Rose is waking up!

[Enasic]

Hey, if running out of patience for consistent level of quality play from your 20m dollar, franchise PG is a typical chicago fan outlook, then so be it. For a variety of reasons, Rose hasn't been a consistent producer since 2011-2012. Up until yesterday, he failed to put together consecutive 20 point games. His PER is just above 10 right now and his TS% is hovering around 40. Honestly, it's amazing that guys can't see the reason to be pessimistic with the guy. Like I said, it would be great if his play continues and even grows into something better, but until I see at least a month of consistent play, I'll continue to be pessimistic but at the same time, will be hoping he keeps it up. That to me, is extremely fair.

 

[GalePayton]

Actually, it wasn't an exaggeration. But that seems to be too much for some people to handle. His numbers were god awful for over 20 games. Yes, in the discussion for worst starting PG in the league. There's really no way around that. He's had 3 good games in a row. It's encouraging. Obviously, no one should start the parade yet but it's good to see.

Hasn't it been explained to you multiple times that he was still injured and fighting double vision?

 

[knoxville7]

Hasn't it been explained to you multiple times that he was still injured and fighting double vision?

hasn't that been the case since 2011???

 

[Alpha Male]

On the flip side, there has been an incredible amount of near sightedness when it comes to this situation. We are talking about a guy that had his face broken in the 1st hour of training camp, had to sit in a low light room with minimal activity for nearly 2 weeks, has suffered from double vision all year after surgery, sprained his ankle about 10 games in, and yet somehow none of that was ever factored into how he is performing. It was all "Rose sucks now but we can't trade him" or "Rose is the worst PG in the league" strictly because he was struggling after everything I listed above. The lack of patience from fans, not only when it comes to Rose, but the team as a whole has been astounding. Some of us on here who preached patience from the start are now seeing the rewards for that patience. I'm not throwing that fact in anyone's face though but it is nice to see it paying off.

Im sorry but you can't blame injuries for his poor play. Playing through injuries is part of the game. If he is healthy enough to play 30 mpg then there are no excuses. All the injuries you listed are minor compared to his knee injuries which he should be fully healed from. If we are going to blame injuries for derricks poor play then he has an eternal excuse since he is always injured. I like his recent play but I am still a skeptic until i see consistency.

 

[Alpha Male]

Hasn't it been explained to you multiple times that he was still injured and fighting double vision?

Not an excuse.

 

[Enasic]

Hasn't it been explained to you multiple times that he was still injured and fighting double vision?

Yes. Hasn't it been explained to you that he still hasn't consistently produced in over 4 years for a variety of reasons? No one knew/knows the extent of his vision issues. It seems he's playing with more burst and explosiveness. He's finishing at the rim a lot better. There seems to be a disconnect over the results of Derrick's play and the possible reasons of his play. All I'm asking is for some consistency. It seems like if he was suffering vision issues, they seem to be in the past. Can I expect consistency now or if he has another bad stretch, is it going to be contributed to his vision?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well I suppose we'll see Kyrie average 20 points from this point forward just to prove this point

 

[GalePayton]

Yes. Hasn't it been explained to you that he still hasn't consistently produced in over 4 years for a variety of reasons? No one knew/knows the extent of his vision issues.

He has said many times that he was having double vision, so yes we actually did know the extent of his vision issues.

Regarding him not being consistent over the last 4 years ... Well newsflash! ... He's been battling various major injuries during that time.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

you do realize he is averaging just 5 assists per game, good for 26th in the league, right?(behind guys like delladova and ish smith) excuse me if I don't get wowed over that :shrug:

also, to put his assist totals in perspective when you look at assist ratios, derrick is ranked 67th in the league. good for 3rd on his own team behind a backup PG named kirk hinrich and behind his backup center joakim noah(who is 7th in the entire league)

derricks PER is good for 250th in the league!!! he isn't even the top rated PG on his own team!!!(that's aaron brooks sadly ahead of him). literally theres only 1 bulls player with a lower PER than derrick and that's tony snell, the other guy you seem to love so much. I guess you just like to support the two worst players on the team for some weird reason lol

And you do realize that 5 assists is what the average NBA point guard averages per36 minutes, right? Rose plays about 32 minutes per game.

And Rose's assist to turnover ratio is like 2:1 so that is fairly sufficient.

PER is the most overrated statistic being used to measure players right now. It is a combination of stats like points, rebounds, and assists and shooting percentages minus turnovers jumbled into a formula. It fails to account for opponent field goal percentage and a lot of aspects of individual play.

If you want to figure out who is better between Rose, as bad as he has been by his standards this season, and Aaron Brooks, watch the games. You'll see Brooks get lit up and the opposing point guard going on a tear when Rose hits the bench.

As for Tony Snell, he's getting more minutes than Moore and Hinrich for a reason. He serves a purpose on both sides of the court. If you think Rose and Snell are this team's two worst players, you don't know basketball.

 

[knoxville7]

And you do realize that 5 assists is what the average NBA point guard averages per36 minutes, right? Rose plays about 32 minutes per game.

And Rose's assist to turnover ratio is like 2:1 so that is fairly sufficient.

PER is the most overrated statistic being used to measure players right now. It is a combination of stats like points, rebounds, and assists and shooting percentages minus turnovers jumbled into a formula. It fails to account for opponent field goal percentage and a lot of aspects of individual play.

If you want to figure out who is better between Rose, as bad as he has been by his standards this season, and Aaron Brooks, watch the games. You'll see Brooks get lit up and the opposing point guard going on a tear when Rose hits the bench.

As for Tony Snell, he's getting more minutes than Moore and Hinrich for a reason. He serves a purpose on both sides of the court. If you think Rose and Snell are this team's two worst players, you don't know basketball.

right so that's a pretty good starting point to determine how effective a player has been still. and I never said brooks is a better player overall than rose, my point is the fact that its even a conversation should tell you all you need to know about how he has played this year.

and im not sure that if you took the starting 32 point guards in the league and averaged their assists that it would come to 5....I think youre just saying that to say it. I at least pulled some REAL stats to back up my argument unlike you, but I don't blame you since there are NO stats that would show derrick has been good this year :shrug:

 

[Enasic]

He has said many times that he was having double vision, so yes we actually did know the extent of his vision issues.

Regarding him not being consistent over the last 4 years ... Well newsflash! ... He's been battling various major injuries during that time.

Really? What a shocker. Again, another reason guys are pessimistic. How many players can you name that were practically irrelevant for four years and then came back to be an elite player? Is there a precedent? If not, it seems like it's somewhat silly to be as optimistic as you are.

Also, just because Derrick said he was suffering vision issues, doesn't mean anyone knows the true extent of it, how much it improved over time, or where he's at now. All I know is his form on his jumper looks a lot better, he's more engaged, and he looks more explosive. Did his vision prevent him from showing that before? I honestly don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Are you convinced his vision problems are a non factor now, or if he has another bad stretch, will it be attributed to the vision problems? Basically, what I'm asking is: How long are you willing to excuse his poor play if he doesn't keep having more of these recent types of games?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Hey, if running out of patience for consistent level of quality play from your 20m dollar, franchise PG is a typical chicago fan outlook, then so be it. For a variety of reasons, Rose hasn't been a consistent producer since 2011-2012. Up until yesterday, he failed to put together consecutive 20 point games. His PER is just above 10 right now and his TS% is hovering around 40. Honestly, it's amazing that guys can't see the reason to be pessimistic with the guy. Like I said, it would be great if his play continues and even grows into something better, but until I see at least a month of consistent play, I'll continue to be pessimistic but at the same time, will be hoping he keeps it up. That to me, is extremely fair.

There is more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic. He's relatively young and is a former league MVP. He's had incredibly bad fortune with his string of injuries, but you pay a guy that much because there is a definite possibility that he can lead you to a championship someday. He hasn't played well consistently since 2012, but how often has he been injury free long enough to actually get into a rhythm in order to be consistent?

There are so many players out there right now who are clearly playing better than Rose right now who Rose can potentially leap frog if he continues to be injury free for a sustained amount of time. That's why you give the man his money.

 

[knoxville7]

There is more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic. He's relatively young and is a former league MVP. He's had incredibly bad fortune with his string of injuries, but you pay a guy that much because there is a definite possibility that he can lead you to a championship someday. He hasn't played well consistently since 2012, but how often has he been injury free long enough to actually get into a rhythm in order to be consistent?

There are so many players out there right now who are clearly playing better than Rose right now who Rose can potentially leap frog if he continues to be injury free for a sustained amount of time. That's why you give the man his money.

bulls would happily rescind that contract if it was possible to do so

 

[Enasic]

There is more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic.

How??? He hasn't been very good in over 4 years. If anything, I would say take a cautious wait and see approach. But it's a tough sell to say there's more reason to be optimistic.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

right so that's a pretty good starting point to determine how effective a player has been still. and I never said brooks is a better player overall than rose, my point is the fact that its even a conversation should tell you all you need to know about how he has played this year.

and im not sure that if you took the starting 32 point guards in the league and averaged their assists that it would come to 5....I think youre just saying that to say it. I at least pulled some REAL stats to back up my argument unlike you, but I don't blame you since there are NO stats that would show derrick has been good this year :shrug:

You just called Rose and Snell the two worst players on the team:

literally theres only 1 bulls player with a lower PER than derrick and that's tony snell, the other guy you seem to love so much. I guess you just like to support the two worst players on the team for some weird reason lol

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/position/point-guards

5 was actually being generous.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

How??? He hasn't been very good in over 4 years. If anything, I would say take a cautious wait and see approach. But it's a tough sell to say there's more reason to be optimistic.

"How" is literally everything you just deleted from what you just quoted.

Chicago fans are spoiled. If Michael Jordan isn't on the team, there is always more reason to be pessimistic than optimistic.

 

[knoxville7]

You just called Rose and Snell the two worst players on the team:




http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/position/point-guards

5 was actually being generous.

that doesn't show an average of the starting PG's assists so try again

and the reason I mentioned rose and snell as the worst on the team is based off of expectations. brooks on the other hand has been exactly what we expected from him

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

bulls would happily rescind that contract if it was possible to do so

Are you sure about that? I'm actually not. Seeing as Rose has banked in way more money for the Bulls over the years than he has cost them. And he still has banked in money during his recent injury seasons based on nothing more than false hopes.

 

[Enasic]

"How" is literally everything you just deleted from what you just quoted.

Chicago fans are spoiled. If Michael Jordan isn't on the team, there is always more reason to be pessimistic than optimistic.

The fact that he's young and a former MVP doesn't exactly equate to optimism about his future. Now I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom with him, but I'll take a cautious wait and see approach. That to me makes more sense considering 4 years of let down. And yes, I know it was because of injuries. That's not what I'm debating which many of you keep coming back to. I haven't seen many, if any players be a ghost in the league for 4 years and then all of a sudden tear up the league again. Maybe he can do it, and props to him...but until I see it, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

that doesn't show an average of the starting PG's assists so try again

and the reason I mentioned rose and snell as the worst on the team is based off of expectations. brooks on the other hand has been exactly what we expected from him

Who expected Snell to be great again?

And all it would take is some basic math ability to see based on that leader board which shows assist averages and number of minutes in order from most to least.

Rose clearly falls in the top half of NBA point guards in terms of every category in terms of assists.