Peter Gammons: "it's a dump, Wrigley Field."

[EnjoyYourTiger]

That would be 2015, they won't wait that long. Moves can be made this offseason and the team will be just fine. I mean if you let Ramirez go you only have 72 million locked up in contracts for next year (Sori, Z, Demp, Byrd, Marmol, Marshall) Then you have a few big name Arby guys (Soto and Garza) that will probably run you around 13 million so that puts you at 85 million. Then your smaller arby cases (Baker, Hill, Wells and Dewitt) probably wont be more than 5 million total. So now we are at 90 million. Then your league min guys (Castro, Barney, Cashner, Colvin, Mateo, Russell) so thats 3 million so you are at 93 million with 7 spots left. No way we only spend like 22 million on those 7 and end up with a 115 million dollar payroll. Even if you add Aramis you are only sitting at 107 million with 6 spots left.

The only holes there are then 1B, 2B and RF. Even on a smaller budget a big name FA should be signed. 2013 is even cheaper with the only players signed on for that year are Soriano and Marmol.

This is Ricketts first chance to be active in FA, and after this year I imagine he will be. Even on a 120 million dollar budget we should have room for Fielder.

I am by no means Ricketts biggest fan, but we have to give the guy at least a chance before calling for his head.

So do we try and trade Kosuke and any one else that a contender takes interest in before the trade deadline, let Pena and Ramirez go after this year (their contracts both expire this year, right?), and sign Fielder?

I still think a Barney/ Baker platoon at 2B isn't terrible. It's not my first choice, obviously, but there really isn't a better option currently.

 

[poodski]

I really can't see the Cubs payroll going that high. I really think Rickett's goal for the short term is get this team around 90-95 million for the next few seasons. Get the system fixed and rolling then start spending money. At least that SHOULD be the plan. I really don't think it's wise with all the issues the Cubs organization and facilities have to go spending anywhere over 100 million in payroll for the near future.

Guess I am just a homer then.

I will be floored if its below 120.

 

[FirstTimer]

I will be floored if its below 120.

Look, I won't be shocked if the Cubs spend big this off season. I just don't think it would be a wise move. This team isn't one addition away from being a contender. The sooner the FO realizes this acts like it and works on things like the farm system, upgrading facilities, etc to make ourselves more attractive to big time players when the team is ready, the better.

It doesn't make you a "homer". I just disagree with that you think the Cubs will/should do.

Do you think that the Cubs spending to $120 million in payroll is wise/a good idea?

 

[poodski]

So do we try and trade Kosuke and any one else that a contender takes interest in before the trade deadline, let Pena and Ramirez go after this year (their contracts both expire this year, right?), and sign Fielder?

I still think a Barney/ Baker platoon at 2B isn't terrible. It's not my first choice, obviously, but there really isn't a better option currently.

Most likely. I wouldn't mind trying to resign Fukudome on the cheap something like 2 years 8 million or something. I mean he gets on base at a ridiculous rate, our leadoff hitters have the highest OBP in the majors (bet you didnt know that) at .401, and yet have scored the 11th least amount of runs in the majors.

Our 2, 3 and 4 hitters are all in the bottom 10. Castro just is not performing in the 3 hole, Barney sucks, and Aramis well he speaks for himself. This team is really just a few people away from being contenders again, I would hate to see them just not do anything next year. A lineup of:

Fukudome
Castro
Fielder
Soto
Kelly Johnson
Soriano
Barney/Baker
Byrd or Jackson

really wouldn't be too bad, and could probably be done pretty cheap. Hell you could probably get Michael Young for decently cheap. I bet a few prospects could get them to eat 12-15 million of his remaining salary.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

The proposed plan had him going in for around $200 million on the surrounding neighborhood. $200 =/= to $250

Way to nit pick.

But that's EVEN LESS that he has to come up with himself.

Perhaps Rickett's want to get the whole thing done at once..like it NEEDS to be done?

But it doesn't have to be done all at once. There's no way that it could be, really. I'm no engineer, electrician, contractor, but working on electrical wiring while steel is being welded, doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

I again point back to the last few pages. If he did have it why risk going public and being made a boogy man for looking for state funds which in most people's minds=taxes and taxes=bad. It's a lose-lose proposition. It makeshim look like he can't afford it and the public hates another millionaire for trying to hike their taxes.

He doesn't have $500 million. It seems like he has $250 million. Which is why he's lobbying for the state to go halvsies with him.

Source.

And I'm sure Rickett's felt at the time that buying a losing ballclub in a shitty stadium was a great way to get a return on that investment!

What?!

Still looking for the article. Maybe someone else can find it. But the basic gist was that he was talking with his dad about how buying the Cubs was a great investment, because Cubs fans would come no matter what.

EDIT: Nevermind, it was JOE Ricketts that said it. But he's an owner too, so I guess it's still worth something.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/chicago-cubs-forum/13817-joe-ricketts-interview-video.html

 

[FirstTimer]

Way to nit pick.

Yeah. $50 million dollars is chump change.

But it doesn't have to be done all at once. There's no way that it could be, really. I'm no engineer, electrician, contractor, but working on electrical wiring while steel is being welded, doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

And trying to re-run electrical before new structural steel is laid and concrete is poured is idiotic. You want sturcture steel to go in first so you know how you have to route exhausts, electrical, grease ducts, etc.

I deal with construction projects and renovations in my line of work on a daily basis. In fact my company has product in the existing Wrigley Field.

He doesn't have $500 million. It seems like he has $250 million.

Based on what? Saying he would use $200 million on the neighborhood and having the state do the $250 for the renovations themselves?

I really don't think you understand what's going on.

The plan was the state uses the bonds and amusement tax funds for the $250 million for the renovations the Ricketts would then invest around $200 million into the neighborhood.

Rickett's isn't matching the state funding. He wanted the state to fund the $250 and he'd fund the $200.

Read the article again.

 

[FirstTimer]

EDIT: Nevermind, it was JOE Ricketts that said it. But he's an owner too, so I guess it's still worth something.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/chicago-cubs-forum/13817-joe-ricketts-interview-video.html

Thanks.

I'll have to watch it here in a bit.

 

[poodski]

Look, I won't be shocked if the Cubs spend big this off season. I just don't think it would be a wise move. This team isn't one addition away from being a contender. The sooner the FO realizes this acts like it and works on things like the farm system, upgrading facilities, etc to make ourselves more attractive to big time players when the team is ready, the better.

It doesn't make you a "homer". I just disagree with that you think the Cubs will/should do.

Do you think that the Cubs spending to $120 million in payroll is wise/a good idea?

Yes I do because I think the team is pretty close. I mean going down position by position the only three positions that have an sOPS+ below 100 are C, 1B, and CF. Soto is just struggling and is just a year removed from being the best offensive catcher in the game. 1B can be fixed with Fielder, and CF can be fixed with Brett Jackson. 2B can still be good with a Barney/Baker platoon, and if we can get Fukudome back on the cheap he is at worst an average offensive RF'er.

As far as pitching goes. Dempster isn't this bad (3.67 ERA since May 1st), Zambrano is decent, and Garza has been pretty good. Plus our other two spots have been filled with injury, and I think they will be fine, and if not McNutt should be ready by opening day to give us a solid 6th starting pitcher.

We have one of the best back end of the bullpens in the majors with Wood, Marshall and Marmol and I bet Wood comes back on the cheap again. MR is a struggle but Samardjiza hasn't been awful and we have a few guys in Gaub, Carpenter and Jackson who should be able to help out next year.

Honestly I think this team is only a 1B and 3B away from competing. Especially if Jackson can be a stud in CF.

 

[FirstTimer]

really wouldn't be too bad, and could probably be done pretty cheap. Hell you could probably get Michael Young for decently cheap. I bet a few prospects could get them to eat 12-15 million of his remaining salary.

I'm not sure that Nolan Ryan and that ownership group with just getting the team purcahsed will be in the mood to eat salary. Plus Young seems to be adjusting fine in Texas.

I really can't see the Cubs being legit contenders for another 5 years at best. Maybe the pull one out of their ass but I also don't see them getting Fielder.

 

[Rice Cube]

The best plan is to build the team from the ground up, around Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. They need to fix the farm after they blew it up to get Matt Garza. If they contend within that time, yay! If not, at least they're building up a solid foundation. They need that foundation or any future with the Cubs as it stands now will be way too bleak to mention.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

Yeah. $50 million dollars is chump change.

I'm not saying it's chump change, I mean for someone who just laid down $900 million dollars, does $50 million seem like that much?

And trying to re-run electrical before new structural steel is laid and concrete is poured is idiotic. You want sturcture steel to go in first so you know how you have to route exhausts, electrical, grease ducts, etc.

I deal with construction projects and renovations in my line of work on a daily basis. In fact my company has product in the existing Wrigley Field.

And didn't I say that I wasn't an expert on this? Yeah, I did. But kudos for knowing something that I couldn't care any less about.

My point was that it doesn't need to all be done at once. And it doesn't. You just proved that. Ricketts can renovate the steal, then pour new concrete, then redo the electrical stuff.

Based on what? Saying he would use $200 million on the neighborhood and having the state do the $250 for the renovations themselves?

I really don't think you understand what's going on.

The plan was the state uses the bonds and amusement tax funds for the $250 million for the renovations the Ricketts would then invest around $200 million into the neighborhood.

Rickett's isn't matching the state funding. He wanted the state to fund the $250 and he'd fund the $200.

Read the article again.

But the state is getting that money back through ticket sales taxes, yes? I guess "matching funding" was a poor phrase choice. It's just a matter of the state not having the $250 million right now and I guess Ricketts not having the $200 million, according to you, either.

So that's the end of this discussion then. Everyone's broke. The state. Ricketts. Me.

No World Series for the Cubbies.

 

[FirstTimer]

Soto is just struggling and is just a year removed from being the best offensive catcher in the game.

Buster Posey laughs at this.

and CF can be fixed with Brett Jackson

Maybe.

As far as pitching goes. Dempster isn't this bad (3.67 ERA since May 1st), Zambrano is decent, and Garza has been pretty good. Plus our other two spots have been filled with injury, and I think they will be fine, and if not McNutt should be ready by opening day to give us a solid 6th starting pitcher.

I'm not high on McNutt at all.

And I don't think we get Fielder. IMO he has better options.


You're REALLY high on this team, which is fine I guess, but I just don't see it.

Castro is a really really nice player but I don't think he's AS great as people make him out to be.

3B is an issue. 2B I don't mind Baker and Barney. I actually like trying to get Fukudome back for cheap. He isn't what we thought he was when we signed him, but he's turned into a really nice leadoff hitter the last two years and is very solid in RF.

Brett Jackson is an unknown who I reserve judgement on until we see him up..hopefully this season.

The Cubs right now have about 3 #2-#3 starters on the roster, which is fine I guess but I don't view as being playoff series winning caliber.

I like Marmol as a closer but aren't as enamored with Wood and Marshall as you are.

I just think after all the bad paper the Cubs have thrown around recently that they would be better served to go young, acquire assets in what appears to be an improving farm system and fix Wrigley, get the All-Star game in 2016 and move forward from there.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

You're REALLY high on this team, which is fine I guess, but I just don't see it.

Castro is a really really nice player but I don't think he's AS great as people make him out to be.

3B is an issue. 2B I don't mind Baker and Barney. I actually like trying to get Fukudome back for cheap. He isn't what we thought he was when we signed him, but he's turned into a really nice leadoff hitter the last two years and is very solid in RF.

Brett Jackson is an unknown who I reserve judgement on until we see him up..hopefully this season.

The Cubs right now have about 3 #2-#3 starters on the roster, which is fine I guess but I don't view as being playoff series winning caliber.

I like Marmol as a closer but aren't as enamored with Wood and Marshall as you are.

I just think after all the bad paper the Cubs have thrown around recently that they would be better served to go young, acquire assets in what appears to be an improving farm system and fix Wrigley, get the All-Star game in 2016 and move forward from there.

I don't think Poods is that far off.
I think getting Fonzie off the books would help.
Byrd in CF isn't great, but it's not terrible. I'm excited to see Jackson.
Kosuke in RF for cheap would be solid.
We need a 3B. End of story.
Castro is good. He just needs to develop more patience and quit double clutching so damn much.
Barney/ Baker platoon is good enough.
We need a 1B. Unless Pena magically starts hitting a HR a game. He's good enough for the time being, I suppose.
Geo is solid. Koyie needs to be let go.
We really just need middle relief. Our back three is arguably the best in baseball. Marshall is just going through a patch. He had one last year and bounced back.
Marmol is Marmol.

But I also think we could start contending around 2013. Or at the very least not lose eight straight games and be ten games back of .500 by the middle of June.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm not saying it's chump change, I mean for someone who just laid down $900 million dollars, does $50 million seem like that much?

Yes. Because you just spent $900 million. It's like asking if you just spent $115k on a house why didn't you spend another $50k? You just spent $115k!

And it's not just another $50, it another $50 on top of another $200.

The debt to equity ratio obviously wasn't working out.

I really highly doubt Rickett's goes to the state for funding if he truly doesn't need it.

My point was that it doesn't need to all be done at once. And it doesn't. You just proved that. Ricketts can renovate the steal, then pour new concrete, then redo the electrical stuff.

How do you plan on routing the flues, and electrical THROUGH THE CONCRETE?

For example, they want to install kitchens at Wrigley. Which will require among a host of other things, grease duct exhaust. If they pour the concrete before the exhaust is in then they have to come back in and work with incredibley tight space constraints in regards to getting the exhaust flues laid. If the spaces they left aren't large enough for the flue to fit into and allow the exahsut to draft correctly how do you propose they widen the space with the concrete installed?

A mid-project change like that would potentially cost millions...and that's just for THAT aspect. Let alone issues with electrical, where there are more codes than you even want to know about.

Rickett's is smart to have the whole thing done at once and done correctly.

Forrest from the trees there Gump.

But the state is getting that money back through ticket sales taxes, yes? I guess "matching funding" was a poor phrase choice. It's just a matter of the state not having the $250 million right now and I guess Ricketts not having the $200 million, according to you, either.

Rickett's must have access to the lines of equity for the 200 but not enough for the 250, or the whole 450-500 to make the entire renovation happen.

 

[poodski]

Buster Posey laughs at this.

He might but Soto was actually the best offensive catcher in 2010: Major League Leaderboards

I'm not high on McNutt at all.

I see no reason not to be. He has been very good at every stop of the way, and is fairly young. He's only 21 tearing up AA.

And I don't think we get Fielder. IMO he has better options.

I would like to hear these options.

You're REALLY high on this team, which is fine I guess, but I just don't see it.

Not really I just posted that only three spots on this team offensively are below average. 40% of our pitching staff has been on the DL, and our opening day starter forgot how to pitch for a month.

Castro is a really really nice player but I don't think he's AS great as people make him out to be.

I agree with this but he is still an above average offensive shortstop. He just should not be in the 3 hole. I think he will be a fine leadoff or number two guy, but he is not a 3-4-5 hitter.

Brett Jackson is an unknown who I reserve judgement on until we see him up..hopefully this season.

Yes he is an unknown, but I still think he will be league average at best. The only issue would be between him Castro and Fukudome we have three top of the order guys where none should be hitting three. Jackson would go well hitting 8th especially with his discipline.

The Cubs right now have about 3 #2-#3 starters on the roster, which is fine I guess but I don't view as being playoff series winning caliber.

I'd argue we have 5 number 2-3 starters. Well might be a 4, but still we have a pretty good pitching staff without a real ace or a real weak starter. And the playoffs are completely a crap shoot, all that matters is getting there.

I like Marmol as a closer but aren't as enamored with Wood and Marshall as you are.

Why? They have an ERA+ of 181 and 197. That's pretty amazing.

I just think after all the bad paper the Cubs have thrown around recently that they would be better served to go young, acquire assets in what appears to be an improving farm system and fix Wrigley, get the All-Star game in 2016 and move forward from there.

The fanbase has tasted victory and its not going to stand around like it did in the 80's. These aren't the lovable losers anymore. 2003 changed everything for good and for bad. Not competing for 7 years is pretty insane, and in no way will happen. This team has had a top 5 payroll and going to a Pirates like payroll just isn't going to fly with the fanbase anymore.

 

[FirstTimer]

He might but Soto was actually the best offensive catcher in 2010: Major League Leaderboards

That link proves nothing to me.

Offensively I'd rather have about 4-5 catchers over Soto.

I see no reason not to be. He has been very good at every stop of the way, and is fairly young. He's only 21 tearing up AA.

Can't stay healthy so far this year and I still have this feeling he ends up in the bullpen ala Papelbon. He gives me a REALLy similar feel. Power 3 pitch guy etc.

I would like to hear these options.

Milwaukee, Baltimore, a trendy one is Toronto, but I'm not sold there. Dollars to donuts he ends back up in Milwaukee.

I can't see the Cubs being able to make that great of a pitch to him.

Not really I just posted that only three spots on this team offensively are below average. 40% of our pitching staff has been on the DL, and our opening day starter forgot how to pitch for a month.

I meant going forward................................

I'd argue we have 5 number 2-3 starters. Well might be a 4, but still we have a pretty good pitching staff without a real ace or a real weak starter. And the playoffs are completely a crap shoot, all that matters is getting there.

While that's true in some cases if any part of the Cubs plan involves this line of thinking I'd hedge my bets on it.

Why? They have an ERA+ of 181 and 197. That's pretty amazing.

I'm waiting for the wheels to fall off Wood and honestly they haven't pitched in amny meaningful situations. The ERA+ stat is nice but it hasn't really meant much and dependent on how those guys respond to more pressure packed situations it could swing wildly.

Not competing for 7 years is pretty insane

I never said 7 years, so no idea where you pull that from.

This team has had a top 5 payroll and going to a Pirates like payroll just isn't going to fly with the fanbase anymore.

I'm not suggesting to dropping to the Pirates level of payroll(<50 million). I'm talking about 90-95 would be smart for the long term. Maybe around 100. You're talking about teams like Texas, Atlanta, St Louis, the Dodgers that were in that range give or take before this season.

I just can't see, or think, the Cubs only cutting payroll by around $5 million to $120 being a plausible solution given what Rickett's wants to do with Wrigley and the issues this team has had at the gates this season.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

Yes. Because you just spent $900 million. It's like asking if you just spent $115k on a house why didn't you spend another $50k? You just spent $115k!

And it's not just another $50, it another $50 on top of another $200.

The debt to equity ratio obviously wasn't working out.

I really highly doubt Rickett's goes to the state for funding if he truly doesn't need it.

I suppose. But I'm also not a millionaire.

How do you plan on routing the flues, and electrical THROUGH THE CONCRETE?

For example, they want to install kitchens at Wrigley. Which will require among a host of other things, grease duct exhaust. If they pour the concrete before the exhaust is in then they have to come back in and work with incredibley tight space constraints in regards to getting the exhaust flues laid. If the spaces they left aren't large enough for the flue to fit into and allow the exahsut to draft correctly how do you propose they widen the space with the concrete installed?

A mid-project change like that would potentially cost millions...and that's just for THAT aspect. Let alone issues with electrical, where there are more codes than you even want to know about.

Rickett's is smart to have the whole thing done at once and done correctly.

Forrest from the trees there Gump.

Again, like I said, I don't know about/ care about that stuff. It's great you do. Someone needs to fix my electricity when it goes out.

Fine. It can't all be done at once. But would it be safe to say he can renovate Wrigley with $200 million that I'm not even sure if he has at all and just wait on the whole investing in the neighborhood?

Rickett's must have access to the lines of equity for the 200 but not enough for the 250, or the whole 450-500 to make the entire renovation happen.

So it's going to cost upwards of $450 million to renovate Wrigley? Or is that Including all the neighborhood stuff.

 

[FirstTimer]

Again, like I said, I don't know about/ care about that stuff.

You should, because it's shit that needs to happen in renvoations.

Fine. It can't all be done at once.

LOL wut?! I'll assume you made a typo here.

But would it be safe to say he can renovate Wrigley with $200 million that I'm not even sure if he has at all and just wait on the whole investing in the neighborhood?

If Wrigley could be renovated for just $200 why would he ask the state to bond between $250-300?

I would label that as "unsafe" to say.

So it's going to cost upwards of $450 million to renovate Wrigley? Or is that Including all the neighborhood stuff.

Going by the figures in that article that $450 includes the neighborhood.

Read the article brah.

 

[poodski]

That link proves nothing to me.

Offensively I'd rather have about 4-5 catchers over Soto.

I would rather have several other catchers as well, but in 2010 he was the best offensive catcher. Period. There really isn't any debate to that.

Can't stay healthy so far this year and I still have this feeling he ends up in the bullpen ala Papelbon. He gives me a REALLy similar feel. Power 3 pitch guy etc.

We shall see.

Milwaukee, Baltimore, a trendy one is Toronto, but I'm not sold there. Dollars to donuts he ends back up in Milwaukee.

I can't see the Cubs being able to make that great of a pitch to him.

Baltimore is interesting. I don't see anyway he stays in Milwaukee after the deal they just gave Braun. I am not sure why he would want to go to the AL East to be honest. I still think the Cubs are the best fit for him.

I'm waiting for the wheels to fall off Wood and honestly they haven't pitched in amny meaningful situations. The ERA+ stat is nice but it hasn't really meant much and dependent on how those guys respond to more pressure packed situations it could swing wildly.

They have eached pitched in a decent amount of pressure situations. Marshall has done quite well in those, Wood has not.

I would post these numbers, but I am not allowed to.

I never said 7 years, so no idea where you pull that from.

You said 2016 WS, thought that was what you meant.

I'm not suggesting to dropping to the Pirates level of payroll(<50 million). I'm talking about 90-95 would be smart for the long term. Maybe around 100. You're talking about teams like Texas, Atlanta, St Louis, the Dodgers that were in that range give or take before this season.

I just can't see, or think, the Cubs only cutting payroll by around $5 million to $120 being a plausible solution given what Rickett's wants to do with Wrigley and the issues this team has had at the gates this season.

I guess the only way to see on this is what happens this offseason.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

You should, because it's shit that needs to happen in renvoations.

Well, considering I'm going to grad school for Theology. I'll let someone else handle that stuff.

LOL wut?! I'll assume you made a typo here.

Yes. I meant to say that it all can be done at once.

If Wrigley could be renovated for just $200 why would he ask the state to bond between $250-300?

I would label that as "unsafe" to say.

Going by the figures in that article that $450 includes the neighborhood.

Read the article brah.

TELL ME TO READ IT AGAIN, FIRST TIMER. YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ME TO READ IT ENOUGH TIMES YET, ******.