Rabbi supports ground zero mosque

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="MassHavoc"]I don't really want to get into this, but after reading through some of it, I think it's a HUGE disservice to characterize a multi-national, hugely funded, well armed, and trained terrorist network as a couple of a nutjobs who flew a plane into a couple of towers. On top of that, I'm tired of people thinking that that day was just about those two towers. There were several other plans, and it was a coordinated attack unlike any this generation has we've seen on the mainland. One with at least 15 - 20 directly involved and who knows how many helping coordinate and fund it....



but yeah, just a couple of nutjobs.[/quote]



I think we're all referring to the extremists compared to the true Muslims. There are ~1.57 billion Muslims in the world and of those, a very minuscule percentile are involved with terrorist cells/groups.



So in the grand scheme of things, it was "just a couple of nutjobs".

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="puckjim"]



Ashamed, but not surprised, I'm sure.



Bigotry is alive and well at IHN. So is ignorance.[/quote]

Ignorant? Do you understand how many American lives were lost on 9/11? Did you lose anyone in your family that was close to this? I did and this is certainly an important issue to me. I look at my sister's kids and see the loss of their father in their eyes. It is easy to throw around liberal banter and rights for all but if you ever have something hit close to home I guarantee you won't feel that way.

 

[MassHavoc]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



I think we're all referring to the extremists compared to the true Muslims. There are ~1.57 billion Muslims in the world and of those, a very minuscule percentile are involved with terrorist cells/groups.



So in the grand scheme of things, it was "just a couple of nutjobs".[/quote]

No. You can't just say since it's a small subsection of the entire group then it doesn't matter. That's like saying BP did nothing wrong because in the grand scheme of things .000000000000001% of the gulfs water is now oil.



They are a subsection or Muslims, with implications that carry over into the rest of the population. Unfortunately you can't fight one without the other. If we could separate them and just fight them we would, but it's not possible.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Ignorant? Do you understand how many American lives were lost on 9/11? Did you lose anyone in your family that was close to this? I did and this is certainly an important issue to me. I look at my sister's kids and see the loss of their father in their eyes. It is easy to throw around liberal banter and rights for all but if you ever have something hit close to home I guarantee you won't feel that way.[/quote]



So be mad at the terrorists not a whole religion.

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



I think we're all referring to the extremists compared to the true Muslims. There are ~1.57 billion Muslims in the world and of those, a very minuscule percentile are involved with terrorist cells/groups.



So in the grand scheme of things, it was "just a couple of nutjobs".[/quote]

It only takes one 'nutjob' to blow up a plane. Or in the case of 9/11, 5 nutjobs to bring down a single tower.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Ignorant? Do you understand how many American lives were lost on 9/11? Did you lose anyone in your family that was close to this? I did and this is certainly an important issue to me. I look at my sister's kids and see the loss of their father in their eyes. It is easy to throw around liberal banter and rights for all but if you ever have something hit close to home I guarantee you won't feel that way.[/quote]

Thousands of innocent people. Things have hit home to all of us in different touchy situations. But your complete lumping of all Muslims into "remember what THEY did" is ridiculous. I don't know if your religious, I assume you know little to no Muslims. But if you are religious how would you feel if a Church was not allowed there either? Muslims who I have met and live in America are no different than you and I, and according to the "constitution" their allowed to worship the same god that you do, and yes Muslims, Jews, Christians, they all believe in the same figure in the sky.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I understand that... but let's take an estimate that there are 1.8 MILLION Islamic terrorists. That is 1.146% of the overall Muslim population. Hardly cause to hate a whole religion because of extremists and be up in arms that the other 98.854% of that religion want a temple built.

 

[E Runs]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Ignorant? Do you understand how many American lives were lost on 9/11? Did you lose anyone in your family that was close to this? I did and this is certainly an important issue to me. I look at my sister's kids and see the loss of their father in their eyes. It is easy to throw around liberal banter and rights for all but if you ever have something hit close to home I guarantee you won't feel that way.[/quote]

So it's a revenge thing for you? I get it, totally understandable but it's not liberal banter for those of us saying it should be allowed. You either believe in the Constitution and what is stands for or you don't.



Is the location of this proposed building offensive, in poor taste, can be seen as an affront, etc.? Yeah, probably but that doesn't doesn't change the fundamental rights guaranteed in this nation.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]I understand that... but let's take an estimate that there are 100,000 Islamic terrorists. That is .00006% of the overall Muslim population. Hardly cause to hate a whole religion because of extremists and be up in arms that the other 99.99994% of that religion want a temple built.[/quote]



Thats why religion has lost everything to me, theirs almost 3.7 BILLION Christians, Muslims and Jews, the differences in the three religions are all MAN MADE, and most of the members are more ignorant to the subtle differences in the religions to the next. If people would sit down, read a book, understand the differences, realize that this whole my religion is better than yours, your wrong I'm right is 4 year old bullshit. Sit the **** down and help one another out regardless of the religious affliation(which is a complete joke IN THE FIRST PLACE, Muslims are that way because they were brought up that way, vice-versa Christians/Jews) THEN I'd say the human race is moving forward.



Today me and my dad were at St. Vincent DePaul in the heart of little Mexico, (yea, handing out free food to hundreds of needy people, a ton of which are illegal) and not one person was sitting there bantering about god or America being the best country in the world. Shit was getting done as it does everyday at that place, shit I didn't hear one word of english except from my brother and dad. Literally the woman running it was born in Mexico, and all the other people working were to, very little english there. But a whole lot of good getting done.

 

[JOVE23]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



So be mad at the terrorists not a whole religion.[/quote]



But but but but I just spent a lot of money on a suit of armor and a noble steed!

 

[E Runs]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]



Thats why religion has lost everything to me, theirs almost 3.7 BILLION Christians, Muslims and Jews, the differences in the three religions are all MAN MADE, and most of the members are more ignorant to the subtle differences in the religions to the next.[/quote]

Bingo! And the people who use religion as an excuse for bloodshed are nothing but cowards.

 

[puckjim]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Ignorant? Do you understand how many American lives were lost on 9/11? Did you lose anyone in your family that was close to this? I did and this is certainly an important issue to me. I look at my sister's kids and see the loss of their father in their eyes. It is easy to throw around liberal banter and rights for all but if you ever have something hit close to home I guarantee you won't feel that way.[/quote]



Your blaming of all of all Muslims for 9-11 does nothing but piss on the memories of everyone that has died for this country and the freedom that we represent to the rest of the world.



The same freedom that allows you to get on the Internet and spew your dumbass bigotry.



That line of thinking is as misguided and fucked as those that blame all Jews for Jesus's death.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="JOVE23"]



But but but but I just spent a lot of money on a suit of armor and a noble steed![/quote]

Well then go slay some people!!!!!

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="puckjim"]

Your blaming of all of all Muslims for 9-11 does nothing but piss on the memories of everyone that has died for this country and the freedom that we represent to the rest of the world.



The same freedom that allows you to get on the Internet and spew your dumbass bigotry.



That line of thinking is as misguided and fucked as those that blame all Jews for Jesus's death.[/quote]

I never said I blamed all Muslims - that's you creating that crap line. I said I don't want a mosque at Ground Zero. Why can't it be 5 miles away? huh?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="puckjim"]



Your blaming of all of all Muslims for 9-11 does nothing but piss on the memories of everyone that has died for this country and the freedom that we represent to the rest of the world.



The same freedom that allows you to get on the Internet and spew your dumbass bigotry.



That line of thinking is as misguided and fucked as those that blame all Jews for Jesus's death.[/quote]



BTW, another thing.



Innocent Americans killed in 9/11 attacks: 2,976



Innocent Muslims killed in Iraq and Afghan wars......... conservative estimates are in the hundred thousands.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I never said I blamed all Muslims - that's you creating that crap line. I said I don't want a mosque at Ground Zero. Why can't it be 5 miles away? huh?[/quote]



Why should it have to be? There is already one 4 blocks away.



What? Should Ground-Zero be declared a "Muslim Free" zone? Maybe they shouldn't let coloreds into fancy establishments and send all illegal Mexicans to internment camps as well?



I don't think the proximity to ground zero should have any bearing on this mosque being built.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I never said I blamed all Muslims - that's you creating that crap line. I said I don't want a mosque at Ground Zero. Why can't it be 5 miles away? huh?[/quote]

Really? Whats the difference? I mean its not gonna happen anyway, but really, they should have a Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Zeus temple, Peshi temple for me....

 

[E Runs]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I never said I blamed all Muslims - that's you creating that crap line. I said I don't want a mosque at Ground Zero. Why can't it be 5 miles away? huh?[/quote]

I don't blame you on ioata for feeling that way. I don't know if I'm 100% "comfortable" with the idea myself however I don't believe it should be stopped from happening.

 

[JOVE23]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]

Well then go slay some people!!!!![/quote]

DEUS VEULT

 

[noon]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]Very surprised by the responses in this thread. I am very strongly AGAINST building this mosque at Ground Zero. This would an Islamic trophy to celebrate their 9/11 attacks on us. How can Americans think this is okay? People have short memories it appears. If they want a Mosque build it 5 miles away - why does it have to be right at Ground Zero?[/quote]



An Islamic trophy to celebrate their 9/11 attacks on us? Wow. I don't even know where to begin with the ignorance spewed in this thread. I have to assume you do not know a single Muslim.



Let's start with a couple of facts. First, the proposed mosque is actually an Islamic Cultural and Community Center (which includes a mosque, yes, but it is a center for the larger community that will include an athletic center, a culinary school and art studios). Second, the proposed site is not at ground zero, but rather 2 blocks away at the site of an old Burlington Coat Factory -- sacred ground for many, I know.



Do you know how many innocent, peaceful, mainstream Muslim-Americans were killed by those terrorists on 9/11? Is their suffering less than that of the white Christians?



The generalizations from the terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks to all Muslims is incomprehensibly beyond absurd. The Ku Klux Klan, the IRA and the Orange Volunteers, the Branch Davidians, and groups who bomb women's healthcare clinics are all Christian groups. I assume, by your logic, no Christian Community Centers or Churches should ever be permitted within 2 blocks of any site of terrorist acts performed by any of these groups? And it is proper to generalize from the acts of these fringe groups to all Christians?