Scottie Pippen

[97Bulls]

Maybe you should read slower buddy...I showcased his FIRST SIX YEARS...as well as Pippen's...

I know what you did. But its not a fair way to compare the two. And it definately doesn't show hill is better.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

There's a whole 'nother story to tell that per-game stats just don't.

In all fairness, it's not like either one of these players weren't amazing. Pippen was better defensively and Hill was better at basically everything else.

 

[Bullsman24]

grant hill was a HELL of a player when he was healthy, it's not like we're comparing him to yaroslev korolev or something, this was a guy who had a chance to be in the top 50 if he stayed healthy, which he didn't and that's why pippen is greater. if grant kept his health, who knows? and i'm a bulls homer.

 

[97Bulls]

There's a whole 'nother story to tell that per-game stats just don't.

In all fairness, it's not like either one of these players weren't amazing. Pippen was better defensively and Hill was better at basically everything else.

What are you talking about? Can you count? They avg the same rebounds over the course of their best seasons. Pippen avg more assists. And the one thing hill has over pippen (scoring) hill has this by the slimest of margins, 1 point. And hill was the 1st option for his team while pippen was second. In fact, the only thing hill did have over pippen is ft%. Pippen 3 pt% was better, he had more steals, more blocks. I didn't calculate, but from looking, pippens fg% is the better too.

Pippen reached the top 5 mvp voting twice to hills once. And pippen had a top 7 finish too. Hill had a 3rd place finish and the rest are 8th and 9th place finishes, and one of the years pippen finished behind hill, I think it was hill finished 9th to pippen 10th, pippen missed 40 games. He'd surely wouldve finished higher if he was injured half the season.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

What are you talking about? Can you count? They avg the same rebounds over the course of their best seasons. Pippen avg more assists. And the one thing hill has over pippen (scoring) hill has this by the slimest of margins, 1 point. And hill was the 1st option for his team while pippen was second. In fact, the only thing hill did have over pippen is ft%. Pippen 3 pt% was better, he had more steals, more blocks. I didn't calculate, but from looking, pippens fg% is the better too.

Pippen reached the top 5 mvp voting twice to hills once. And pippen had a top 7 finish too. Hill had a 3rd place finish and the rest are 8th and 9th place finishes, and one of the years pippen finished behind hill, I think it was hill finished 9th to pippen 10th, pippen missed 40 games. He'd surely wouldve finished higher if he was injured half the season.

Hill was a stronger rebounder and had a higher vertical leap than Pippen.

Hill was easily the better rebounder. Hill was also easily the better play-maker. His handle was a lot better than Pippen's. You talk about Pippen averaging almost as much in his prime (never even as much as Hill's best output). And guess who Pippen had to pass to: Michael Jordan.

And Grant Hill was a better finisher at the rim. He was a much better scorer and there's no denying that.

Hill in his prime > Pippen in his.

If we are talking about longevity then I give it to Pippen.

 

[97Bulls]

Hill was a stronger rebounder and had a higher vertical leap than Pippen.

Hill was easily the better rebounder. Hill was also easily the better play-maker. His handle was a lot better than Pippen's. You talk about Pippen averaging almost as much in his prime (never even as much as Hill's best output). And guess who Pippen had to pass to: Michael Jordan.

And Grant Hill was a better finisher at the rim. He was a much better scorer and there's no denying that.

Hill in his prime > Pippen in his.

If we are talking about longevity then I give it to Pippen.

The one time pippen could played a pg role similar to hiill, he was 36 years old with bad knees and back, he avg 5-6ppg (one less than prime hill) sharing pg duties with the trailblazers. And in limited minutes to boot. My god is everything pippen has done gonna be attributed to jordan?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The one time pippen could played a pg role similar to hiill, he was 36 years old with bad knees and back, he avg 5-6ppg (one less than prime hill) sharing pg duties with the trailblazers. And in limited minutes to boot. My god is everything pippen has done gonna be attributed to jordan?

That statement doesn't take away from anything I, or Houheffna and FirstTimer have said about Grant Hill's clear advantages over Pippen.

I love Pippen and guarding Jordan everyday made him into a GREAT, great player. It's not a knock against Pippen, but he certainly had some positive basketball influences. So did a lot of players, including Jordan himself with Dean Smith.

 

[97Bulls]

That statement doesn't take away from anything I, or Houheffna and FirstTimer have said about Grant Hill's clear advantages over Pippen.

I love Pippen and guarding Jordan everyday made him into a GREAT, great player. It's not a knock against Pippen, but he certainly had some positive basketball influences. So did a lot of players, including Jordan himself with Dean Smith.

And all I've said is they're not "clear" advantages. Statistically, I've shown you they are dead even. Obviously, hill has had a higher scoring season of the 2. But like I said, if jordan didn't come back in 95, I see pippen improving his avgs. But your obviously unreasonable. To prove my point, let me ask you this. Is scottie pippen a better winner than hill?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And all I've said is they're not "clear" advantages. Statistically, I've shown you they are dead even. Obviously, hill has had a higher scoring season of the 2. But like I said, if jordan didn't come back in 95, I see pippen improving his avgs. But your obviously unreasonable. To prove my point, let me ask you this. Is scottie pippen a better winner than hill?

Subjective question.

 

[97Bulls]

Subjective question.

Subject to what? Please answer the question.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Subject to what? Please answer the question.

Grant Hill was the winner of NCAA championship and led his team as a 1st scoring option and the best player on his team. Pippen was the best player on his team for a grand total of 1 season and was still not as good of a leader or player that Hill was. I never saw Grant Hill refuse to come back in a game because a game-winning shot attempt was drawn up for somebody else - Pippen did.

Pippen won 6 NBA championships as a #2 man but he was never on his way to being one of the best, if not the best, player in the NBA. Grant Hill was.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And statistically, they were not dead even. Grant Hill was a player who could average (at best) over 25 points, 10 rebounds, and over 7 assists. Pippen was a player who could average 22 points, 9 rebounds, and over 7 assists.

Hill WAS a much better offensive player and a better rebounder, whether you are willing to admit it to yourself or not. And defensively, Pippen was better. But these were both top 5 SFs in terms of defense. That was not the tipping point between those two players.

 

[97Bulls]

Grant Hill was the winner of NCAA championship and led his team as a 1st scoring option and the best player on his team. Pippen was the best player on his team for a grand total of 1 season and was still not as good of a leader or player that Hill was. I never saw Grant Hill refuse to come back in a game because a game-winning shot attempt was drawn up for somebody else - Pippen did.

Pippen won 6 NBA championships as a #2 man but he was never on his way to being one of the best, if not the best, player in the NBA. Grant Hill was.

Lol, its frustrating trying to have a conversation with a person that refuses to use logic. So in esscense, hills ncaa championship trumps pippens 6 championships cuz pippen wasn't the best player on his team? As if pippen was m.l. carr waving towels and patting the players on the back during timeouts. And played a minimal role in 6 championships.

Pippen wasn't on his way to being one of the best players in the league? But he was voted by gms in 95 as the player theyed pick to build a team around. And I suppose it doesn't matter that pippen had higher finishes in the mvp voting than hill too. You obviously don't know what your talking about rami

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lol, its frustrating trying to have a conversation with a person that refuses to use logic. So in esscense, hills ncaa championship trumps pippens 6 championships cuz pippen wasn't the best player on his team? As if pippen was m.l. carr waving towels and patting the players on the back during timeouts. And played a minimal role in 6 championships.

Pippen wasn't on his way to being one of the best players in the league? But he was voted by gms in 95 as the player theyed pick to build a team around. And I suppose it doesn't matter that pippen had higher finishes in the mvp voting than hill too. You obviously don't know what your talking about rami

You are talking about "logic" yet use MVP voting as a basis for comparison?

Peja Stojakovic once came in 2nd. P.J. Brown once came in 4th or 5th. Rose and Nash have won it over the likes over James and Bryant.

I suppose by your logic, Rodman and Robert Horry were better players than Grant Hill as well.

Talk to me again when you are willing to admit Hill's offensive superiority over Pippen.

 

[97Bulls]

And statistically, they were not dead even. Grant Hill was a player who could average (at best) over 25 points, 10 rebounds, and over 7 assists. Pippen was a player who could average 22 points, 9 rebounds, and over 7 assists.

Hill WAS a much better offensive player and a better rebounder, whether you are willing to admit it to yourself or not. And defensively, Pippen was better. But these were both top 5 SFs in terms of defense. That was not the tipping point between those two players.

Pippen is a top defender all-time. Not just of the 90s. Hill has no all defense teams not even a second team. I've never even seen an all time defense list that includes hill. He'd probably be ranked 156th. You must be related to grant hill.

 

[FirstTimer]

You must be related to Pippen.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Pippen is a top defender all-time. Not just of the 90s. Hill has no all defense teams not even a second team. I've never even seen an all time defense list that includes hill. He'd probably be ranked 156th. You must be related to grant hill.

And you must be a homer Bulls' fan to not even admit something as simple as Hill was a better offensive player than Pippen.

 

[97Bulls]

You are talking about "logic" yet use MVP voting as a basis for comparison?

Peja Stojakovic once came in 2nd. P.J. Brown once came in 4th or 5th. Rose and Nash have won it over the likes over James and Bryant.

I suppose by your logic, Rodman and Robert Horry were better players than Grant Hill as well.

Talk to me again when you are willing to admit Hill's offensive superiority over Pippen.

Lol peja never came in 2nd in mvp voting. Pj brown? Come on.

 

[FirstTimer]

Lol peja never came in 2nd in mvp voting. Pj brown? Come on.

He came in 4th one season.

PJ Browns best season he finished 14th.

No idea where Rami pulled that stuff from.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

My memory obviously failed me in regard to where Stojakovic and P.J. finished in MVP voting, but I guarantee you that P.J. Brown was never the 14th best player in the NBA.

MVP voting doesn't equate to how good a player is.