OT: Sammy Sosa's skin

[JosMin]

It's not an argument, but believing that athletes don't take things "they aren't supposed to" in order to get over small injuries and the long back-to-back stretches is foolish. It's not a matter of trolling. If you're trying to tell me for one second that the '05 Sox having zero injuries and the fact that they really didn't have to dip into their bullpen during the World Series didn't help them... again, that sounds like denial.

I'm not trying to downplay the fact that they won a World Series. In all honesty, I was excited for Sox fans, I cheered right along with them. It was fantastic to see. But their one World Series versus Sosa's historical stretch in Chicago is a push, at worst, in my eyes. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[brett05]

World series trumps any single achievement. That's why the game is played

 

[JosMin]

World series trumps any single achievement. That's why the game is played

Well if that's the case, then everyone needs to get off my dick about feeling that Bill Russell is the second greatest player of all-time. He was the best player on a Celtics team that won 11 rings.

 

[brett05]

Russell was great and I think he's in the conversation for sure

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

World series trumps any single achievement. That's why the game is played

But you have to be successful as a player and a team to get to that achievement.

Which can lead to 50 different conversations about this topic.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

The point most of us are trying to make here.. is that its stupid that you guys put the "winning it all" thing.. yeah as a team that's your goal.

As an individual player you must be good in the first place to be part of a team that gets that goal.

So in the context of a player of that caliber that is a user. During that timeframe. (Which to almost every caliber there were many many many users in that era)

You can't honestly tell me then.. That hypothetically if a lot of any certain team that you were rooting for won a world series.. then after the fact.. they we're using..

What would you feel then? Wouldn't that be tainted? Cause individual success is similar to team success in that manner. Such is the manner of the sport.

 

[brett05]

Just a successful team. Not as an individual

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Just a successful team. Not as an individual

You didn't answer my hypothetical

 

[Mr. Cub]

The way I look at it is if everyone was using them, then Sosa, Mcgwire, Bonds and all the other great players of that era were still better players than everyone else. I mean their numbers were way better than anyone else. So take PED's away and you get what? Sosa hitting maybe 40-45 HR's while some other wonder who once hit 40 would be hitting like 17? They are still better players in general.

 

[DewsSox79]

It's not an argument, but believing that athletes don't take things "they aren't supposed to" in order to get over small injuries and the long back-to-back stretches is foolish. It's not a matter of trolling. If you're trying to tell me for one second that the '05 Sox having zero injuries and the fact that they really didn't have to dip into their bullpen during the World Series didn't help them... again, that sounds like denial.

I'm not trying to downplay the fact that they won a World Series. In all honesty, I was excited for Sox fans, I cheered right along with them. It was fantastic to see. But their one World Series versus Sosa's historical stretch in Chicago is a push, at worst, in my eyes. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

are you a giant homer?! There is no way that a single player being great is >>>>>> than or even a push to a championship.

zero injuries?

Frank Thomas says hi.
Dustin Hermanson
Tadahito Iguchi

Just to name a few.

MB- 236 IP
JC- 204 IP
FG- 228 IP
OH- 128 IP
JG- 221 IP

They must have been cheating, I mean 200 innings, it has to be PEDS.

go away

 

[nwfisch]

are you a giant homer?! There is no way that a single player being great is >>>>>> than or even a push to a championship.

zero injuries?

Frank Thomas says hi.
Dustin Hermanson
Tadahito Iguchi

Just to name a few.

MB- 236 IP
JC- 204 IP
FG- 228 IP
OH- 128 IP
JG- 221 IP

They must have been cheating, I mean 200 innings, it has to be PEDS.

go away

If anyone had the choice of Sammy Sosa or their team winning the World Series, I would hope they would take the World Series.

 

[DewsSox79]

If anyone had the choice of Sammy Sosa or their team winning the World Series, I would hope they would take the World Series.

I agree and that is the point. I dont get how someone can say that sosas homeruns are better or a push to a title. It is just homerism at its finest.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Pretty much the point on that.

Don't tell someone to go away just because they disagree with you though. Thanks.

We need to keep posters.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

I still think there's a bigger discussion to be had about how baseball fans will view the PED era in the future..

 

[Rice Cube]

I agree and that is the point. I dont get how someone can say that sosas homeruns are better or a push to a title. It is just homerism at its finest.

I don't think we said that we preferred fun to a World Series...if it were the Cubs that won the World Series, that would have been loads of fun to watch. As has been the joke for the past century, the Cubs haven't actually won a World Series so the only fun most of us have is in watching good players like Sammy Sosa kill baseballs. Sure it would've been great if they hadn't choked away the NLCS against the Marlins in 2003, but that still doesn't negate the fun we had when Sammy was still good. I think it's fine to separate the joy you have as a fan following one player and the joy you have if your favorite team wins it all.

I'm sure the White Sox championship would be a lot more fun than Sosa if I actually had an emotional investment in the Sox, though.

 

[ZDemp34]

the final outcome of the 05 world series trumps everything sosa did by a long shot. if you are into individual stats, so be it.

Sammy Sosa was a better power hitter than any individual on the 05 Sox. Too bad there weren't enough other great players to win a WS, but so be it. I would definitely take a World Series over Sammy Sosa's individual performance, but we got what we got and it was fun to watch, that's my only point.

 

[DewsSox79]

Sammy Sosa was a better power hitter than any individual on the 05 Sox. Too bad there weren't enough other great players to win a WS, but so be it. I would definitely take a World Series over Sammy Sosa's individual performance, but we got what we got and it was fun to watch, that's my only point.

which does nothing to the final destination.

I would take frank thomas all day long over cheater boy

 

[brett05]

Hypothetical. Bobby Jenna did roids in 2005. That would stink but not change what the team did.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

That's a small tarnish.. what I'm getting at is totally hypothetical at this point..

Forget exact teams, years.. Just in pure hypothetical terms..

Let's say you have 2 middle of the order hitters and several pitchers that used in a season that ends up with a championship.

If we going on the idea that we wouldn't want to regard one player of his achievement.. Couldn't the same be said for integral parts of a team? Wouldn't that be tarnished?

That's what I'm trying to get an answer from. Leave actual teams out because this is just an exercise.

 

[ZDemp34]

which does nothing to the final destination.

I would take frank thomas all day long over Chicago's best power hitter

Fixed.

And that actually is my final destination, I'm not sure what yours is but it ain't mine.