Ryan Dempster Trade Discussion Thread

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Rice Cube

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So who hangs up first on Jurrjens and a B- for Dempster with the cash evened out? Who hangs up first on Minor for Dempter with the cash picked up?

If the Cubs hadn't asked for those two guys already then it might mean the Theo/Jed don't think they're worth it, or the Braves don't think Dempster is worth it. The rumors all say "prospects prospects prospects" but that may be because the writers have absolutely nothing to go on and have to make something up.
 

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take the pick

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Heck, what's the chances of Ryan taking another team friendly contract?

The Cubs still have to field a team :lol:
 

dabynsky

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If the Cubs hadn't asked for those two guys already then it might mean the Theo/Jed don't think they're worth it, or the Braves don't think Dempster is worth it. The rumors all say "prospects prospects prospects" but that may be because the writers have absolutely nothing to go on and have to make something up.

Well if you believe what little has been put out there the Cubs hadn't exchanged specific names with the Braves prior to the Dempster start. So it is possible that talks have really yet to progress to that point, and Goldstein said on Thursday that his source was saying that the Cubs were asking for pitchers that could be in Wrigley in 2012.

And none of what you said answered my questions :cubstroll:
 

Rice Cube

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Heck, what's the chances of Ryan taking another team friendly contract?

The Cubs still have to field a team :lol:

Nobody knows but Ryan Dempster. He's made lots of money but this is basically his last big payday at his age.
 

Rice Cube

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Well if you believe what little has been put out there the Cubs hadn't exchanged specific names with the Braves prior to the Dempster start. So it is possible that talks have really yet to progress to that point, and Goldstein said on Thursday that his source was saying that the Cubs were asking for pitchers that could be in Wrigley in 2012.

And none of what you said answered my questions :cubstroll:

Basically I did answer it...the Braves would hang up first and the Cubs probably wouldn't have asked for them :lol:
 

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Why would you do that? You only do that if the money is an issue, which it is not. Dempster will get us TWO first rounders. First rounders are BY FAR more likely to make it to the major leagues than lower rounds. That's two shots at an MLB player... and relatively good shots at that. You have to get better than that in a trade. One or two prospects likely aren't going to do that, unless they have potential... which is different from just upside.



Right. Since it has been exercised, we might as well get use out of it. IIRC, Sept. call ups do not count as an option, therefore only one has been exercised.



There is TWO compensation picks, the one from another team and the sandwich round. So that's an additional 1MM. I am really thinking that we hang onto him.

Seems like someone hasn't kept informed of the new CBA regulations. Even with the old regulations, Dempster wouldn't fetch two picks. With his poor season last year, he probably would be ranked in the B category of the Elias rankings, thus you wouldn't even get a 1st round pick. Now, the only way he'll fetch a pick at all is if the Cubs offer him $12.5M this off season, and he signs with another team. You can only get one pick from a team, period. It's not even a 1st round pick. It's a single pick in the compensation round. There is no sandwich pick round anymore.

Also, mid-season acquisitions in their contract years are not eligible for obtaining a compensation pick, regardless of whether or not a qualifying offer is made. Hence why there's little value being assigned to rentals this year. They receiving team will get a guy for only 2-3 months, then hold a big risk of losing him this off season with no return at all. Now, if they can work in an extension... or feel they can do so, then you might see that value change suddenly and dramatically.

So, your theories here are nonsense. If the Cubs hang onto Dempster for the sake of trying to acquire a comp pick, they would have to make him a $12.5M offer and hope someone else grants him a more lucrative deal. The again, with how much Dempster loves Chicago, he could accept the deal just to stay put. There's a real risk involved there. If you think Dempster will have the same trade value next year as he does this year, I fear you'd be miserably mistaken.

And... Sept callups don't count as an option or not. The option was burned the moment the player was sent to the minors, be it out of ST... or sent down in some other month. Options are year-long. Once you burn one, it lasts for that whole season.
 

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Seems like someone hasn't kept informed of the new CBA regulations. Even with the old regulations, Dempster wouldn't fetch two picks. With his poor season last year, he probably would be ranked in the B category of the Elias rankings, thus you wouldn't even get a 1st round pick. Now, the only way he'll fetch a pick at all is if the Cubs offer him $12.5M this off season, and he signs with another team. You can only get one pick from a team, period. It's not even a 1st round pick. It's a single pick in the compensation round. There is no sandwich pick round anymore.

Also, mid-season acquisitions in their contract years are not eligible for obtaining a compensation pick, regardless of whether or not a qualifying offer is made. Hence why there's little value being assigned to rentals this year. They receiving team will get a guy for only 2-3 months, then hold a big risk of losing him this off season with no return at all. Now, if they can work in an extension... or feel they can do so, then you might see that value change suddenly and dramatically.

So, your theories here are nonsense. If the Cubs hang onto Dempster for the sake of trying to acquire a comp pick, they would have to make him a $12.5M offer and hope someone else grants him a more lucrative deal. The again, with how much Dempster loves Chicago, he could accept the deal just to stay put. There's a real risk involved there. If you think Dempster will have the same trade value next year as he does this year, I fear you'd be miserably mistaken.

And... Sept callups don't count as an option or not. The option was burned the moment the player was sent to the minors, be it out of ST... or sent down in some other month. Options are year-long. Once you burn one, it lasts for that whole season.

This is your 3rd post about me not knowing the CBA. I get it. I understand my mistake and I do apologize.

How is it nonsense to think that Dempster would decline a 1 year deal? He's 35. This is his last shot at a multi-year deal. The love of Chicago is bullshit. It works both ways. He loves Chicago so he will decline the offer. You just don't know. Where did I say he'd have the same trade value next year? Where do you get this stuff from?
 

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This is your 3rd post about me not knowing the CBA. I get it. I understand my mistake and I do apologize.

How is it nonsense to think that Dempster would decline a 1 year deal? He's 35. This is his last shot at a multi-year deal. The love of Chicago is bullshit. It works both ways. He loves Chicago so he will decline the offer. You just don't know. Where did I say he'd have the same trade value next year? Where do you get this stuff from?

You also can't read. Where did I say it's bullshit that Dempster won't agree to a 1-year deal? I think it's more likely that he'll sign a 2-year deal with a 3rd year team option, but a 1-year deal could be all he gets. What I said is that in order for the team to get a pick for losing him, the team has to offer him a 1-year $12.5M deal... then hope he gets a better offer and turns it down. Oh, and I don't how much the love of Chicago is shot or not. It's the line he himself keeps spewing. If he gets a qualifying offer form the Cubs, and all other offers he gets a 1-year deals in the same range but slightly higher... which do you think he's going to take? Also, if he gets a 2-year deal at $18M.... but a 1-year deal for $12.5M to stay in Chicago (which is what the qualifying offer would be), which do you think he takes? I said keeping him around for the end of this year in hopes he'll bring about a draft pick is risky, particularly when the FO is making it quite clear he's not part of the plans.
 

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Something else to keep in mind about draft pick compensation:
A club that weighs a trade offer for a potential free agent wants to “beat” the quality of the compensation pick it would receive if it kept the player and lost him on the open market.

But, as one executive points out, the value of the pick actually goes beyond that.

The extra selection, under the rules of the new labor agreement, also creates flexibility to manipulate the draft.

The signing bonus pool for each team is based on the number and specific position of its picks in the first 10 rounds; the greater the number, the larger the pool.

The extra dollars, though, can be reallocated any way a club wants. If, for example, a team wants to overpay two players and spend less on the others, the additional money will help.
I'm sure the Cubs would prefer a bird in the hand, but we really don't know what the offers have been. That and I am sure that Theo and Jed have at least asked Dempster something along the lines of "well the best we can offer you next year is something in the area of one year in oh I don't know...12.5 million, interested?" Though part of the calculus is do other teams think signing Dempster would be worth losing their top draft pick.
 

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I was gone over most of the weekend so I missed this in Muskat's blog on Saturday. Don't know if anyone else posted this, but it is certainly interesting:
http://muskat.mlblogs.com/2012/07/21/721-dodgers-on-hold-re-dempster/
The Cubs are believed to be holding out for Lee.

Put that in context with the Goldstein tweet last night, and it becomes a lot less depressing. Lee being a tremendous return that is ruled out but not a good return like a couple of B prospects that have been tossed out by other experts.
 

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They say Lee is LA's best pitching prospect...is he really that good, or is their system really weak?

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dabynsky

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They say Lee is LA's best pitching prospect...is he really that good, or is their system really weak?

Sent via Tapatalk on Droid RAZR MAXX

A little bit of both. The Dodgers system is about the Cubs level, maybe a little bit lower or a little bit higher depending on who you talk to. Lee is a very good prospect that is on just about everyone's midseason top 50 list. Though there have been more than a few whispers that his rankings in publications is more based on reputation and bonus than what he has shown as a pro. FWIW, the Smokies roughed up Lee a couple of nights ago.
 

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A little bit of both. The Dodgers system is about the Cubs level, maybe a little bit lower or a little bit higher depending on who you talk to. Lee is a very good prospect that is on just about everyone's midseason top 50 list. Though there have been more than a few whispers that his rankings in publications is more based on reputation and bonus than what he has shown as a pro. FWIW, the Smokies roughed up Lee a couple of nights ago.

hmm...is he the only pitching prospect worth anything that LA has?
 

dabynsky

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hmm...is he the only pitching prospect worth anything that LA has?

No they have a bunch of other guys, but they are clearly a notch below Lee. There are a bunch of guys in that B to B- range that our system really lacks apart from the guys just added through the draft and Paniagua. Gould, Withrow, Webster, Eovaldi, Reed, and Sanchez would all be in the running for our best pitching prospect which is an indictment of our pitching prospects.

Again we really don't know anything for certain. Everything that we do "know" has to be looked through the prism of why would teams want us to know that (that goes both ways).
 

dabynsky

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This article confuses me greatly because of these two lines:
He could ask for a contract extension from his new team in exchange for waiving his no-trade rights, which, in dealing with certain teams, could complicate the process. It’s this fact that has most likely caused the Dodgers and Nationals to back away and show some reluctance to offer top prospects in a trade for a pitcher who will become a free-agent after this season.

Do these two sentences completely contradict each other or what?

Rest of the article and is straight forward about why Dempster to the Braves makes a fair bit of sense.
http://www.rantsports.com/atlanta-braves/2012/07/22/mlb-rumors-atlanta-braves-emerging-as-leader-in-ryan-dempster-derby/
 

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Jon Morosi on FAN 590 said he hears the Braves are now the favorite for Dempster.
 

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Jon Morosi on FAN 590 said he hears the Braves are now the favorite for Dempster.

Do you remember what the Cubs got by sending Derrek Lee to the Braves?
 

dabynsky

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Do you remember what the Cubs got by sending Derrek Lee to the Braves?
Off the top of my head no. I want to say that one of the two guys they traded back to the Braves for Rodrigo Lopez. I will look it up though.
 

dabynsky

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Wow I was way off on that one. Cubs got 3 prospects that those who follow the minors might actually still know: Jeffrey Lorrick, Ty'Relle Harris and Robison Lopez. None of them are huge impact guys, but both Lorrick and Harris have a chance at being useful bullpen arms.
 
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