Rodman: Derrick can't win by himself

[houheffna]

This might be true. But this is how the bulls won. Put the ball in roses hand and let him make a play. It worked against miami in the regular season. I also feel the bulls were young and thus overwhelmed by the situation. Nobody really expected them to get that far that fast.

And I personnaly thing they have plenty of offensive firepower. They just don't have enough plan B and C plays.

The championship bulls would run an offense and then be able to adjust according to how the defense played them.

I only saw something similar one time during the 11 playoff run. When the pacers PG was playing rose 90 feet. And rose used that agression against him and backdoored him for a dunk.

I really blame thibs more than anyone else. And then I also think its the bulls age. And the fact that miami came into that series with a chip on their shoulder.

Those guys on Indiana did better than you are saying...George and some of the other big guards/forwards gave him problems in that series. And none of them are 1st team all league defenders...Lebron is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.

And I remember distinctly on ESPN, Yahoo Sports and radio stations in Miami stating that Rose was nothing more than a reincarnation of Lebron's Cavaliers. And he wouldn't be able to win that way. That criticism was there half of the year.

At the end of the day, we can blame who we want, but the Heat were the better team...that's the bottom line.

 

[97Bulls]

Rose shot 6% from the field when guarded by Lebron James...he didn't get past Lebron routinely. Lebron got to his head. He trash talked Rose and was one of the main reasons Rose was depressed after that series...

James was the initial defender. But that was a team effort. I saw and the commentators saw it. It was a classic case of sever the head. Rose was the bulls whole offense. That was thibs fault.

I also feel that unlike the championship bulls, this bulls team defense isn't the same.

They're not natural defenders. They have to be in the offense to stay defensive minded. They can't just watch rose take shot after shot. Except for noah and bogans. Deng is a good defender but kinda fall asleep when he's not getting touches. Thibs needs to find ways to get evryone more involved as well as rose.

 

[97Bulls]

Those guys on Indiana did better than you are saying...George and some of the other big guards/forwards gave him problems in that series. And none of them are 1st team all league defenders...Lebron is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.

And I remember distinctly on ESPN, Yahoo Sports and radio stations in Miami stating that Rose was nothing more than a reincarnation of Lebron's Cavaliers. And he wouldn't be able to win that way. That criticism was there half of the year.

At the end of the day, we can blame who we want, but the Heat were the better team...that's the bottom line.

But that's the thing. They don't have to be the cavs 2.0. I never understood how or why people could say the bulls offense was bad. You have two guys that can get you 18-20 ppg and have done it throughout their career in deng and boozer. And another guy that really gets you double figure points off garbage plays and hustle in noah. You have arguably the best shooter in the league in korver. Even though he didn't show it in the ecf.

What was wrong with their offense is that it depends on rose too much.

 

[houheffna]

James was the initial defender. But that was a team effort. I saw and the commentators saw it. It was a classic case of sever the head. Rose was the bulls whole offense. That was thibs fault.

I also feel that unlike the championship bulls, this bulls team defense isn't the same.

They're not natural defenders. They have to be in the offense to stay defensive minded. They can't just watch rose take shot after shot. Except for noah and bogans. Deng is a good defender but kinda fall asleep when he's not getting touches. Thibs needs to find ways to get evryone more involved as well as rose.

There was NOTHING wrong with that defense...except for when Asik was hurt, Miami could do nothing with that defense. Look at Wade's numbers against the Bulls compared to the rest of the playoffs...they shut him down.

James did the same thing to Rose that Pippen used to do to point guards in the 1990's...of course someone steps up, IF Rose gets past Lebron...but Rose didn't get past Lebron.

Lebron > Rose is the main reason the Bulls lost that series. Period. Its not Thibs fault that guys missed open shots and didn't take advantage of the situation when they should have. You can't make something from nothing, they have to get personnel that can do what is needed offensively. Defense wasn't the problem. You are totally wrong about that. All season the Bulls defense stepped up when they struggled offensively. They had the best defense in the league.

Deng didn't fall asleep, Deng was busy guarding the best player in the league and did a pretty good job. To expect him to then score 25 points a night while guarding Lebron is too much.

 

[houheffna]

But that's the thing. They don't have to be the cavs 2.0. I never understood how or why people could say the bulls offense was bad. You have two guys that can get you 18-20 ppg and have done it throughout their career in deng and boozer. And another guy that really gets you double figure points off garbage plays and hustle in noah. You have arguably the best shooter in the league in korver. Even though he didn't show it in the ecf.

What was wrong with their offense is that it depends on rose too much.

The Cavs had a couple of guys who could score 18-20 in Jamison and Williams...and they depended on Lebron to start the offense and ofttimes finish the offense. That is the reason for the comparison. Eventually defenses would wear Lebron down and his sidekicks failed to step up. Same with the Bulls.

 

[97Bulls]

Rose needs to learn to be a better team player. And learn how to utilize his team for his benifit. He deserved the mvp. But he really took too many shots. The team would bbe better served with rose taking about 17 shots an game. Not in the low 20s. A nice number for him would be 21/8. It should be 10 but he's not a pure PG. He has a scorers mentality.

 

[97Bulls]

The Cavs had a couple of guys who could score 18-20 in Jamison and Williams...and they depended on Lebron to start the offense and ofttimes finish the offense. That is the reason for the comparison. Eventually defenses would wear Lebron down and his sidekicks failed to step up. Same with the Bulls.

But lests be fair. Jamison was old and williams was inconsistant. I see the compariosn in that the coaches put too much into one players hands. The bulls are much more talented than those cavs teams. Much more

 

[nwfisch]

Rose needs to learn to be a better team player. And learn how to utilize his team for his benifit. He deserved the mvp. But he really took too many shots. The team would bbe better served with rose taking about 17 shots an game. Not in the low 20s. A nice number for him would be 21/8. It should be 10 but he's not a pure PG. He has a scorers mentality.

If Korver, Noah, Deng, Brewer, everyone else and Boozer aren't making shots, why pass to them?

 

[97Bulls]

There was NOTHING wrong with that defense...except for when Asik was hurt, Miami could do nothing with that defense. Look at Wade's numbers against the Bulls compared to the rest of the playoffs...they shut him down.

James did the same thing to Rose that Pippen used to do to point guards in the 1990's...of course someone steps up, IF Rose gets past Lebron...but Rose didn't get past Lebron.

Lebron > Rose is the main reason the Bulls lost that series. Period. Its not Thibs fault that guys missed open shots and didn't take advantage of the situation when they should have. You can't make something from nothing, they have to get personnel that can do what is needed offensively. Defense wasn't the problem. You are totally wrong about that. All season the Bulls defense stepped up when they struggled offensively. They had the best defense in the league.

Deng didn't fall asleep, Deng was busy guarding the best player in the league and did a pretty good job. To expect him to then score 25 points a night while guarding Lebron is too much.

Lol I'm telling you why its his fault. He made no adjustments. The heat trapped rose. I posted the clip of barkley saying it. I saw it, my friends saw it. The pick and roll wasn't working cuz of the way the heat played it and because rose has that scorers mentality. He would come off the pick looking to score. Instead of looking at what the defense gave him.


Its what happens when a defense focusses on a ball dominant guard. They're not used to giving it up. You can tell rose was out of his element.

And deng did a terrible job guarding james. After that series, james was being called the best ever by a lot of people. Incuding pippen. Lol

Now look at shawn marion. Who defended james the next round. He did a great job on him. But think about marions game. He really scores off put backs and garbage plays. He gonna play defense no matter how many touches he gets. That's the difference deng isn't like that. The more shots he gets, thebetter his defense is.

 

[DCguy]

Who was he going to pass to?

To the open man, like he did in the last two postseason wins.

 

[houheffna]

But lests be fair. Jamison was old and williams was inconsistant. I see the compariosn in that the coaches put too much into one players hands. The bulls are much more talented than those cavs teams. Much more

Jamison looked old when he was getting his butt kicked by Garnett. Williams was just as inconsistent as Deng can be. Boozer was hurt remember, and neither Jamison or Williams had to guard anyone the caliber of Lebron.

I do believe this Bulls team was more talented, which is why I don't think any one person is to blame. Noah didn't step up, Boozer was inconsistent/bad all postseason.

I agree with you about Rose being more of a creator...but those guys have to hit shots too. They need to show Rose that they can be trusted to make things happen.

 

[97Bulls]

If Korver, Noah, Deng, Brewer, everyone else and Boozer aren't making shots, why pass to them?

Passing the ball to someone isn't. The soul answer. You must aso pass it to someone that's gonna be taking a shot in their comfort zone. The only player that was missing shots I thought they should've made was korver.

Tthis is why it goes back to that pick and roll. You trap rose and now he must try to pass to someone that's gonna have to take a long jumpshot or go off the dribble.

Now if the shots the players are making are comfort zone shots and they're just missed or highly contested then there really is nothing you can do about that. Cuz youre having a bad night, and or the team your playing is better than you.

Besides. Rose wasn't making his shots either

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

What people don't seem to want to admit about the Bulls is that they are a regular season team. Not a playoff team. The same is true about the LeBron Cavs the past 2 seasons.

-Great depth
-Nice roleplayers that can all bring something different to the table
-No versatile players offensively- very one-dimensional outside of Rose
-can beat the crappy defenses of the league. But when faced against a great defense... it's like their offense runs into a brick wall.

It was basically Rose versus the entire Heat defense.

 

[houheffna]

Lol I'm telling you why its his fault. He made no adjustments. The heat trapped rose. I posted the clip of barkley saying it. I saw it, my friends saw it. The pick and roll wasn't working cuz of the way the heat played it and because rose has that scorers mentality. He would come off the pick looking to score. Instead of looking at what the defense gave him.


Its what happens when a defense focusses on a ball dominant guard. They're not used to giving it up. You can tell rose was out of his element.

And deng did a terrible job guarding james. After that series, james was being called the best ever by a lot of people. Incuding pippen. Lol

Now look at shawn marion. Who defended james the next round. He did a great job on him. But think about marions game. He really scores off put backs and garbage plays. He gonna play defense no matter how many touches he gets. That's the difference deng isn't like that. The more shots he gets, thebetter his defense is.

Lebron only shot 50% from the field once against the Bulls...he did it 3 times against the Mavs...Lebron's problem was that he wouldn't shoot and stopped being aggressive. Dallas didn't have the means to defend as well as Chicago did, and they didn't. Nowitzki being the man and Lebron cowering is why they lost

Marion is not a better defender than Deng is....Lebron stopped Lebron...not Marion. The stuff you are saying about Deng is really off. Deng didn't need a bunch of touches because he was guarding the best player in the world. It was up to others to step up offensively.

You, your friends and Charles Barkley don't want to give Lebron just due for what he did in that series. Lebron shut Rose down...period.

 

[97Bulls]

Jamison looked old when he was getting his butt kicked by Garnett. Williams was just as inconsistent as Deng can be. Boozer was hurt remember, and neither Jamison or Williams had to guard anyone the caliber of Lebron.

I do believe this Bulls team was more talented, which is why I don't think any one person is to blame. Noah didn't step up, Boozer was inconsistent/bad all postseason.

I agree with you about Rose being more of a creator...but those guys have to hit shots too. They need to show Rose that they can be trusted to make things happen.

But you can't do that when your getting the ball in a spot your not comfortable having it in. For example, noah would be the player setting the pick. This starts off bad cuz now your best rebounder is out of the paint (thibs fault) then, the heat know that iif noah gets the ball outside the paint, he's a psuedo PG. He now has to be the decision maker. Advatange heat again. The heat thus trap rose baseline cuz they know he's looking to get open for a shot opportunity. And more often than not he's looking for the opprtunity to drive to the basket. All the heat players are waiting for this. So noah stay outside as a safety valve. Which is fine with the heat. Rose passes the ball back to noah. And then goes back gets the ball and either tries it again or goes iso. Now mind you, there probably about 8 seconds on the clock. Everybody in the gym know what he's gonna do. They were just too predictable.

I could've outcoached thibs. That pick and roll mayve worked vs a team with bigs that aren't as athletic as the heat like the lakers. But bosh and anthony are very good athletes and could stay with rose. Or move eneough to bother him.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Which is exactly why Rose needs a real 2 guard that actually can score......The Bogans brigade just won't cut it next season...Rose was EXPOSED in the conferance finals...Therefor other teams know just how to deal with him now....Which is why I keep bringing up J.R Smith..Not only could he keep double teams off Rose, but his gangster personality could get under opposing players skin, getting them off there game..Kind of like Ron Artest or Rodman, only Thibbs will have to work on JR's defense which can be done......(continued on the "2guard solution" thread)

 

[97Bulls]

What people don't seem to want to admit about the Bulls is that they are a regular season team. Not a playoff team. The same is true about the LeBron Cavs the past 2 seasons.

-Great depth
-Nice roleplayers that can all bring something different to the table
-No versatile players offensively- very one-dimensional outside of Rose
-can beat the crappy defenses of the league. But when faced against a great defense... it's like their offense runs into a brick wall.

It was basically Rose versus the entire Heat defense.

Very true rami. But thibs needs to implement an offense that will expose the players strengths. And as we all know, the bulls need another guy that can create his own shot.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Noah really isn't at much fault in all of this. The reason Noah spent much of the time off of the offensive boards is because he was sadly the second best playmaker on the floor for the Bulls at the time. Boozer was expected to be the guy Rose dished it off to when he was double-teamed but that did not turn out to be a good option.

Thibodeau felt like putting in Asik, Gibson, and Brewer instead of Noah, Boozer, and Korver simply because that was the way he probably felt was the more realistic way to beat the Heat- to ensure that at least their defense would be better.

There aren't many plays you can run for those guys but there aren't many you can run for Boozer, Noah, and Korver either because they can't create that much on their own either.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Wait...where's the part where Rodman blames the refs? Just sayin'...that has to be somewhere in that conversation...

lol

 

[97Bulls]

Lebron only shot 50% from the field once against the Bulls...he did it 3 times against the Mavs...Lebron's problem was that he wouldn't shoot and stopped being aggressive. Dallas didn't have the means to defend as well as Chicago did, and they didn't. Nowitzki being the man and Lebron cowering is why they lost

Marion is not a better defender than Deng is....Lebron stopped Lebron...not Marion. The stuff you are saying about Deng is really off. Deng didn't need a bunch of touches because he was guarding the best player in the world. It was up to others to step up offensively.

You, your friends and Charles Barkley don't want to give Lebron just due for what he did in that series. Lebron shut Rose down...period.

James didn't shoot cuz he wasn't open. Thanks in large part to marion. He did miss some shots that he made in the chicago series though. And I don't think marion stopped lebron. But he did an amzing job on james. With the help of chandler and haywood until he got injured.

Truth be told, the reason dallas won was cuz james got ate up by terry. And for whatever reason, wade didn't defend jose juan. Cuz dirk really didn't shoot all that good.

And I'm telling you james didn't "shut down" rose as if he defended him on his own. Not that I think it matters. Cuz as I'm starting to notice from you. You don't really care about proof. Unless it comes from sam smith. Maybe if sam smith told you james was the sole reaon for roses troubles you believe it.

I sense you getting defensive about james. Maybe a little man-crush? Lol.