Rabbi supports ground zero mosque

[PatrickSharpRules]

If every American actually knew what the big three religions involved were actually separated by not a soul would have a problem....Christians became so because "man" thought Jesus was the messiah, Muslims became so because man thought Muhammad was the messiah. No messages were changed by the so called god, every religion has the same god, and the only fucking differences were created by men who were schizophrenic and wrote down what they thought was meaningful. Literally, the Q'ran, Torah, Talmud, Bible, Hebrew Bible were all written by men, no mystical thing in the sky wrote them. The messages are the same, theres a lot of killing in them all, lot of good in them all. All three religions recognize Jesus and his message.



For real my dad who is a devout Catholic his whole life had absolutely no clue what Muslims believed in at all. Thought they had a different god and everything. So put a mosque on ground zero, put a church, synagogue. I'm sure many innocent Muslims died that day, maybe people will actually learn something about a different religion, or maybe start with their own and ask how they claim to be monotheistic when it is clearly not.

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="jaxhawksfan"]



You didn't answer the question. And secondly, you also missed the point. The USA doesn't own the world and all its shit. We practice a helluva lot of restraint if you ask me. Now, you could say that it is due to the fact that we only want to get involved when there is money or power in it for us, in which case I would agree for the most part.[/quote]



I don't know what you want me to say? Thank you for not invading my country?

 

[TSD]

[quote name="roshinaya"]



What are you trying to say? That you are all innocent and then the evil muslim terrorists just thought it would be a good idea to crash jetliners into skyscrapers? As I tried to explain earlier, the Western resentment among islamic countries has been brewing for almost two centuries maybe even longer, due to a number of different actions done by colonial powers. The westernization of the Ottoman empire, backing a West-leaning Shah in power in Iran which resulted in a revolution and the formation of a theocracy, who in large is behind the modern islamist movements. The US involvement and aggressive foreign policy, some might even call it imperialism, made them a prime target to radical islam.











And using nukes would be a Pyrrhic victory at best.





It's clear we are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. So I see no point in continuing this.[/quote]



Pyrrus had to go home and baaawww over his weak victory because he was using outdated Phalanx tactics and dumb elphants. Despite a much smaller force the Romans legionairy maniple system was much more manouverable and could adapt to changing conditions on the battle field. Pyyrus won but he didnt have shit left after that and couldnt do anything else so he went home a sad defeated panda.



From then on Rome exacted an aggressive foreign policy on the greeks and macedon. Rome expanded from infancy due to the idea, conquer your enemies before they conquer you, that could apply to modern thinking as well.

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="jaxhawksfan"]

Iraq and Afghanistan are poorly mismanaged because we don't allow our military to do what they are trained to do. I said 8-10 years ago, remember? Back when we let soldiers kill people without being shot at. Back when we shot first and asked questions later. Back when we would drop fucking bombs all over the place and level it like a fucking playground. You know, real war stuff, not the police bullshit they are forcing the military to do now.[/quote]



So just because a couple of nutbags thought it would be a good idea to knock over a few towers, you want to wipe out entire countries? I am sorry, but that's just fucked up and puts you on the same level as aforementioned nutbags.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="roshinaya"]



What are you trying to say? That you are all innocent and then the evil muslim terrorists just thought it would be a good idea to crash jetliners into skyscrapers? As I tried to explain earlier, the Western resentment among islamic countries has been brewing for almost two centuries maybe even longer, due to a number of different actions done by colonial powers. The westernization of the Ottoman empire, backing a West-leaning Shah in power in Iran which resulted in a revolution and the formation of a theocracy, who in large is behind the modern islamist movements. The US involvement and aggressive foreign policy, some might even call it imperialism, made them a prime target to radical islam.







And using nukes would be a Pyrrhic victory at best.





It's clear we are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. So I see no point in continuing this.[/quote]

Two hundred Years, maybe even longer. The westernization of the Ottoman Empire, the backing of a West Leaning Shah...blah blah blah. Lets go with 1st one westernization of the Ottoman Empire....that was the Europeans again, in particular the British. Go check your history. Again, we did not put a SHah into Power, the original one was part of a coup in somewhere after WWI, who subsequently was replaced by his son, by whom you ask???? You guessed it: the British and the Russians.

 

[roshinaya]

Bomb the **** out of London then, they got you in all this mess in the first place.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="roshinaya"]Bomb the **** out of London then, they got you in all this mess in the first place.[/quote]

How about quit pointing the finger at us because we are trying to help clean up a mess you created. And yes, I am lumping you in with the rest of the European Union.



That's the funny part about what you said. I am willing to bet that if you were to take a poll of every US citizen, less then 10% would say "Bomb the shit out of country x" would be their answer as to fixing the problems of the world. and I can guarantee that although we may crack jokes about "Turn them into a glass parking lot" less then 1% of the US military would say that, becasue we know exactly what kind of devastation can be wrought both on people and property by military action.

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]

How about quit pointing the finger at us because we are trying to help clean up a mess you created. And yes, I am lumping you in with the rest of the European Union.[/quote]



Fine. Keep on slaying those dragons in your dress blues. OOORAAH!

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="roshinaya"]



Fine. Keep on slaying those dragons in your dress blues. OOORAAH![/quote]

As long as you have the freedom to sit there and hug your tree and accept your government hand outs, well i guess I have accomplished just that.

 

[roshinaya]

Ah please, the fighting for freedom BS. At no point in time were the freedoms of the average American under any threat. And LOL at somehow making "tree hugging" less respectable than murdering human beings.

 

[Tater]

[quote name="roshinaya"]Ah please, the fighting for freedom BS. At no point in time were the freedoms of the average American under any threat. And LOL at somehow making "tree hugging" less respectable than murdering human beings.[/quote]



Pearl Harbor, 9/11 ???

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="Tater"]



Pearl Harbor, 9/11 ???[/quote]



What about them? A surprise attack on a naval base far out in the Pacific. A band of fanatics crashing planes into a couple of towers. How exactly did these isolated incidents pose a threat to the freedoms of Average Joe?

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="roshinaya"]Ah please, the fighting for freedom BS. At no point in time were the freedoms of the average American under any threat. And LOL at somehow making "tree hugging" less respectable than murdering human beings.[/quote]

LOL, normal european rhetoric again.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="roshinaya"]



What about them? A surprise attack on a naval base far out in the Pacific. A band of fanatics crashing planes into a couple of towers. How exactly did these isolated incidents pose a threat to the freedoms of Average Joe?[/quote]

Have ever bothered to read history. The "isolated icident" of a sneak attack on a militray base was just prior to the Japanese Ambassador to the US personally hand delivering a written declaration of war. So how is that not protecting the freedoms of the average joe as you put it.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="roshinaya"]Ah please, the fighting for freedom BS. At no point in time were the freedoms of the average American under any threat. And LOL at somehow making "tree hugging" less respectable than murdering human beings.[/quote]

Hahah, I'm agree. I know your European, but I'm American and have come to notice if you form your own opinions and don't agree with what your country is doing your a lesser American and definitely don't like it as much as someone with the flag waving in front of their house.



Since WWII, the wars have been bullshit. Whole lot of bullshit.

 

[Variable]

[quote name="Tater"]

Pearl Harbor, 9/11 ???[/quote]



Pearl Harbor was pretty much allowed to happen. I don't even really see how there can be an argument against that anymore. 9/11 has got some HUGE fucking questions as to what the hell happened (that won't ever be answered) and how it happened. The government doesn't really care about you. That's about as plain as it can be said. We are expendable if need be. If it helps further an agenda, so be it. War is the best business to be in as long as you're not involved with the actual fighting. Even when you look at WWII and you start digging deeper into it, stuff like American banks financing the rise of the Nazi party, stuff like that really makes you question what the hell is going on.

 

[LordKOTL]

[quote name="jaxhawksfan"]Rosh, serious question (maybe not today, but think about 8-10 years ago):



Do you think for one second that if the USA wanted to rule the world that anyone could stop us? If we wanted all the oil we would take it. If we wanted all the other resources we would take it. I'm sick of hearing the 'USA wants to rule the world' shit, or your Manifest Destiny crap.[/quote]



Doubt we ever could. It's a simple mater of logistics and the exact reason why an invasion from China is laughable and why even if the Nazis/Axis would have taken over Eurasia why it would be doubtful they ever would have sucessfuly conquered the Americas. The logistics of sending, and maintaing a large invasion force across either ocean, would be just about improbable. Further, Russia, China, and many countries of the EU aren't exactly fighting with sticks and rocks and it's not like we can just send over some smallpox-infected blankets, and what better way to get squabbling countries to unite more than a common enemy. Hell, it worked in WWII.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]

Hahah, I'm agree. I know your European, but I'm American and have come to notice if you form your own opinions and don't agree with what your country is doing your a lesser American and definitely don't like it as much as someone with the flag waving in front of their house.



Since WWII, the wars have been bullshit. Whole lot of bullshit.[/quote]

Where as I dont agree with you that all wars are bullshit, I firmly believe the 91 gulf war was justified, and sorry, I dont believe the conspiracy theory crap about "we did 9/11 to our own", our government has done really dumb things, but I can not believe that one. and if Bush the 2nd was a dumbass, then so were several other member countries of NATO for believing the intel they were fed.

How the **** can you say you are considered a lesser american for voicing your own views?? Frame your own opinion and scream it out. So fucing what, freedom of speech. Christ I am active duty, think our president is a fucking idiot, the Dem congress has already raised my sons taxes to astronomical levels that he wont be able to afford when he is of job working age and have no idea why we are still in Iraq, But I firmly believe in my country and excuse the **** out of me for waving the flag, this country has provided for me and mine for a couple or three generations now, and I am paying that back by wearing the Unifrom Of the United States Navy. And if one of these duties is going overseas to fight in an unpopular war, so be it.

 

[TSD]

[quote name="Variable"]



Pearl Harbor was pretty much allowed to happen. I don't even really see how there can be an argument against that anymore. 9/11 has got some HUGE fucking questions as to what the hell happened (that won't ever be answered) and how it happened. The government doesn't really care about you. That's about as plain as it can be said. We are expendable if need be. If it helps further an agenda, so be it. War is the best business to be in as long as you're not involved with the actual fighting. Even when you look at WWII and you start digging deeper into it, stuff like American banks financing the rise of the Nazi party, stuff like that really makes you question what the hell is going on.[/quote]





Re: Pearl Harbor Ive read books and seen multiple documentaries regarding this, the concensus is the superior officer of the radar man who detected the incoming japanese was asleep at the wheel, he dismissed the radar readouts and never informed his superiors. You must take into account radar was in its infancy, it wasnt "obvious" that the japanese were attacking till it happens.



Re: 9/11 take off your foil hat and go post this drivel on "truther" forums, where a bunch of losers living in their parents basement are privy to the most intimate of government secrets due to their super analytical abilities of grainy indiscernable footage, and they somehow contradict every legitimate expert in the world. Riggghhhtt. the supposed "dumbest" president in history pulled the wool over the eyes of the entire country, in this day in age.



the amount of people required to pull off a feat like this would have been huge, add to that not a single whistle blower in the group is highly unlikely.



Somehow they could orchestrate that, but couldnt fabricate the much simpler task of planting a couple of WMD's in Iraq and claiming to have "found" them, to justify their premise for war.



gimme a break.



People want conspircay theories to be true for the same reason media whores cum in their pants on the next celebrity drama. You want to feel important, in that you know something everyone else is too stupid to figure out.



The thing I dont get, is if I knew in my heart my own government purposely killed 3000 of its own people to spark a war, I would pack my bags and be out of the country within the week. Why on earth would you remain somewhere like that?



Sorry there is no real proof for any of it until that is provided you are living in fantasy land.

 

[Variable]

[quote name="TSD"]





Re: Pearl Harbor Ive read books and seen multiple documentaries regarding this, the concensus is the superior officer of the radar man who detected the incoming japanese was asleep at the wheel, he dismissed the radar readouts and never informed his superiors. You must take into account radar was in its infancy, it wasnt "obvious" that the japanese were attacking till it happens.



Re: 9/11 take off your foil hat and go post this drivel on "truther" forums, where a bunch of losers living in their parents basement are privy to the most intimate of government secrets due to their super analytical abilities of grainy indiscernable footage, and they somehow contradict every legitimate expert in the world. Riggghhhtt. the supposed "dumbest" president in history pulled the wool over the eyes of the entire country, in this day in age.



Somehow they could orchestrate that, but couldnt fabricate the much simpler task of planting a couple of WMD's in Iraq and claiming to have "found" them, to justify their premise for war.



gimme a break.



People want conspircaies to be true for the same reason media whores cum in their pants on the next celebrity drama.



Sorry there is no real proof for any of it until that is provided you are living in fantasy land.[/quote]





This is a good illustration of one of our big problems. No where in my post did I say I believe the government was behind everything. All I said was that there is a lot of unanswered questions. And you went automatically to the conclusion that I am crazy. You can't even raise a question, a doubt without being labled something and that's good for no one. It becomes a roadblock. No matter who you choose to believe on this topic, you are choosing to believe in a conspiracy theory. Remember that.