Saints Cut OG Warford

[remydat]

I didn't mention warford at all. He's better than every bears lineman, yes.

It's just the fact you literally DEPEND on PFF nonstop for every single player.

Watch some fuckin tape. Stop letting shitty biased statistical outlets develop an opinion for you.

Do you read what people say? I have seen plenty of tape. Unlike you, I like to have something to back my argument beyond my own musings.

So I dont quote PFF because I didnt watch tape oe because they are gospel. I quote them because in a pissing contest about whose subjective views based on tape have more merit, independent sources are better than just saying "I am right because I said so."

You act like you are the only one to watch tape. You aren't. You are simply the only one who thinks their observations based on tape trumps everyone elses no matter the data to the contrary.

 

[playthrough2001]

I didn't mention warford at all. He's better than every bears lineman, yes.

It's just the fact you literally DEPEND on PFF nonstop for every single player.

Watch some fuckin tape. Stop letting shitty biased statistical outlets develop an opinion for you.

He doesn’t know jack shit about football. He ‘s an accountant from the Bahamas that never played a down in his life. He enjoys the sound of his own musings however convoluted they might be.

As a numbers guy, he leans on PFF because he wouldn’t know what to look for when breaking down any position on the field.

 

[playthrough2001]

So let me get this straight ..... you’re saying that Ruiz is less of a gamble than a failed first round pick??

How so? The fact the we know ifedi is shit is 0 gamble I suppose.

If Ruiz busts he will be ifedi at worst. Quite the gamble.

A player with 60 NFL starts for a consistent playoff team isn’t exactly a bust. Also, he was specifically targeted by Castillo as a player he felt he could work with and improve.

I like Ruiz as a prospect but he hasn’t proven anything. Can’t miss guys like DJ Fluker and Jonathan Cooper were wildly disappointing as NFL players and they were both more highly touted than Ruiz. There are a myriad of other examples I could list as well.

My original point to that psychotic posting machine was if Warford was so great, he would have been retained by a win now team.

Also, his pass blocking has taken a massive swan dive and it was one of the main reasons they lost to the Vikings.

 

[remydat]

He doesn’t know jack shit about football. He ‘s an accountant from the Bahamas that never played a down in his life. He enjoys the sound of his own musings however convoluted they might be.

As a numbers guy, he leans on PFF because he wouldn’t know what to look for when breaking down any position on the field.

I am actually also a UNC-Chapel Hill grad that played JV safety for a bit in a failed attempt to walkon before transitioning to being a student athlete tutor for among others Peppers. One of my main jobs being trying to stop him from playing pick up basketball in the gym because coaches didn't want him risking injury playing with regular guys.

Stick to debating the issues kid. No need to get emo about other people's opinions and pretend you know someone's background.

 

[PrideisBears]

He doesn’t know jack shit about football. He ‘s an accountant from the Bahamas that never played a down in his life. He enjoys the sound of his own musings however convoluted they might be.

As a numbers guy, he leans on PFF because he wouldn’t know what to look for when breaking down any position on the field.

U mad? I expect this from msadows

 

[remydat]

A player with 60 NFL starts for a consistent playoff team isn’t exactly a bust. Also, he was specifically targeted by Castillo as a player he felt he could work with and improve.

I like Ruiz as a prospect but he hasn’t proven anything. Can’t miss guys like DJ Fluker and Jonathan Cooper were wildly disappointing as NFL players and they were both more highly touted than Ruiz. There are a myriad of other examples I could list as well.

My original point to that psychotic posting machine was if Warford was so great, he would have been retained by a win now team.

Also, his pass blocking has taken a massive swan dive and it was one of the main reasons they lost to the Vikings.

This is absurd. That is like saying Trubisky is not a bust because he started for the Bears. Ifedi has been terrible for the Seahawks which is why they didn't pick up his 5th year option.

Ifedi may be Ruiz's future but the reason he is better is because Ifedi has already failed while Ruiz has the potential to end up like Ifedi ie a bust or Warford ie a pro bowler. Your argument couldn't be more torturous as you defend a failed prospect while trying to knock the No 1 rated C who hasn't failed yet and a 3 time Pro Bowl.

Warford was cut in large part because he was set to make 12.5 million. He was set to make 12.5 million because he actually earned that contract. Ifedi was dumped by a win now Seahawks team because despite being in the prime of his career he sucked so bad they didn't want to pick up his comparatively cheap 5th year option so he had to settle for a minimum salary job with the Bears because no one valued him enough to pay him more than that.

You have to be completely tone deaf to bash Warford for not being good enough to be worth 12.5 million while simultaneously defending Ifedi and his minimum salary contract.

 

[Tjodalv]

Has the 12 page circle jerk of reiterating the same points ad nauseam ceased yielded anything? Has Larry signed somewhere? Did anyone spend their time away from work doing anything useful?

Inquiring minds really don't want to know. I realize you're all bored; but this?

 

[Bearly]

I'm not even against signing him. It's the 'how could Pace have not signed him yet?' persective that I'm railing against.
When Pace really wants a guy that he thinks is a great fit, difference maker in a position of need, he opens the wallet. If not, he's a bargain shopper. Ifedi is the bargain end of this on a prove it year and position change to make more money next year. He could have easily signed for more elsewhere but was sold on a career resurrection by moving inside... where he belonged to begin with.

Think of Kyle Long playing T in his prime when he was a great G or Daniels trying to move outside. T is much more difficult. Moving the other way tends to be easier unless you're just a finesse guy like Williams was and Spriggs is. It's why I didn't care for either of them on draft day. Top stout college LTs find starter spots if they can't make it at NFL LT. Soft finesse guys, not so much. For me, they weren't slam dunks at LT and likely fails elsewhere on the line.

Long and Whitehair both had success as College Ts but I sure wouldn't use them there in the NFL. Ifedi is better at T than either of them was/would be in the NFL and has enough bull to play inside. He's obviously not a slam dunk but he's been an NFL starter for years at a more difficult position than he will play here. My only concern is if his length may work against him inside but I doubt it.

Seattle didn't move him outside because he didn't play well inside, just the opposite and even his penalties inside weren't nearly as bad. Less than 1 per 2 games. He was still a rookie with plenty to learn but they projected him as capable at T.

In terms of his T play and PFF, here's a fairer perspective. Some of his poorer T grade comes from how long Wilson holds the ball. It's the same as what happens to Houston's improved line with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he belongs inside but he's not the disaster at RT that some want to make it and he's still young.

The Seahawks decline Germain Ifedi’s fifth year option, so what now?

On Thursday the Seattle Seahawks declined the fifth year option on right tackle Germain Ifedi that came along with his status as a first round pick in the 2016 NFL Draft. With the option being...

www.fieldgulls.com

Here's another interesting one. Geoff Schwartz: Someone is going to pay Germain Ifedi top dollar in free agency

 

[dabears70]

I'm trying to understand why this one player getting cut warranted what is now 19 pages of discussion. the Bears aren't getting him. by other various CCS logic if a player is cut by a team that means they're washed up garbage anyway. what am I missing?

Certain posters are looking for ways to make R.Pace look bad every chance they get and will do whatever they can to do that even if it doesn't really make sense like this argument that Pace should sign Warford because he's a RG that has made pro bowls before and he's been better than Ifedi, Coward and Bars have been.

 

[dabears70]

This is absurd. That is like saying Trubisky is not a bust because he started for the Bears. Ifedi has been terrible for the Seahawks which is why they didn't pick up his 5th year option.

Ifedi may be Ruiz's future but the reason he is better is because Ifedi has already failed while Ruiz has the potential to end up like Ifedi ie a bust or Warford ie a pro bowler. Your argument couldn't be more torturous as you defend a failed prospect while trying to knock the No 1 rated C who hasn't failed yet and a 3 time Pro Bowl.

Warford was cut in large part because he was set to make 12.5 million. He was set to make 12.5 million because he actually earned that contract. Ifedi was dumped by a win now Seahawks team because despite being in the prime of his career he sucked so bad they didn't want to pick up his comparatively cheap 5th year option so he had to settle for a minimum salary job with the Bears because no one valued him enough to pay him more than that.

You have to be completely tone deaf to bash Warford for not being good enough to be worth 12.5 million while simultaneously defending Ifedi and his minimum salary contract.

I wonder why they kept him in their starting lineup for so many games if he was so terrible? Just seems odd for a team with one of the better HC's in the NFL and better running games and better offenses in the NFL to keep starting the guy if he was so terrible. You think maybe Pete Carroll is just an idiot or maybe he wasn't as terrible to the actual coaches that were working with him and coaching him every day as he was to people from the outside looking in? I'm going with the latter but i'm one of the ones on the outside looking in so i have no idea.

 

[botfly10]

lul

this Special person thread

 

[bamainatlanta]

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[Chicago4Life]

the guy is still decent but he doesnt fit the bears scheme...castillo is running a zone scheme and warford doesnt move well...this is likely the same reason why osemele was not brought in either.

 

[remydat]

I'm not even against signing him. It's the 'how could Pace have not signed him yet?' persective that I'm railing against.
When Pace really wants a guy that he thinks is a great fit, difference maker in a position of need, he opens the wallet. If not, he's a bargain shopper. Ifedi is the bargain end of this on a prove it year and position change to make more money next year. He could have easily signed for more elsewhere but was sold on a career resurrection by moving inside... where he belonged to begin with.

Think of Kyle Long playing T in his prime when he was a great G or Daniels trying to move outside. T is much more difficult. Moving the other way tends to be easier unless you're just a finesse guy like Williams was and Spriggs is. It's why I didn't care for either of them on draft day. Top stout college LTs find starter spots if they can't make it at NFL LT. Soft finesse guys, not so much. For me, they weren't slam dunks at LT and likely fails elsewhere on the line.

Long and Whitehair both had success as College Ts but I sure wouldn't use them there in the NFL. Ifedi is better at T than either of them was/would be in the NFL and has enough bull to play inside. He's obviously not a slam dunk but he's been an NFL starter for years at a more difficult position than he will play here. My only concern is if his length may work against him inside but I doubt it.

Seattle didn't move him outside because he didn't play well inside, just the opposite and even his penalties inside weren't nearly as bad. Less than 1 per 2 games. He was still a rookie with plenty to learn but they projected him as capable at T.

In terms of his T play and PFF, here's a fairer perspective. Some of his poorer T grade comes from how long Wilson holds the ball. It's the same as what happens to Houston's improved line with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he belongs inside but he's not the disaster at RT that some want to make it and he's still young.

The Seahawks decline Germain Ifedi’s fifth year option, so what now?

On Thursday the Seattle Seahawks declined the fifth year option on right tackle Germain Ifedi that came along with his status as a first round pick in the 2016 NFL Draft. With the option being...

www.fieldgulls.com

Here's another interesting one. Geoff Schwartz: Someone is going to pay Germain Ifedi top dollar in free agency

I dont think anyone is railing about sign him now. It is a negotiation process and we are not near camp so dont have a problem with the waiting game.

What I challenged was the need of some to try and downgrade Warford as a means of preemptively explaining if Pace doesnt sign him.

Then you have a guy like playthrough trying to claim Ifedi is less of a gamble than Ruiz and then harping on the Saints cutting a guy worth 12.5 million while completely ignoring the Seahawks dumped Ifedi when he was set to make even less.

As for his grades, PFF has metrics that attribute pressures and sacks to not just the OL but Wilson himself so Ifedi's grade doesn't reflect the pressures that fall on Wilson.

Russel Wilson for example led the Seahawks as 14 of their sacks and 41 of their total pressures was attributed to him.

Unfortunately Ifedi had the most total pressures with 52 and was second to Wilson in sacks with 7.

So he was simply bad even when you remove the effect of Wilson.

As a tangent, Trubisky accounted for 17 of his sacks ie more than Wilson with 34 combined pressures.

So if the notion here is to blame Wilson, not sure coming to a team with a QB that causes more of his own sacks than Wilson is the solution. Trubs caused more sacks on less QB dropbacks than Wilson and I suspect his 17 sacks caused is probably at the top of the NFL outside of Watson who caused 19 sacks and 54 pressures.

Keep in mind, this is not directed at you but CCS has spun up this narrative as a whole that guys like Watson and Wilson hurt their OL but Trubisky saves sacks when the reality is they all help sometimes and hurt other times because they are mobile QBs. The difference is Watson and Wilson offset that enough with big plays while Trubisky does not.

Sorry bit of a tangent but found the QB sack data interesting when I went looking for the Ifedi stuff. The quick answer though is Ifedi has sucked regardless of Wilson.

 

[remydat]

Forgot to add that take by Schwartz was hilarious as top dollar apparently meant vet minimum.

I wonder what playthrough has to say about the claim Ifedi was going to get 12 million a year and ended up with a 1 year 800k deal. LMFAO!

 

[remydat]

I wonder why they kept him in their starting lineup for so many games if he was so terrible? Just seems odd for a team with one of the better HC's in the NFL and better running games and better offenses in the NFL to keep starting the guy if he was so terrible. You think maybe Pete Carroll is just an idiot or maybe he wasn't as terrible to the actual coaches that were working with him and coaching him every day as he was to people from the outside looking in? I'm going with the latter but i'm one of the ones on the outside looking in so i have no idea.

Because he was a first round pick they were desperate to work out. Eventually they gave up on him. For an example of this, see Trubisky and the Bears.

1st round picks get longer leashes than other picks for obvious reasons.

 

[JesusHalasChrist]

Not sure why there are 20 pages about this. Warford is certainly no future hall of famer Matt Slauson.

 

[Bearly]

I dont think anyone is railing about sign him now. It is a negotiation process and we are not near camp so dont have a problem with the waiting game.

What I challenged was the need of some to try and downgrade Warford as a means of preemptively explaining if Pace doesnt sign him.

Then you have a guy like playthrough trying to claim Ifedi is less of a gamble than Ruiz and then harping on the Saints cutting a guy worth 12.5 million while completely ignoring the Seahawks dumped Ifedi when he was set to make even less.

As for his grades, PFF has metrics that attribute pressures and sacks to not just the OL but Wilson himself so Ifedi's grade doesn't reflect the pressures that fall on Wilson.

Russel Wilson for example led the Seahawks as 14 of their sacks and 41 of their total pressures was attributed to him.

Unfortunately Ifedi had the most total pressures with 52 and was second to Wilson in sacks with 7.

So he was simply bad even when you remove the effect of Wilson.

As a tangent, Trubisky accounted for 17 of his sacks ie more than Wilson with 34 combined pressures.

So if the notion here is to blame Wilson, not sure coming to a team with a QB that causes more of his own sacks than Wilson is the solution. Trubs caused more sacks on less QB dropbacks than Wilson and I suspect his 17 sacks caused is probably at the top of the NFL outside of Watson who caused 19 sacks and 54 pressures.

Keep in mind, this is not directed at you but CCS has spun up this narrative as a whole that guys like Watson and Wilson hurt their OL but Trubisky saves sacks when the reality is they all help sometimes and hurt other times because they are mobile QBs. The difference is Watson and Wilson offset that enough with big plays while Trubisky does not.

Sorry bit of a tangent but found the QB sack data interesting when I went looking for the Ifedi stuff. The quick answer though is Ifedi has sucked regardless of Wilson.

"However, PBE has one major difference compared to PBWR, and that is that it does not take into account how much time an offensive lineman needs to provide protection for the quarterback. So, a tackle such as Trent Brown or Ryan Ramczyk, whose quarterbacks get rid of the ball, have an easier time recording a high PBE than an offensive lineman protecting Russell Wilson. "

 

[SugarWalls]

I'm not even against signing him. It's the 'how could Pace have not signed him yet?' persective that I'm railing against.
When Pace really wants a guy that he thinks is a great fit, difference maker in a position of need, he opens the wallet. If not, he's a bargain shopper. Ifedi is the bargain end of this on a prove it year and position change to make more money next year. He could have easily signed for more elsewhere but was sold on a career resurrection by moving inside... where he belonged to begin with.

Think of Kyle Long playing T in his prime when he was a great G or Daniels trying to move outside. T is much more difficult. Moving the other way tends to be easier unless you're just a finesse guy like Williams was and Spriggs is. It's why I didn't care for either of them on draft day. Top stout college LTs find starter spots if they can't make it at NFL LT. Soft finesse guys, not so much. For me, they weren't slam dunks at LT and likely fails elsewhere on the line.

Long and Whitehair both had success as College Ts but I sure wouldn't use them there in the NFL. Ifedi is better at T than either of them was/would be in the NFL and has enough bull to play inside. He's obviously not a slam dunk but he's been an NFL starter for years at a more difficult position than he will play here. My only concern is if his length may work against him inside but I doubt it.

Seattle didn't move him outside because he didn't play well inside, just the opposite and even his penalties inside weren't nearly as bad. Less than 1 per 2 games. He was still a rookie with plenty to learn but they projected him as capable at T.

In terms of his T play and PFF, here's a fairer perspective. Some of his poorer T grade comes from how long Wilson holds the ball. It's the same as what happens to Houston's improved line with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he belongs inside but he's not the disaster at RT that some want to make it and he's still young.

The Seahawks decline Germain Ifedi’s fifth year option, so what now?

On Thursday the Seattle Seahawks declined the fifth year option on right tackle Germain Ifedi that came along with his status as a first round pick in the 2016 NFL Draft. With the option being...

www.fieldgulls.com

Here's another interesting one. Geoff Schwartz: Someone is going to pay Germain Ifedi top dollar in free agency

Tell me then, what do you think of the Seahawks not signing him, and how about his replacement?

 

[remydat]

"However, PBE has one major difference compared to PBWR, and that is that it does not take into account how much time an offensive lineman needs to provide protection for the quarterback. So, a tackle such as Trent Brown or Ryan Ramczyk, whose quarterbacks get rid of the ball, have an easier time recording a high PBE than an offensive lineman protecting Russell Wilson. "

I did not cite PFFs PBE. I cited their counting stat that shows Ifedi accounted for 7 sacks and 52 pressures. If Wilson held the ball too long then that would be included in Wilson's 14 sacks and 41 pressures.

So Ifedi's sack and pressure stats exclude instances where it was judged that Wilson was at fault. They just dont set 2.5 seconds as a threshold. There will be instances where it is still his fault after 2.5 seconds and instances where it wasn't.

If the play is a 7 step drop and Ifedi had a TE chip to buy time but still got beat within design of play then the pressure or sack is on him as the play was set up to give him and Wilson more time.

If Wilson runs into pressure when if he had stepped up in pocket there would be none then that is on him.