- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
That is why it has to be this year.
If I am Jimmy's agent, and he got tagged I would have him sign the tag and throw all the pens out.
That is why it has to be this year.
If I am Jimmy's agent, and he got tagged I would have him sign the tag and throw all the pens out.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,922
- Liked Posts:
- 21,668
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
Another thing to remember is that we feel they want to move him and that may just not be so. If they don't get a great offer, they may be content to have that competent backup for one more year. It's not like they are desperate to improve and need 2nd round picks to do it. BB does move guys early while he can still get something for them but he's not penny wise and dollar foolish. How interested he actually is in moving JG will have a lot to do with Brissett's progress.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,922
- Liked Posts:
- 21,668
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
Except that Jimmy wants to play. I do agree that this is the right time if they are going to move him. The bait has been set. Now they just need a bit of patience.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
Then he plays on the tag with the Bears or 49ers, of course both will probably have moved on by 2018.
Financially it makes the most sense to play on the tag for at least a year. Especially considering we have not seen a QB get a "career threatening injury" on the tag.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,922
- Liked Posts:
- 21,668
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
I don't think that trade happens. No assurances for extensions can be made once the tag is signed. I suppose a trust situation could happen and some verbal agreement made but it would be non binding. It would be exactly like the Cousins situation right now. The parties may like each other more but relationships change so it's a big risk.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
Mike Sando has a piece on ESPN Insider that talks about the different potential trade packages.
If someone has it they could post it?
Also Mary Kay Cabot in Cleveland says she thinks that the Browns give up 1[12] for him if pushed, if that is the case pack up and move on to the draft.
If someone has it they could post it?
Also Mary Kay Cabot in Cleveland says she thinks that the Browns give up 1[12] for him if pushed, if that is the case pack up and move on to the draft.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,922
- Liked Posts:
- 21,668
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
They'll be pushed and maybe add a little sugar.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
This makes no sense. There is no proof they wouldn't be able to trade him because he could still negotiate a deal with the team trading for him. Nor is this my plan. I was merely pointing out the Pats were not backed into a corner because the poster said they were.
I said most likely because because there's a possibility that Brady simply retires after next year as there have been reports that some believe he will. Or that he gets injured.
The original argument was based on the idea that they had no intent of keeping JG. I stated very clearly that they just need the cap space to be able to apply the tag but that ultimately they would end up trading him because they wouldn't actually have a desire to retain him for that year and pay him 25 million.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
Exactly, I don't know why people would assume that you can't just negotiate a new deal with him while he is on the franchise tag. The only issue the 25 million poses is that you need to have the cap space to make the trade but under either scenario you would then be signing him to a new deal.
Can you quote your post where you said this previously. I can't find it.
I'm not missing that at all. No one claimed he would play under the tag. I said the Pats can franchise and trade him. I already stated in post 180 to Rory that the team trading him could sign him to a long term deal so there was never any suggestion that JG would play under the tag.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
No you are being dense. The reason why I don't think it is likely is because I don't think BB actually think JG is a Pro Bowl talent at QB. The basis for my argument is that BB will trade JG this year to get maximum value because he is doesn't view him as a franchise QB. If he actually thought JG was a franchise type QB then he would keep the dude this year for insurance and then get what he could for him next year as at that point next year, keeping him around would be cost prohibitive unless Brady retired. It's not cost prohibitive now because they can keep him for 1.1 million.
They would be backed into a corner after next year because keeping him would be cost prohibitive unless Brady retired. My scenario never suggested they would actually be willing to pay him 25 million next year to be a back-up. My scenario was that they would have enough cap space to initially franchise him and then trade him because they would have no intent to actually keep him at 25 million.
You are coming up with a completely different scenario where they would be willing to pay him 25 million as a backup which I never stated. The whole point here is that they don't have to trade him this year at 1.1 million but that next year they wouldn't want to pay him 25 million so instead they would franchise tag and then trade him.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
I think that would be negotiated prior to the trade don't you think. The reason why he would accept a long term deal is because if he fucking bombs or gets injured under the 1 year 25 million dollar deal then his value drops.
By accepting a long term deal now, he protects himself against the downside risk. Like are you stupid. Do you know understand that in just about all major sports, some players accept a long term deal for less yearly salary precisely because it's more guaranteed money and hence provides for long term security against injury and poor play?
There is a reason why players generally don't like playing under the Franchise tag because they are fearful of having down year or an injury resulting in them missing out on the big long term deal with more guaranteed money.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,266
- Liked Posts:
- 23,072
- Location:
- USA
While it is technically possible that the Pats will tag JG you really can't count this as an option. If they tag JG they would have 50 million locked up in QBs......JG would make more money than Brady........
No one sane would even consider this. It isn't a viable option and the Pats will not do this and the rest of the league knows this....it isn't an option, erase it.
No one sane would even consider this. It isn't a viable option and the Pats will not do this and the rest of the league knows this....it isn't an option, erase it.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
At many positions players do accept less money for more guarantees and security. The problem is at the QB position the tag money is so huge that it has less of an impact.
Accept a long term deal-make 13 million more guaranteed [Osweiler 38 million]
Wait and get tagged twice or sign a new deal-make a minimum 30 million more guaranteed [tagged twice]
Injuries do not matter, when was the last time we saw a QB get hurt and not get a new deal? Brees mutilated his throwing shoulder and still got paid by NO.
It does not matter if he bombs, if a team gave up premium picks for him they are not giving up on him after 1 season. He is at a minimum getting tagged twice and making 55 million guaranteed over 2 years.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
Jimmy's most exposed is in 2017. He is making 1.1 million and he has nothing really in the bank. If you get him this season he is motivated to sign a long term deal so he does not have to risk himself for 1.1 million.
Put a guaranteed 25 million in his bank account and he is in a position of strength and in a position to take more risks.
Put a guaranteed 25 million in his bank account and he is in a position of strength and in a position to take more risks.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Cassel
Pats franchise Matt Cassell. He gets traded to the Chiefs and they sign him to a long term deal. The Pats have literally already done this before.
Not sure how you decided it would be 13 million more guaranteed.
Second, Brees got injured after a Pro Bowl season. JG hasn't had any sustained success in the NFL so an injury in 2018 would affect his value more than Brees who had success prior to injury.
It does matter if he bombs because his value goes down period since he is largely unproven in the NFL.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
The ideal financial scenario for Jimmy is
2017: Hide on NE's bench with no/little risk
2018: Get tagged and traded [25 million guaranteed]
2019: Get tagged again [30 million guaranteed]
2020: Sign Long Term Deal [50 million guaranteed]
105 million guaranteed dollars over 3 years. This is what Cousins is going to do.
Now an injury could derail that, but I cannot think of the last QB that suffered that career altering of an injury. We see QBs get paid after multiple ACL tears, shoulder surgeries, someone is going to give Romo starter money after multiple back and collarbone surgeries.
2017: Hide on NE's bench with no/little risk
2018: Get tagged and traded [25 million guaranteed]
2019: Get tagged again [30 million guaranteed]
2020: Sign Long Term Deal [50 million guaranteed]
105 million guaranteed dollars over 3 years. This is what Cousins is going to do.
Now an injury could derail that, but I cannot think of the last QB that suffered that career altering of an injury. We see QBs get paid after multiple ACL tears, shoulder surgeries, someone is going to give Romo starter money after multiple back and collarbone surgeries.
- Joined:
- Dec 12, 2011
- Posts:
- 30,816
- Liked Posts:
- 35,325
They tagged Cassel for 15 million and about 11% of the salary cap of 125 million at the time.
They would tag Jimmy at 25 million or about 17% of the salary cap.
Jimmy could very easily sign an extension, like Cassel did, but financially he should just play on the tag. He would be making 13 million more guaranteed dollars to give up 3 years of control over the situation.
Osweiler made 38 million over 2 years.
Getting tagged twice would pay Jimmy 55 million.
dbldrew
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 24, 2012
- Posts:
- 5,358
- Liked Posts:
- 988
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
Again all of the QBs you are referring to had success prior to injury. JG is not those QBs because he literally has played 1.5 games in the NFL precisely because he got injured in his second game. Another injury as he playing under the franchise tag and his value declines because you would have a injury prone dude with no sustained success in the NFL. Trying to compare that to Brees or Romo is dumb because those guys actually had seasons where they excelled prior to injury not 1.5 games.
JG's agent would be stupid to let JG play under the franchise tag given the uncertainty around whether he is actually a good QB or not and this is without considering the fact said agent would be passing on the commissions he would get from a long term deal.
Cousins can gamble on himself because he had 30 games in the NFL coming into this year. 30 > 1.5 games.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,233
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
No you implied that no one would trade for him which is I think is inaccurate. See Matt Cassell for reference.
