Predictions of when Dale will be fired

[KBisBack!]

No, it doesn't merit anyone being fired right now.

OMG.

Just when I think you can't possible post anything dumber than you what you have already posted, you manage to rise to the occasion.

If two straight 100 loss seasons doesn't merit anyone being fired, there has never been a justifiable firing in the history of sports by your criteria.

 

[Jntg4]

OMG.

Just when I think you can't possible post anything dumber than you what you have already posted, you manage to rise to the occasion.

If two straight 100 loss seasons doesn't merit anyone being fired, there has never been a justifiable firing in the history of sports by your criteria.

Or maybe my criteria simply isn't 100 loss seasons during a rebuild, and I said "right now", in which case we have not had two 100 loss seasons yet.

 

[mountsalami]

under normal circumstances id agree, but you have to remember epstein and hoyer are only doing what ricketts has asked them to do and thats rebuild the team from bottom up while keeping payroll at a minimum..
so, if we should have a gripe with anyone on this team for what it is it should be the ricketts..

what their doing is basically a 3-5 yr process depending on the growth of their younger core, so at least IMO these next 3 off seasons, trade deadlines is where im going to judge what epstein and hoyer does as far as improving the roster because i expect more core players to stick each year and by the end of yr 5 i expect to see a complete rotation and starting 8 thats ready to compete..

bearz99.

The budget SpedStein has been given has been wasted on mostly pure garbage. Whether it's the displaced and injured, or the players that have no history of meaningful success in their career. Not much quality per dollar spent and alot of pure shit.

The trades that were embarassingly attempted but failed and the ones made....Paint an even worse picture of Command Central's Dedication to Fan Commitment along with the progressive "youth movement" that he made his claim to fame with in year one.

 

[patg006]

Sorry.

Should I use Kansas Football as an example then? lol

Turner Gill was brought in, everyone knew the team was going to be bad and he got fired two years into a five year contract.

Happy? :fap:

Too late, still stings :kick: from all the Bill Carmody era (also known as the clueless era) where he played an offense based around one big fat C/PF like a Shaq when he should have been running and gunning with all the small, quick shooters.

LOL Turner Gill; why? Didnt he win 8 games in Buffalo? Love Pat Fitzgerald. Could :fap: to him all day

 

[patg006]

And I can think of something much dumber to post,

:enough:

 

[KBisBack!]

Or maybe my criteria simply isn't 100 loss seasons during a rebuild, and I said "right now", in which case we have not had two 100 loss seasons yet.

Ahh the 'rebuild'.

The greatest fraud perpetrated on fans in the history of sports.

What 'rebuild' really means is that the team will suck for a few years while ownership pockets more profit.

That is all a rebuild is.

As has been pointed out numerous times, that you appear to be too dumb to understand, is that the minor league system could just as easily been rebuilt with the major league team winning 90 games.

I believe you have pointed to the Cardinals on what a great farm system they have. In fact Baseball America has them ranked #1.

They have had winning seasons in 12 out of the last 13 years, including 9 trips to the playoffs and 2 World Series Championships.

In 2012 they were 10th. In 2011 they were 24th.

So in two years they were able to go from 24th to 1st at the same time they won a World Series and played in the NLCS.

How is this possible since you have repeatedly claimed that throwing away multiple seasons was needed in order to build up the farm system???

See, the thing called BOTH that many of us have been trying to educate you about is completely realistic.

 

[Franko725]

Wow, not sure if I really want to jump into this flame war or not, but here we go anyway.

Being a Cubs fan for my entire life, 35+ years now, has brought me alot of pain. The teams that have been on the field have ranged from really good, to terribly bad. There has never been a lot of young talent that was coming up to really look forward to. There in itself lies the problem. There were the Wood's and Prior's of the bunch, but overall, the farm system has always for the most part sucked.

The front office has been bad for years. Hendry was not a good GM...plain and simple. He overpaid guys and handed out no-trade clauses like they were candy. His drafts were terrible. The combination of these two things have decimated the foundation of the team. Yes, you can point to the Cardinals as a team that is a perennial contender, but a big reason of that has always been the front office. Whenever they lose a guy, or need a hole to be filled or upgraded, they either bring a guy up or use their farm system to effectively trade for someone. When was the last time the Cubs were able to do that?

I suppose the point of my post is that, you cannot blame Sveum for last years 100 losses. The team was on pace to win more that that before every possible trade chip was gone. Can you blame Theo and Jed? Not really given the salary that the Ricketts' want to use. The only way that the Cubs are going to build a team with the salary that they have to work with is by continuing to buy on the cheap and hope to get something in return for the trade pieces that they sign.

As much as I hate to see the team sucks so bad, sometimes you have to tear something down completely to make it better. I have waited more than 35 years, I can wait a few more if it means that I can see this team be good year in and year out for the second half of my life.

 

[KBisBack!]

The front office has been bad for years. Hendry was not a good GM...plain and simple.

No it isn't plain and simple. It is your opinion.

Hendry brought the Cubs their most successful stretch in a century. Between 2003 and 2008 he equaled the amount of playoff trips the team had prior to 2003 and going back all the way to 1945.

Not sure exactly why that qualifies him as a bad GM. Most GM's would be considered very successful having three trips to the playoffs in an eight year period.

He overpaid guys and handed out no-trade clauses like they were candy.

You mean like Theo did with Dice-K, John Lackey, JD Drew, Carl Crawfod, Adrian Gonzalez and Josh Beckett among others but only less???

Most GM's in the 21st Century have handed out no trade clauses like they were candy. Understand the times before you criticize.

His drafts were terrible.

No they weren't.

In his time as GM he drafted Sean Marshall, Sam Fuld, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Steve Clevenger, Darwin Barney, James Russell, Andrew Cashner, Brett Jackson, DJ Lemathieu, Matt Szczur, Javier Baez, Dan Vogelbach and Dillon Maples among others. Was it the best drafting in all of baseball over that period? No, but it was far from terrible as well.

The combination of these two things have decimated the foundation of the team.

Nope.

The complete throwing away of multiple seasons at the major league level by making little to no effort to field a quality major league team has decimated the foundation of the team.

Many of the top prospects still in the system that is 'so promising' were drafted by Hendry.

As much as I hate to see the team sucks so bad, sometimes you have to tear something down completely to make it better. I have waited more than 35 years, I can wait a few more if it means that I can see this team be good year in and year out for the second half of my life.

IF it means you can see this team be good year in and year out for the second half of my life.

IF it was a GUARANTEE that wasting a couple seasons at the major league level would 100% result in the team being good year in and year out for the second half of your life we would all be on board with it.

Heck if there was even a 60% this would happen I would be all for it.

However that is not reality.

Reality is that multiple major league seasons are being thrown away and it appears that all the eggs that are the future of the franchise are being put into the minor league system that statistically shows that even prospects who make the vaunted top 100 prospect list only become quality major league players less than 1/3 of the time.

 

[Franko725]

KB,

You call Hendry successful for getting the Cubs to the playoffs three times in eight years, but previously point to the Cardinals and the fact that they were in 9 of the last twelve. Which is it? I do not accept three over the course of the time he was here enough.

When it comes to the people that Theo signed while he was in Boston, I would ask that when the contracts were signed, wouldn't all Cubs fans be ecstatic with some of those signings? Of course we would have. Just because they didn't all work out doesn't mean they weren't the right idea. Sometimes guys don't pan out.

As far as Hendry's draft picks, you have got to be kidding...You cannot possibly look at the guys on that list that have made it to the majors and be impressed. Yeah, Marshall has had a good career so far. Barney is a good player. Shark has a chance of being really good. Other than that you list off a bunch of platoon type players that are never going to be great. Where on that list is a player like Pujols? Or a David Price? Someone that changes your franchise?

Again, if you want to bitch about throwing away a season or two...go bitch about the owners. They set the payroll. That is plain and simple truth. You might not like only having them to complain about, but that is the fact of the matter.

And yes, there is no guarantee that the Cubs are going to be perennial contenders, but by building a better farm system, you give yourself a better chance.

 

[mountsalami]

The Mighty SpedStein of the Cubs presently has signed nothing but garbage.

But he will lead us to the promised land by simply tanking seasons for high draft positioning and a few extra cents to spend internationally.

And lets not forget the flipping of mediocre garbage at the trade deadline for other teams crap for this youth movement of the future 'plan'.

I like to watch a team with direction. This one has NONE.

Say hello to the great Gerardo Concepcion.

 

[KBisBack!]

KB,

You call Hendry successful for getting the Cubs to the playoffs three times in eight years, but previously point to the Cardinals and the fact that they were in 9 of the last twelve. Which is it? I do not accept three over the course of the time he was here enough.

This is not an either or situation.

I would say both teams have been successful over those periods. Obviously the Cards were more successful.

If you dont accept the most successful 8 years for the franchise in about a century, exactly what would you accept then? This screams of an agenda.

When it comes to the people that Theo signed while he was in Boston, I would ask that when the contracts were signed, wouldn't all Cubs fans be ecstatic with some of those signings? Of course we would have. Just because they didn't all work out doesn't mean they weren't the right idea. Sometimes guys don't pan out.

Gotcha. Theo's signing more players to overpaid contracts is just guys not panning out and Hendry was a terrible GM.

No hypocrisy at all here.

As far as Hendry's draft picks, you have got to be kidding...You cannot possibly look at the guys on that list that have made it to the majors and be impressed. Yeah, Marshall has had a good career so far. Barney is a good player. Shark has a chance of being really good. Other than that you list off a bunch of platoon type players that are never going to be great. Where on that list is a player like Pujols? Or a David Price? Someone that changes your franchise?

Mark Prior who was drafted in 2001 when Hendry was the Director of Scouting was that player that changes your franchise and unfortunately for the worst due to a couple freak injuries. I don't think it is a stretch to claim that had Prior not gotten hurt, the Cubs would have made 1 or 2 more playoff appearances and certainly performed better in the postseason in 2007-2008. You think a 26-27 year old Prior in his prime might have helped those two years??

Again, I said the Cubs draft those years wasn't the best but was far from terrible like your agenda wants to claim.

And Pujols?? You mean not only the lottery ticket the Cardinals had but the winning PowerBall numbers?? He was a 13th round draft pick that turned into the best hitter of this generation. They got really lucky on that one.

Again, if you want to bitch about throwing away a season or two...go bitch about the owners. They set the payroll. That is plain and simple truth. You might not like only having them to complain about, but that is the fact of the matter.

I have bitched about the owners cutting payroll.

But that doesn't negate the poor player personal decisions made the last two offseasons either.

There is enough bad for everyone to get blame, and I have blamed everyone.

And yes, there is no guarantee that the Cubs are going to be perennial contenders, but by building a better farm system, you give yourself a better chance.

No one has ever said not to build a better farm system. Pay attention.

I have said, and provided facts, that a better farm system can be built while fielding a quality, if not Championship ball team.

That is why accepting the throwing away of multiple major league seasons to try and accomplish the same thing other teams are doing while playing winning baseball seems absurd to me.

 

[Jntg4]

1. Wilkens drafted as he pleased, Hendry didn't run the draft much at all.
2. Wasn't all that good anyway
Sean Marshall - Nice reliever
Sam Fuld - Bench player/Below average starter
Tyler Colvin - Hit a bit at Coors, now plays in Colorado Springs
Jeff Samardzija - Turn around reliever now a top of the rotation starter
Steve Clevenger - LOL
Darwin Barney - Very good defensive piece, offensively a black hole
James Russell - Nice reliever
Andrew Cashner - Was a very obvious pick to take, had a lot of potential, sad seeing that potential wasted on injury
Brett Jackson - Weren't you the one complaining about Rizzo's strikeouts? One of you was anyway, may never be an MLB starter
DJ Lemahieu - One 81 game season with an 87 OPS+ is his career best, was always a fringe prospect
Matt Szczur - Looked like complete bust last year, now may be a future 4th OF
Javier Baez - Nice find by Wilkens
Dan Vogelbach - Future DH, 2011 was one of Wilkens' good drafts
Dillon Maples - Has Pitched 10.1 professional innings since being drafted in 2011...

 

[Jntg4]

It's been a decade since the Cubs last drafted an eventual long-term MLB starter with their 1st round pick

 

[KBisBack!]

It's been a decade since the Cubs last drafted an eventual long-term MLB starter with their 1st round pick

And in the last decade the Pirates have drafted Pedro Alvarez, Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker and Paul Maholm in the 1st round.

They have a decade of losing baseball with seven of those seasons 90+ losses.

That is why you need to do BOTH and not put all your eggs in the farm system basket.

 

[Jntg4]

And in the last decade the Pirates have drafted Pedro Alvarez, Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker and Paul Maholm in the 1st round.

They have a decade of losing baseball with seven of those seasons 90+ losses.

That is why you need to do BOTH and not put all your eggs in the farm system basket.

We're talking about Hendry's "good drafting" here, which is odd since Hendry didn't even control our drafts in the first place.

 

[KBisBack!]

We're talking about Hendry's "good drafting" here, which is odd since Hendry didn't even control our drafts in the first place.

Please quote exactly where I said he had "good drafting".

Or did I say the drafting wasn't terrible?

There is a lot of room between terrible and good, but once again you are in a rush to get your diapered all bunched up to argue before actually knowing what was said and what you are whining about.

By the way signing Starlin Castro as an international free agent in that time period needs to be included.

 

[Jntg4]

Please quote exactly where I said he had "good drafting".

Or did I say the drafting wasn't terrible?

There is a lot of room between terrible and good, but once again you are in a rush to get your diapered all bunched up to argue before actually knowing what was said and what you are whining about.

By the way signing Starlin Castro as an international free agent in that time period needs to be included.

"Far from terrible" when it got us nothing but a couple relievers and bench players, with a few guys whose fates have yet to be determined. And for every one of those you have, we've screwed up big time a bit too (e.g. Hayden Simpson).

Castro was a great signing, but again, that was by Oneri Fleita, not Hendry himself, just like the drafting was by Tim Wilkens.

 

[dabears253313]

Stuff like this will cause the break:

Cubs manager Dale Sveum is upset with his team's recent play and says that players who don't perform won't have big-league jobs, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun Times reports. That goes for top young players Starlin Castro and Anthony Rizzo. "I don’t think [anyone’s] invincible if you’re not performing," Sveum says regarding Castro and Rizzo. "It’s not about what we think can happen three or four years from now. It’s time to perform on a consistent basis."

Wittenmyer writes that Sveum's harsh words for Castro and Rizzo "threw a sudden dose of skepticism and doubt into the widespread assumptions about the Cubs’ core," but acknowledges that, in reality, Castro and Rizzo will be with the Cubs for the foreseeable future. Sveum is suggesting they might be demoted, but that seems extremely unlikely, and it's even less likely that either of them would be traded. The Cubs signed Castro to a seven-year, $60MM contract last August. Rizzo is not signed to a long-term deal. Both players have hit well this season despite occasional mistakes in the field. Here are more notes from around the majors.

The same Dale Sveum that kept Chris Volstad in the starting rotation for the longest time last season. The same Dale Sveum that played Joe Mather all the time last season. Those guys struggled but they still got playing time. Didn't Geovany Soto bat under .200 last season as a starter with the Cubs? Steve Clevenger was punished for his struggles after his injury, why wasn't Soto punished? Where was Ian Stewart's demotion? Why did the Cubs not play Tony Campana instead of Joe Mather last season before they brought up Brett Jackson?

If he is going to hold all players accountable, he needs to do it. Don't threaten to bench Starlin Castro in 2012 but then let Volstad get away with not performing. Why don't the Cubs bench Luis Valbuena and give someone else a chance? Valbuena is a career .220 hitter. I know Steve Clevenger is hurt now but why was he not given the starting third baseman job after his performance in spring training?

 

[KBisBack!]

"Far from terrible"

So I never said it was "good drafting"??

Didn't think so.

You want to see see terrible drafting, go look at the Padres.

I mean since Tony Gwynn, name another player besides Jake Peavy who has been an above average player that played mainly for the Padres that they drafted and developed??

Benito Santiago??? You are probably too young to even remember him.

 

[DewsSox79]

firing or keeping him has nil influence on where the cubs will be in the standings the next few years.