Rose is waking up!

[Axl Rose]

He wasn't even a bottom 3 starting point guard. He was not a worse player than over 100 other point guards in the league. That is just an exaggeration.

no its not

statically he was awful (and still is but is steady improving with his recent play) and you also take in consideration the role and opportunity Derrick has and the case is there for him being the worst point guard in the league

he was certainly at the bottom of starting point guards theres no doubt in that

just a month ago Rose had a TS% of .407 which is ungodly terrible. (it was actually a worse mark than Kobe had at the time even and we all know how bad Kobe had been) and his per was below 10

those would be atrocious stats for any player but for a guy like Derrick whose value comes from scoring the ball? wow

go head and say stats don't mean anything but i'll say the same thing i said about Kirk, it comes a point when the stats are so bad you can't ignore them...you can't ignore .407 TS% and sub 50% at the hoop...Derrick was horrid

 

[Enasic]

no its not

statically he was awful (and still is but is steady improving with his recent play) and you also take in consideration the role and opportunity Derrick has and the case is there for him being the worst point guard in the league

he was certainly at the bottom of starting point guards theres no doubt in that

just a month ago Rose had a TS% of .407 which is ungodly terrible. (it was actually a worse mark than Kobe had at the time even and we all know how bad Kobe had been) and his per was below 10

those would be atrocious numbers for any player but for a guy like Derrick whose value comes from scoring the ball? wow

go head and say stats don't mean anything but i'll say the same thing i said about Kirk, it comes a point when the stats are so bad you can't ignore them...you can't ignore .407 TS% and sub 50% at the hoop...Derrick was horrid

This is too much for people to handle. Guys on this forum get weirdly defensive when it comes to certain players and even their own team. No one is saying that Rose can't improve, but the reality is for most of the season, he has played like a bottom of the barrel starting PG. Whether he was the 5th worst, 10th, or 3rd, it really doesn't matter. When he was playing like an MVP people loved to look at his numbers, advanced and otherwise. No reason to ignore his numbers now and try to say he wasn't terrible for most of the year. It would be great if he can keep this up and I wouldn't rule it out. But that doesn't erase the reality of over 20 games.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rose was pretty terrible during the first 20 games or so and to say otherwise is silly.

I will throw out that Rose has never really been a model of efficiency (40% TS% is still bad obviously) so that argument for why he sucks doesn't concern me as much as something like FG% around the rim.

 

[Axl Rose]

This is too much for people to handle. Guys on this forum get weirdly defensive when it comes to certain players and even their own team. No one is saying that Rose can't improve, but the reality is for most of the season, he has played like a bottom of the barrel starting PG. Whether he was the 5th worst, 10th, or 3rd, it really doesn't matter. When he was playing like an MVP people loved to look at his numbers, advanced and otherwise. No reason to ignore his numbers now and try to say he wasn't terrible for most of the year. It would be great if he can keep this up and I wouldn't rule it out. But that doesn't erase the reality of over 20 games.

agree i don't even have a problem with ppl saying "i told you so" about Rose improving but to act like he was never a issue and it was some odd conspiracy that everybody was against Derrick is laughable

 

[Enasic]

agree i don't even have a problem with ppl saying "i told you so" about Rose improving but to act like he was never a issue and it was some odd conspiracy that everybody was against Derrick is laughable

Agreed. Obviously Derrick continuing to play well would help this team out tremendously. I'd like to see it continue.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

no its not

statically he was awful (and still is but is steady improving with his recent play) and you also take in consideration the role and opportunity Derrick has and the case is there for him being the worst point guard in the league

he was certainly at the bottom of starting point guards theres no doubt in that

just a month ago Rose had a TS% of .407 which is ungodly terrible. (it was actually a worse mark than Kobe had at the time even and we all know how bad Kobe had been) and his per was below 10

those would be atrocious stats for any player but for a guy like Derrick whose value comes from scoring the ball? wow

go head and say stats don't mean anything but i'll say the same thing i said about Kirk, it comes a point when the stats are so bad you can't ignore them...you can't ignore .407 TS% and sub 50% at the hoop...Derrick was horrid

The bad scoring efficiency is a huge issue. However, to say he was one of the worst point guards in the league was just wrong. There were a few starters struggling more than him all season. There are so many bench players at his position who would do so much worse than Rose has to start the season in the same role Rose is in.

 

[Axl Rose]

The bad scoring efficiency is a huge issue. However, to say he was one of the worst point guards in the league was just wrong. There were a few starters struggling more than him all season. There are so many bench players at his position who would do so much worse than Rose has to start the season in the same role Rose is in.

if you want to split hairs then yeah hes probably better than that PG rotting away on the Utah Jazz bench getting no minutes. he was still one of the worst players in the league that actually has a role on a team.

 

[Diddy1122]

This is too much for people to handle. Guys on this forum get weirdly defensive when it comes to certain players and even their own team. No one is saying that Rose can't improve, but the reality is for most of the season, he has played like a bottom of the barrel starting PG. Whether he was the 5th worst, 10th, or 3rd, it really doesn't matter. When he was playing like an MVP people loved to look at his numbers, advanced and otherwise. No reason to ignore his numbers now and try to say he wasn't terrible for most of the year. It would be great if he can keep this up and I wouldn't rule it out. But that doesn't erase the reality of over 20 games.

On the flip side, there has been an incredible amount of near sightedness when it comes to this situation. We are talking about a guy that had his face broken in the 1st hour of training camp, had to sit in a low light room with minimal activity for nearly 2 weeks, has suffered from double vision all year after surgery, sprained his ankle about 10 games in, and yet somehow none of that was ever factored into how he is performing. It was all "Rose sucks now but we can't trade him" or "Rose is the worst PG in the league" strictly because he was struggling after everything I listed above. The lack of patience from fans, not only when it comes to Rose, but the team as a whole has been astounding. Some of us on here who preached patience from the start are now seeing the rewards for that patience. I'm not throwing that fact in anyone's face though but it is nice to see it paying off.

 

[Axl Rose]

we have sat back and dealt with 2 season ending injuries and a slew of other injuires that have sidelined Derrick. there is nomore patience to be had.

we have a team whose expiration date has already passed in my honest opinion. theres no patience to be had. we have the right to be jumpy and have a doomsday outlook on things, whether its an overreaction or not.

theres not much to be optimistic about with this team. times up. its either shit or get off the pot.

 

[knoxville7]

The bad scoring efficiency is a huge issue. However, to say he was one of the worst point guards in the league was just wrong. There were a few starters struggling more than him all season. There are so many bench players at his position who would do so much worse than Rose has to start the season in the same role Rose is in.

if you don't think rose was terrible this season up until these last few games then you are exactly the picture above. no matter how you want to slice it he has been absolutely horrendous. lets see if he can keep his level of play where its been the last couple games consistently before we go getting all excited. this is what derrick has been doing the last few years....giving us lil tastes every once and a while to keep us interested in him

 

[Enasic]

On the flip side, there has been an incredible amount of near sightedness when it comes to this situation. We are talking about a guy that had his face broken in the 1st hour of training camp, had to sit in a low light room with minimal activity for nearly 2 weeks, has suffered from double vision all year after surgery, sprained his ankle about 10 games in, and yet somehow none of that was ever factored into how he is performing. It was all "Rose sucks now but we can't trade him" or "Rose is the worst PG in the league" strictly because he was struggling after everything I listed above. The lack of patience from fans, not only when it comes to Rose, but the team as a whole has been astounding. Some of us on here who preached patience from the start are now seeing the rewards for that patience. I'm not throwing that fact in anyone's face though but it is nice to see it paying off.

Sure, guys were frustrated with his play but were frustrated even before the season started, for a variety of reasons with him. To be fair, he WAS playing like one of the worst starting PGs in the league, so that was perfectly valid. Some fans wanted him traded last season, so again, it's not like the trade talk with him was something new. The fractured orbital bone didn't help any, and you saw the results of a frustrated fan base waiting on a guy for over 4 years, mixed in with some of Derrick's own stupidity and lackluster play over the past couple years. I wouldn't say any of it was unwarranted.

Moving on though, it would be nice to see him start to play very good basketball at a consistent level. Honestly, we haven't seen that since he went down with his ACL. That's a long time to wait. Is it all Derrick's fault it happened? No, but naturally fans are going to get impatient. Especially with some of the crap that comes out of the dudes mouth. Either way, this forum is getting divided over semantics, really. I think everyone here is rooting and hoping for Derrick to play well. I know I am. I'm going to have to see much more, and for a sustained period of time to really buy in fully, but he's got my attention. We'll see how it plays out. Hopefully Jimmy, Rose, Niko, Bobby, and Snell/Doug could all start to play well together at the same time. We haven't really seen that all year.

 

[clonetrooper264]

we have sat back and dealt 2 season ending injuries and a slew of other injuires that have sidelined Derrick...there is nomore patience to be had

we have a team whose expiration date has already passed in my honest opinion....theres no patience to be had....we have the right to be jumpy and have a doomsday outlook on things...what has been optimistic?

I get where you're coming from but it still seems silly to have a "you got injured? TOO BAD PLAY WELL ANYWAY!" sort of attitude toward anyone, even Derrick. No one would rag on Kyrie right now for not putting up 20 every night (probably not the greatest example since he scored 20 the other night) because he's coming back from an injury. But no slack for Derrick, who should be getting over the supposed effects of double vision literally now.

That said, he's fallen far short of even the lowest of expectations after the broken face, so idk. Not saying he's immune to criticism because of the injuries, but it just seems like people are too willing to pretend he's 100% there and just sucking because he sucks.

But really, after so many injuries I can't say I don't understand the mentality so I don't really know what I'm saying to anyone.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

if you don't think rose was terrible this season up until these last few games then you are exactly the picture above. no matter how you want to slice it he has been absolutely horrendous. lets see if he can keep his level of play where its been the last couple games consistently before we go getting all excited. this is what derrick has been doing the last few years....giving us lil tastes every once and a while to keep us interested in him

Terrible by his standards. Yes. Terrible by NBA standards? Not really. At times he's been terrible this season. Other times, he's been very good. He is the starting point guard on a winning team and outplays his match up more often than not. He has been holding his assignment to low scoring efficiency. And has been well above average for assists. He has been above average with his assist output even at his position. And he still demands more defensive attention than most of the guys with a better scoring efficiency so far this season.

 

[Enasic]

Lol, my goodness, the denial.

Anyways,

You think Snell gets a lot of pussy?

 

[knoxville7]

Terrible by his standards. Yes. Terrible by NBA standards? Not really. At times he's been terrible this season. Other times, he's been very good. He is the starting point guard on a winning team and outplays his match up more often than not. He has been holding his assignment to low scoring efficiency. And has been well above average for assists. He has been above average with his assist output even at his position. And he still demands more defensive attention than most of the guys with a better scoring efficiency so far this season.

you do realize he is averaging just 5 assists per game, good for 26th in the league, right?(behind guys like delladova and ish smith) excuse me if I don't get wowed over that :shrug:

also, to put his assist totals in perspective when you look at assist ratios, derrick is ranked 67th in the league. good for 3rd on his own team behind a backup PG named kirk hinrich and behind his backup center joakim noah(who is 7th in the entire league)

derricks PER is good for 250th in the league!!! he isn't even the top rated PG on his own team!!!(that's aaron brooks sadly ahead of him). literally theres only 1 bulls player with a lower PER than derrick and that's tony snell, the other guy you seem to love so much. I guess you just like to support the two worst players on the team for some weird reason lol

 

[Novak]

There's those that look at things objectively, then there's those that just spew their nonsense repeatedly. Must be nice to view everything in a vacuum. Fortunately, that's not how any sport works.

 

[knoxville7]

Lol, my goodness, the denial.

Anyways,

You think Snell gets a lot of pussy?

probably more than the average joe....but if we are compiling stats, I mean clearly derrick and his eyes wide shut type sex parties is at the top of that list. that's one where Rami could make a claim rose is #1 at least lol

 

[Enasic]

probably more than the average joe....but if we are compiling stats, I mean clearly derrick and his eyes wide shut type sex parties is at the top of that list. that's one where Rami could make a claim rose is #1 at least lol

I think Snell needs to slay more booty. He'd probably have more games like yesterday.

 

[Enasic]

There's those that look at things objectively, then there's those that just spew their nonsense repeatedly. Must be nice to view everything in a vacuum. Fortunately, that's not how any sport works.

Just out of curiosity, who's looking at things in a vacuum?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

we have sat back and dealt 2 season ending injuries and a slew of other injuires that have sidelined Derrick. there is nomore patience to be had.

we have a team whose expiration date has already passed in my honest opinion. theres no patience to be had. we have the right to be jumpy and have a doomsday outlook on things, whether its an overreaction or not.

theres not much to be optimistic about with this team. times up. its either shit or get off the pot.

This is just stupid.

Rose is 27 years old. He's had two serious knee injuries and has physically recovered from them as well as anyone could hope. Let's not forget the physical toll it took to carry that Bull's offenses highlighted by Deng and Boozer. Mentally, it makes a lot of sense to be cautious about not letting history repeat itself. Has it caused Rose to be less of a player sense then? Sure, but there is plenty of chance he will come back into all-star form. He is still three years away from 30 and he has an MVP trophy.

This is America. You have the right to have whatever outlook you want. Doesn't mean it's not a typical overly pessimistic Chicago sports fan outlook.

This is the Bulls line-up around Rose from Rose's MVP year:

PG- Watson
SG- Bogans - Brewer
SF- Deng - Korver
PF- Boozer - Gibson
C- Noah - Asik - Thomas

This is the line-up now:

PG- Brooks - Hinrich
SG- Butler
SF - Snell - McDermott
PF - Gibson - Mirotic - Portis
C - Gasol - Noah

I'd say shake ups have already happened and is a lot younger and much more offensively dynamic than in years past. This team is a fringe contender with Rose playing at a high level. Most NBA teams out there would love to have even a glimmer of the hope the Bulls do to contend.