Pauline: Bears interested in QB DiNucci

[rawdawg]

Well yeah obviously teams want QB's like Mahomes and Rodgers but as you said those guys are hard to find. Nobody thought either one of those two were gonna be anything close to what they are so you also have to have some luck involved with the QB's you draft. If you have a system and coaches that just fit perfect with the guy you draft and he can get through the mental part of making it in the NFL, which is the biggest part that nobody can predict with these kids, then things just click and everything just works. But until you find a guy like that then you can do exactly what the Chiefs did and have a game manager type like A.Smith starting for you and make playoff runs and even make some noise in the playoffs. If Mahomes didn't show out for the Chiefs then they would of kept Smith.

Mahomes had 1 decent start in Week 17, before they got rid of Smith. They traded up from the 20s to the top 10 to take Mahomes, the plan was 100% always to get rid of Smith, because he was a game manager who wasn't good enough to take them to a ring. Packers got rid of Brett Favre when he could still somewhat play. You can't say nobody knew what those guys would be, when the teams that drafted damn well knew they'd be good, which is why they drafted them and got rid of winning QBs so they could play.

 

[dabears70]

Mahomes had 1 decent start in Week 17, before they got rid of Smith. They traded up from the 20s to the top 10 to take Mahomes, the plan was 100% always to get rid of Smith, because he was a game manager who wasn't good enough to take them to a ring. Packers got rid of Brett Favre when he could still somewhat play. You can't say nobody knew what those guys would be, when the teams that drafted damn well knew they'd be good, which is why they drafted them and got rid of winning QBs so they could play.

But they had plenty of practice time with Mahomes as well to make a good judgement on the kid and A.Reid is probably the best QB guru in the NFL. Every QB that plays for him produces to some good level.

If teams knew Rodgers and Mahomes would be that good they wouldn't of gone where they did. You don't let great QB's slide especially as far as Rodgers did. Not saying they didn't think they'd be good or they wouldn't drafted them and traded up to do it but no way they knew they'd be hall of fame level great or they would of done more to trade up even higher to get them.

 

[rawdawg]

But they had plenty of practice time with Mahomes as well to make a good judgement on the kid and A.Reid is probably the best QB guru in the NFL. Every QB that plays for him produces to some good level.

If teams knew Rodgers and Mahomes would be that good they wouldn't of gone where they did. You don't let great QB's slide especially as far as Rodgers did. Not saying they didn't think they'd be good or they wouldn't drafted them and traded up to do it but no way they knew they'd be hall of fame level great or they would of done more to trade up even higher to get them.

I didn't say "TEAMS" knew they'd be this good, as in every team. But KC knew Mahomes would be this good. GB knew Rodgers would be this good. The teams that picked them knew they'd be good, or they wouldn't have traded away a former #1 pick with nearly 60 wins in 5 years and a Hall of Famer, respectively. That's all that matters. They weren't moving on from Mike Glennon. It took a substantial amount of risk to even use an early pick on a QB when the rest of the world sees you have a perennial playoff QB on your roster. Sure it takes a little bit of luck, but it's damn sure a skill to identify, draft and develop a great QB.

 

[dabears70]

I didn't say "TEAMS" knew they'd be this good, as in every team. But KC knew Mahomes would be this good. GB knew Rodgers would be this good. The teams that picked them knew they'd be good, or they wouldn't have traded away a former #1 pick with nearly 60 wins in 5 years and a Hall of Famer, respectively. That's all that matters. They weren't moving on from Mike Glennon. It took a substantial amount of risk to even use an early pick on a QB when the rest of the world sees you have a perennial playoff QB on your roster. Sure it takes a little bit of luck, but it's damn sure a skill to identify, draft and develop a great QB.

Okay so we agree to disagree.

So KC and GB knew Mahomes and Rodgers were gonna be super bowl winning HOF type QB's but took the chance of letting them fall to #10 and #24 in their drafts. Sounds odd but okay.

 

[rawdawg]

Okay so we agree to disagree.

So KC and GB knew Mahomes and Rodgers were gonna be super bowl winning HOF type QB's but took the chance of letting them fall to #10 and #24 in their drafts. Sounds odd but okay.

Your comment doesn't contain any logic. If someone told Ryan Pace without a shadow of a doubt, Jordan Love would be a HOF QB when he was done playing, he wouldn't trade up to #1 because frankly, he wouldn't have to. Burrow's going 1. Two other QBs are going before Love. You trade up to where you need to get to take Love. Not to mention the simple fact that it costs more to trade up to #1. KC didn't have to trade up to 1 for Mahomes, which is good, because they wouldn't have been able to because they originally were picking 25th or something. They traded up to where they had to go to get him and STILL took him over Watson, which was questionable. You don't think they knew Mahomes was gonna be good? Or that they could make him so?

I mean, we're basically arguing semantics at this point. But every single draft pick that is ever made is made by people that think the player being picked can turn out to reach their maximum potential. You can't dismiss a pick as, "oh they didn't know he'd be this good" or else they wouldn't have picked him. Throw in the fact that the teams you are doubting went with their young QBs over QBs that were leading perennial playoff teams, your point has 0 legs to stand on.

 

[Bearly]

I didn't say "TEAMS" knew they'd be this good, as in every team. But KC knew Mahomes would be this good. GB knew Rodgers would be this good. The teams that picked them knew they'd be good, or they wouldn't have traded away a former #1 pick with nearly 60 wins in 5 years and a Hall of Famer, respectively. That's all that matters. They weren't moving on from Mike Glennon. It took a substantial amount of risk to even use an early pick on a QB when the rest of the world sees you have a perennial playoff QB on your roster. Sure it takes a little bit of luck, but it's damn sure a skill to identify, draft and develop a great QB.

They did not 'know' or they would have trade up further like 20 other teams. Still deserve kudos for the move as they obviously liked him but they also had a year to make that decision on Smith. Reid loved Mahomes and it was their intention for Mahomes to be good, like any QB picked that high but they didn't 'know' he'd be this good. Doesn't minimize their moves one bit.

 

[dabears70]

Your comment doesn't contain any logic. If someone told Ryan Pace without a shadow of a doubt, Jordan Love would be a HOF QB when he was done playing, he wouldn't trade up to #1 because frankly, he wouldn't have to. Burrow's going 1. Two other QBs are going before Love. You trade up to where you need to get to take Love. Not to mention the simple fact that it costs more to trade up to #1. KC didn't have to trade up to 1 for Mahomes, which is good, because they wouldn't have been able to because they originally were picking 25th or something. They traded up to where they had to go to get him and STILL took him over Watson, which was questionable. You don't think they knew Mahomes was gonna be good? Or that they could make him so?

I mean, we're basically arguing semantics at this point. But every single draft pick that is ever made is made by people that think the player being picked can turn out to reach their maximum potential. You can't dismiss a pick as, "oh they didn't know he'd be this good" or else they wouldn't have picked him. Throw in the fact that the teams you are doubting went with their young QBs over QBs that were leading perennial playoff teams, your point has 0 legs to stand on.

Okay but you went from them "Knowing" someone will be good to them "Thinking" someone will be good and there's a big difference.

This debate is going nowhere and we obviously have different views on the draft with you thinking GM's know what a player will be and me thinking nobody, not even GM's, know what any player will be but.....semantics.

 

[dabears70]

They did not 'know' or they would have trade up further like 20 other teams. Still deserve kudos for the move as they obviously liked him but they also had a year to make that decision on Smith. Reid loved Mahomes and it was their intention for Mahomes to be good, like any QB picked that high but they didn't 'know' he'd be this good. Doesn't minimize their moves one bit.

Well said.

They obviously get kudos for drafting him and they wouldn't of drafted him if they didn't believe in him but there's no way they thought they were getting what they got from the kid.

 

[TexasBearfan]

keep in mind the NFL draft profile ratings are really shitty...but Trubisky I think was a 6.31, which is higher than a lot of the QB's in this draft, I think Watson was under 6.......trubisky's comp was Matt Stafford.....Love's comp is Blake Bortles and his rating is 6.36

IMO Trubisky should have sat and they clearly were dying to see what they had but Fox said he was not ready....a few days ago I watched a Football Life with Steve McNair, he was a number 3 overall pick who sat for 2 years, i think he got a few spot starts because he played behind Crystal Chandelier but i'm not sure where this idea came from that an early pick QB is expected to start immediately and produce. Anyway i think Pace does grab a QB but likely a late round project instead of a number 2 overall project lol

 

[rawdawg]

keep in mind the NFL draft profile ratings are really shitty...but Trubisky I think was a 6.31, which is higher than a lot of the QB's in this draft, I think Watson was under 6.......trubisky's comp was Matt Stafford.....Love's comp is Blake Bortles and his rating is 6.36

IMO Trubisky should have sat and they clearly were dying to see what they had but Fox said he was not ready....a few days ago I watched a Football Life with Steve McNair, he was a number 3 overall pick who sat for 2 years, i think he got a few spot starts because he played behind Crystal Chandelier but i'm not sure where this idea came from that an early pick QB is expected to start immediately and produce. Anyway i think Pace does grab a QB but likely a late round project instead of a number 2 overall project lol

McNair was drafted in 1995. He signed a 7-year contract out of the draft. The Titans had 2 years to sit him, because they still had 5 years to see what he could do. With the rookie scale, teams only have 4 years before paying guys top tier money, either with a 5th year option, franchise tag, or re-signing. That's where the idea comes from. You have to play a pick early because you have limited time with him now.

 

[rawdawg]

They did not 'know' or they would have trade up further like 20 other teams. Still deserve kudos for the move as they obviously liked him but they also had a year to make that decision on Smith. Reid loved Mahomes and it was their intention for Mahomes to be good, like any QB picked that high but they didn't 'know' he'd be this good. Doesn't minimize their moves one bit.

Ok sure, in the literal sense....the Chiefs did not expect Mahomes to be MVP in his first year starting, and the best QB in the league right away. But for them to move way up to draft him with Alex Smith already on the roster, then to move Smith after great success (and just 1 start from Mahomes) shows they knew he would be better than Smith. Alex Smith was a good QB. So a guy better than Alex Smith is obviously a great QB. They knew Mahomes would be great. You guys are arguing if they knew he'd be this level of great, which is not really the point.

 

[KittiesKorner]

I just don't understand why the resident GED GM is arguing this at all, since he has told us time again that nobody, especially not GMs, can predict how a college player is going to perform at the professional level

 

[TexasBearfan]

McNair was drafted in 1995. He signed a 7-year contract out of the draft. The Titans had 2 years to sit him, because they still had 5 years to see what he could do. With the rookie scale, teams only have 4 years before paying guys top tier money, either with a 5th year option, franchise tag, or re-signing. That's where the idea comes from. You have to play a pick early because you have limited time with him now.

what did they gain by running him out there 4 games into Glennon's tenure then changing the coach and entire offense to a highly complex offense that we were told "takes 2 years to learn" which puts him at year 3

 

[Bearly]

Ok sure, in the literal sense....the Chiefs did not expect Mahomes to be MVP in his first year starting, and the best QB in the league right away. But for them to move way up to draft him with Alex Smith already on the roster, then to move Smith after great success (and just 1 start from Mahomes) shows they knew he would be better than Smith. Alex Smith was a good QB. So a guy better than Alex Smith is obviously a great QB. They knew Mahomes would be great. You guys are arguing if they knew he'd be this level of great, which is not really the point.

They knew after he was there a year and hoped he'd be great when drafted. Oakland new Russel would be great. Titans knew Mariota a would be great. TB knew Winston would be so great, they took him with baggage. Bortles, Bradford. Mayfield? It's a fucking draft pick. There are no guarantees, even for geniuses.

 

[rawdawg]

what did they gain by running him out there 4 games into Glennon's tenure then changing the coach and entire offense to a highly complex offense that we were told "takes 2 years to learn" which puts him at year 3

See, this type of thinking is making excuses to why Trubisky failed. When it's just that, an excuse. Trubisky just isn't good. It's not because he played too early. It's not because they switched offenses. It's because he's not good enough. No more. No less. I know Goff isn't great, but his situation was exactly the same. Drafted under a lame duck coach, thrown in as a starter in a lost season. But he got a new coach and went to the Superbowl.

 

[rawdawg]

They knew after he was there a year and hoped he'd be great when drafted. Oakland new Russel would be great. Titans knew Mariota a would be great. TB knew Winston would be so great, they took him with baggage. Bortles, Bradford. Mayfield? It's a fucking draft pick. There are no guarantees, even for geniuses.

The thing that throws this off is those teams picked those guys to save their flailing franchises. They didn't "know". They hoped. They also didn't have the coaching/QB development in place to make that as an informed decision. They didn't have perennial playoff teams and probowl level QBs already on the roster. Again, my entire point has been that it's a special level of "knowing" to get rid of a good QB because you have someone better, when there are so few actual good QBs.

 

[Bearly]

Alex Smith was 34 when he took his 1st snap in Wash and Mahomes became the the KC starter. Of course they needed to draft a QB. This is no different than saying NE knew Brady would be great but waited until the 5th. They had Bledsoe and traded him at 32.

 

[rawdawg]

Alex Smith was 34 when he took his 1st snap in Wash and Mahomes became the the KC starter. Of course they needed to draft a QB. This is no different than saying NE knew Brady would be great but waited until the 5th. They had Bledsoe and traded him at 32.

They didn't need to mortgage the future to trade up to the top 10 and give Mahomes the keys after 1 start in a meaningless week 17 game.

This is completely different from Brady, because he was the 199th pick. They got rid of Bledsoe after he suffered a major injury and after Brady started 17 games and won a Superbowl. The Patriots didn't know Brady would be great at pick 199. The Chiefs knew Mahomes would be great at pick 10, especially when they bent over backwards to get there from pick 24. They didn't just pick based on their draft board for Mahomes. They wanted Mahomes. And did everything they could to get him and him specifically.

 

[Bearly]

It is different but mentioned for perspective. When your QB is 33 and no superstar, you make that move if you think he can be a good one after a year of training. Of course they like him and thought he'd turn out but nobody 'knows'. Mahomes' field smarts couldn't be properly evaluated before the draft. Interviews won't tell he can do it on the field and his play in that system, while great, certainly didn't show it. He's a pick and there is always a roll of the dice involved. What you're proposing is that Reid also knew no one else would go get him before 10. He's not physic. He fell to a point that Reid was willing to get to and he made the move. Look, I know they really liked him and planned for it to work out this way in the draft and his play but it's still a draft pick and they interviewed other top QBs because they were in the market whether Mahomes was there or not. They liked Mahomes a lot / the most but they were looking.

Look, Mitch may be making great reads in the classroom but he's never shown it on a field. Either had Mahomes when drafted. Smith was also old, VG but not special and a product of a great system.

 

[TexasBearfan]

See, this type of thinking is making excuses to why Trubisky failed. When it's just that, an excuse. Trubisky just isn't good. It's not because he played too early. It's not because they switched offenses. It's because he's not good enough. No more. No less. I know Goff isn't great, but his situation was exactly the same. Drafted under a lame duck coach, thrown in as a starter in a lost season. But he got a new coach and went to the Superbowl.

see, this type of thinking is making excuses for why Brees failed. When it's just that, an excuse. Brees just isn't good.