Polian on the cost of JG today

[WindyCity]

Weeks ago I had much more faith in Polian's opinions on QB's now I would not base a Bears QB acquisition on a Polian opinion. For this reason I am backing off Jimmy G as my first choice for the Bears QB option. I also recall a poster writing that McCarron has a bad personality and given Jay's personality issues I cant see the Bears taking a chance with someone whose personality is sketchy for a QB who needs to be the team leader.

I went on a Bengals board and they seem to think he has matured. They actually raved about his intangibles since arriving in Cincinnati.

McCarron for 3(67)
Garopollo for 2(36)
Or draft Watson, Kizer, Trubisky 1(3)

I am okay with any of the above.

 

[Noonthirtyjoe]

I went on a Bengals board and they seem to think he has matured. They actually raved about his intangibles since arriving in Cincinnati.

I've checked both boards out (NE/Cin). Both boards think highly of their guys. Both fan bases think their guy is starter quality.

 

[PeterMbangala]

I went on a Bengals board and they seem to think he has matured. They actually raved about his intangibles since arriving in Cincinnati.

I've checked both boards out (NE/Cin). Both boards think highly of their guys. Both fan bases think their guy is starter quality.

Only downside with that is that a lot of our board thought Barkley was starter quality a few months ago.

 

[Matt Suhey]

I went on a Bengals board and they seem to think he has matured. They actually raved about his intangibles since arriving in Cincinnati.

McCarron for 3(67)
Garopollo for 2(36)
Or draft Watson, Kizer, Trubisky 1(3)

I am okay with any of the above.

The best combo of intelligence, other intangibles and accuracy are my two top profile traits for a QB. Given that I its easier to fix a guy's footwork and other QB techniques than it is to fix a guy's personality I still would back off on AJM. As far as my preferences this draft as hard as I have tried I cannot get past my gut feeling that Mahomes is going to be a great NFL QB and the best in this draft. My intuition at times feels like it is screaming at me in my head about this so I will not be at all surprised if Mahomes hits a home run in the interview process and his value on drafts boards goes screaming up the charts maybe even into the top slot for some teams. Many feel Mahomes has the highest ceiling of any QB in this draft. If his interviews raises his perceived floor his overall QB rankings by many draft experts and scouts is going to shoot up. Trubisky's height, hand size and interviews will also affect how myself but more importantly the real experts perceive Trubisky's ranking. The problem with Kizer and Watson is that a great interview for either of these guys will not offset their questionable judgment calls in their last college season IMHO as much as a great interview would help both Mahomes and Trubisky in their rankings.

With that in mind my top QB preferences for our Bears are Mahomes, Jimmy G. and Trubisky.

 

[PeterMbangala]

The best combo of intelligence, other intangibles and accuracy are my two top profile traits for a QB. Given that I its easier to fix a guy's footwork and other QB techniques than it is to fix a guy's personality I still would back off on AJM. As far as my preferences this draft as hard as I have tried I cannot get past my gut feeling that Mahomes is going to be a great NFL QB and the best in this draft. My intuition at times feels like it is screaming at me in my head about this so I will not be at all surprised if Mahomes hits a home run in the interview process and his value on drafts boards goes screaming up the charts maybe even into the top slot for some teams. Many feel Mahomes has the highest ceiling of any QB in this draft. If his interviews raises his perceived floor his overall QB rankings by many draft experts and scouts is going to shoot up. Trubisky's height, hand size and interviews will also affect how myself but more importantly the real experts perceive Trubisky's ranking. The problem with Kizer and Watson is that a great interview for either of these guys will not offset their questionable judgment calls in their last college season IMHO as much as a great interview would help both Mahomes and Trubisky in their rankings.

With that in mind my top QB preferences for our Bears are Mahomes, Jimmy G. and Trubisky.

Mahomes comes with the added bonus of getting Fox fired next season.

 

[Matt Suhey]

Mahomes comes with the added bonus of getting Fox fired next season.

I have to agree that is a major major perk of this pick. However if they do go that route two things probably go with it, one Hoyer gets resigned as a bridge QB and it could also very well be Pace's way of making a power play to establish his power over Fox in one way or the other.

 

[PeterMbangala]

I have to agree that is a major major perk of this pick. However if they do go that route two things probably go with it, one Hoyer gets resigned as a bridge QB and it could also very well be Pace's way of making a power play to establish his power over Fox in one way or the other.

Yeah, we'd be rolling with...

Hoyer
Shaw/Barkley
Mahomes

Even allowing for better play and fewer injuries that QB group does not get us near the playoffs next year and probably leads to empty seats and a demand to play Mahomes before he's ready. Every report I've read on him says he needs at least a year maybe more before he sees the field.

 

[Matt Suhey]

Yeah, we'd be rolling with...

Hoyer
Shaw/Barkley
Mahomes

Even allowing for better play and fewer injuries that QB group does not get us near the playoffs next year and probably leads to empty seats and a demand to play Mahomes before he's ready. Every report I've read on him says he needs at least a year maybe more before he sees the field.

Yes Mahomes needs at least a year to play but if he is a charismatic leader who turns lemon like plays into lemonade type big plays he would be well worth the wait.

 

[AussieBear]

Only downside with that is that a lot of our board thought Barkley was starter quality a few months ago.

a fucking men

 

[WindyCity]

Trading for a player on a 1 year 1.1 million dollar deal=easy for both sides financially

Trading for a player on a 1 year 25 million dollar deal=financially risky for both parties involved

 

[WindyCity]

Unproven player with 1.5 career starts making 1.1 million= interested and intrigued

Unproven player with 1.5 career starts making 25 million=enourmous financial risk



Even if you extend Jimmy with an Osweiler type deal the first year cap hit will be closer to 14 million than 25 million. If you trade for Jimmy on the tag there is no way you are cutting him after 1 season so you may need to tag him again.

2018: 25 million
2019: 30 million

In fact if Jimmy is tagged it is in his best interest to be tagged twice and not sign an extension. Kirk Cousins is doing it right now.

 

[WindyCity]

I am the 2nd biggest Jimmy supporter on this message board and I would never trade for Jimmy on the tag, under any circumstance.


If I tag him it is a different story, because I will have seen him play 16 games in my system and obviously he had some level of success.

 

[iueyedoc]

Unproven player with 1.5 career starts making 1.1 million= interested and intrigued

Unproven player with 1.5 career starts making 25 million=enourmous financial risk



Even if you extend Jimmy with an Osweiler type deal the first year cap hit will be closer to 14 million than 25 million. If you trade for Jimmy on the tag there is no way you are cutting him after 1 season so you may need to tag him again.

2018: 25 million
2019: 30 million

In fact if Jimmy is tagged it is in his best interest to be tagged twice and not sign an extension. Kirk Cousins is doing it right now.

What is being missed is no team is trading for him to play under the tag. If he is tagged, a team would compensate NWE with picks and have an already worked out deal to replace the tag. The new team is compensating NWE for the rights to negotiate under the tag just as they can until July 15th of the league year, they would be consummating what would be an already agreed upon contract before the trade ever happened.

The cap hit would be just whatever the new contract entails. The franchise tag # is zero concern or roadblock for any team wanting to trade for him, the only team with risk by franchising him is NWE. If they tag him and cant find a suitable partner , they are on the hook for the cap hit.

 

[Bearly]

I think that was kinda the point. Another is that NE isn't taking a 2 for him if they actually think he's that good. I think the least they take is a swap of ones from a top 3 team, maybe Cleveland's 12, seems too rich for me. If they take this years 2, they'll want next years 1 to go with it. If no one goes for it, they have until week 6 to move him and they will hope for some QB attrition to help expedite the matter.

 

[Luke]

I think that was kinda the point. Another is that NE isn't taking a 2 for him if they actually think he's that good. I think the least they take is a swap of ones from a top 3 team, maybe Cleveland's 12, seems too rich for me. If they take this years 2, they'll want next years 1 to go with it. If no one goes for it, they have until week 6 to move him and they will hope for some QB attrition to help expedite the matter.

agreed. Who knows what the final trade compensation will be but it wont be cheap.

 

[dbldrew]

This was not your original argument. And no this isn't their last chance to do it. Their last chance to do it is next year. While I would agree that his value is more likely to decline, I wouldn't say they can't get a high pick as it depends on who has a need at QB. A team that is drafting say 27 may decide to give up that pick because it's late first round and they are a contender and just need a QB that they aren't likely to get in the draft at 27.

Yes that is my argument and has been the whole time.. you came up with an absurd scenario of tagging him and then trying to trade him.. No team is going to give up anything to trade for a guy on a franchise tag when they can just wait for him to be cut. Due to the 40-45mil tied up in Qbs

Now if they let JG walk next year they can get a compensatory pick at the end of round 3-7

So if they want high draft picks this is the year.. I have said that all along and have said it again.

 

[Bearly]

Pats got an early 2nd for Cassel by doing that and that's about all they'll get by waiting to tag JG. They could get more now so the correct move is to trade him this year. What they could do and what is prudent are not the same thing here. The situations are different. Cassel had topped out his value on his tag year. JG is already there.

 

[WindyCity]

What is being missed is no team is trading for him to play under the tag. If he is tagged, a team would compensate NWE with picks and have an already worked out deal to replace the tag. The new team is compensating NWE for the rights to negotiate under the tag just as they can until July 15th of the league year, they would be consummating what would be an already agreed upon contract before the trade ever happened.

The cap hit would be just whatever the new contract entails. The franchise tag # is zero concern or roadblock for any team wanting to trade for him, the only team with risk by franchising him is NWE. If they tag him and cant find a suitable partner , they are on the hook for the cap hit.

It is Jimmy's best interest not to sign a long term deal once he is on the tag. Kirk Cousin's is playing this beautifully he is not going to agree to a long term deal till he has to and in the process make 100 million guaranteed.



If you trade for him on the tag you lose the luxury of the cheap year in addition to the tag.

2017: 1 year 1.1 million + 4 years 72 million extension= 5 years 73.1 million [14.6 average cap hit]

2018: 4 years 72 million [18 average cap hit]

 

[WindyCity]

Pats got an early 2nd for Cassel by doing that and that's about all they'll get by waiting to tag JG. They could get more now so the correct move is to trade him this year. What they could do and what is prudent are not the same thing here. The situations are different. Cassel had topped out his value on his tag year. JG is already there.

Another consideration is that when Cassel was tagged the QB tag was about 11% of a teams salary cap. Now the QB tag is about 17% of an NFL teams salary cap.

They will be able to trade him on the tag, but it will reduce his value.

 

[FirstTimer]

What is being missed is no team is trading for him to play under the tag.

The only person missing that is remy.