majority of the time and dribbles to where he wants to go. Does he receive the ball in the post sometimes? Yes, but mostly he dribbles to where he wants to go. And that is made incredibly easy when you have Sefolosha and Harden trying to guard you ONE-on-ONE!

 

[FirstTimer]

He receives the ball at the top the VAST majority of the time and dribbles to where he wants to go. Does he receive the ball in the post sometimes? Yes, but mostly he dribbles to where he wants to go. And that is made incredibly easy when you have Sefolosha and Harden trying to guard you ONE-on-ONE!

Again. Wrong. James was starting in the post more than at any time in his entire career. Especially in the Finals. It's like you never watched the game. And one would think an improved post game would lead to him being able to use post moves once he';s inside of 9ft from the rim.

You're god awful at this.

The data proves you wrong, film proves you wrong, basically reality proves you wrong and yet you continue to argue.

 

[Diddy1122]

Lebron is & always will be a threat anywhere on the court because he's Lebron. And he's more of a post threat than Amare because he is an incredible passer.

Lebron played with his back to the basket ALOT in the OKC series. When OKC would show help to double, he would kick it to a wide open shooter. It's the reason why Battier, Chalmers, & Miller absolutely destroyed the Thunder with their outside shooting.

 

[FirstTimer]

That doesn't mean that is where he received the ball.

Did you watch ANY of the games?

 

[FirstTimer]

Lebron is & always will be a threat anywhere on the court because he's Lebron. And he's more of a post threat than Amare because he is an incredible passer.

Lebron played with his back to the basket ALOT in the OKC series. When OKC would show help to double, he would kick it to a wide open shooter. It's the reason why Battier, Chalmers, & Miller absolutely destroyed the Thunder with their outside shooting.

Diddy. STFU. You obviously watched the games. Rami knows better despite him not watching them.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

This reminds me of arguments I used to have 15 years ago with a co-worker who said Michael Cooper in his prime, could stop Michael Jordan....just bad, bad basketball right there.

He is an idiot. I would never say that Artest could stop LBJ. That is not what I said.

Where do you get that from? My response would suggest that Artest would not at all stop Lebron James. As I have said previously, despite the crap Cuban spewed against Bayless on First Take...Lebron stopped himself. Point blank period. The Heat lost because Lebron stopped trying and the Mavs were relentless and not intimidated.

The Heat lost because of the combination of LBJ not being aggressive/effective in the post AND that Dallas' defense was better than Oklahoma City's.

It wasn't simply one or the other. That is an oversimplification.

The Lebron of this year could not be stopped by Artest, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper...no damn body! He is a power forward with point guard speed and he has opened his game even more. But most important, he was NEVER intimidated by any person...he was intimidated by the moment.

Cool. LBJ was stopped by a team last year. Not a single person. OKC played him individually until it was far too late.

That no longer happens...so when it is time to step up his game, could Artest present a hindrance, sure...could he affect Lebron negatively to the point that Lebron would not impact the game as he usually does? No. Hell no.

Artest could hinder every facet of LBJ's game. Could Artest COMPLETELY take away LBJ's effectiveness? No. But he certainly can hinder his productivity in every way at LEAST slightly. Not to mention the turnovers.

Lebron is a better player in every facet of the game than Artest in his prime. But ask yourself this in relation to James vs. Artest...what would Lebron do to Artest? Would Artest be less effective in games with James guarding him? Yes. Jermaine couldn't carry a team on that level, and the supporting cast was not good enough to pick up the flack for one of the main players on the team in Artest's lack of performance on the offensive end.

Reggie Miller and Al Harrington are better offensive options than all but 3 players on the entire Miami team. Again, you are oversimplifying.

If the 2004 Pacers give the Heat problems...it is because of one guy and one guy only...Rick Carlisle.

You can't beat Miami on talent alone. That is impossible.

You beat them with out-smarting/out-coaching them.

Carlisle HAS shown that he can out-coach Erik Spoelstra and defeat his team in a series where Spo has 2 of the 3 best players and the 2 best players on the court.