Starlin Castro's Error Tracker (2013 Edition!)

[Jntg4]

Cal talked about his prep. As well as his view on his limited range. He out worked everyone. Range factor is overrated, especially by the youth at CCS.

 

[Rice Cube]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but Cubs Den had a good article about the perception of Starlin Castro:

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/...n-with-starlin-castro-misses-the-big-picture/

I think there's hope that he can be a solid offensive and defensive player. Baseball's hard, though.

 

[X]

#4 on a fielding mishap today. 4 errors in less than 3 weeks.

Roughly 25 weeks in a season. x1.3 = on pace for 33 errors this season.

 

[KBisBack!]

#4 on a fielding mishap today. 4 errors in less than 3 weeks.

Roughly 25 weeks in a season. x1.3 = on pace for 33 errors this season.

Which would be a career high and likely lead the league for a fourth straight season.

Hopefully we can stop talking about how he is improving and what a great defensive SS he can be.

He is brutal defensively. He is making Shawon Dunston look like Ozzie Smith.

 

[SilenceS]

Which would be a career high and likely lead the league for a fourth straight season.

Hopefully we can stop talking about how he is improving and what a great defensive SS he can be.

He is brutal defensively. He is making Shawon Dunston look like Ozzie Smith.

He has improved. His foot work and his positioning to throw is much better then it use to be. Castro's problem is between the ears. He has to think more about situations and who is on the base paths and who is at the plate. The talent is there. He just has to start getting that baseball IQ working at all times. Its early in the season and they have played in some rough conditions. He is still on this pace by all star break then maybe a gripe.

Also, you know what aggravates me sometimes. People always talk about his errors, but when he makes a terrific play. People act like it never happened two seconds later. He is our best player and its not even close right now. You know how many major league teams would want a 23 year old shortstop with 2 all star appearances already. Castro's best days are still ahead.

 

[KBisBack!]

He has improved. His foot work and his positioning to throw is much better then it use to be. Castro's problem is between the ears. He has to think more about situations and who is on the base paths and who is at the plate. The talent is there. He just has to start getting that baseball IQ working at all times. Its early in the season and they have played in some rough conditions. He is still on this pace by all star break then maybe a gripe.

He clearly has not improved. You have been saying for years now he is improving and for years he still leads the majors in errors for shortstops.

You would have a point about not griping if this was something unusual or different and not the norm.

He has led the majors in errors by shortstops for the last three years so this is just a continuation of a very well established pattern. Not a fluke.

He isn't the only shortstop who has had to play in difficult early season conditions.

There are plenty of shortstops who make the great plays that Castro does without all the errors. He isn't the only shortstop making great plays and he doesn't make plays that no other shortstop can make.

Also, you know what aggravates me sometimes. People always talk about his errors, but when he makes a terrific play. People act like it never happened two seconds later. He is our best player and its not even close right now. You know how many major league teams would want a 23 year old shortstop with 2 all star appearances already. Castro's best days are still ahead.[/QUOTE]

True he is the teams best player by far, but that just goes to show you how poor the team really is. On a contending team he should not be the team's best player.

Part of the reason he is a two time All Star has to do with playing on such a poor team and that the team has to send SOMEBODY.

There are some teams that would be happy to have him and some teams that already have a better option in place.

I know you like him, but you refuse to acknowledge he has any flaws at all. He is a brutal defensive shortstop, period. His defensive metrics have been well below average his entire career. This is the start of his FOURTH season in the big leagues. He has had plenty of time to improve at least to the point where he isn't leading the majors in errors every season.

 

[Jntg4]

He clearly has not improved. You have been saying for years now he is improving and for years he still leads the majors in errors for shortstops.

You would have a point about not griping if this was something unusual or different and not the norm.

He has led the majors in errors by shortstops for the last three years so this is just a continuation of a very well established pattern. Not a fluke.

He isn't the only shortstop who has had to play in difficult early season conditions.

There are plenty of shortstops who make the great plays that Castro does without all the errors. He isn't the only shortstop making great plays and he doesn't make plays that no other shortstop can make.

Also, you know what aggravates me sometimes. People always talk about his errors, but when he makes a terrific play. People act like it never happened two seconds later. He is our best player and its not even close right now. You know how many major league teams would want a 23 year old shortstop with 2 all star appearances already. Castro's best days are still ahead.

True he is the teams best player by far, but that just goes to show you how poor the team really is. On a contending team he should not be the team's best player.

Part of the reason he is a two time All Star has to do with playing on such a poor team and that the team has to send SOMEBODY.

There are some teams that would be happy to have him and some teams that already have a better option in place.

I know you like him, but you refuse to acknowledge he has any flaws at all. He is a brutal defensive shortstop, period. His defensive metrics have been well below average his entire career. This is the start of his FOURTH season in the big leagues. He has had plenty of time to improve at least to the point where he isn't leading the majors in errors every season.

LaHair and Castro made it last year, if it was only because each team was required to have a representative, only one would have gone.

And errors are such a basic and overbloated stat. Range means more than errors.

 

[chibears55]

starlin castro is by far one of the top SS in baseball today..

he already has 551 hits in just 461 games,, a .297 AVG .. and he just turned 23

among all shortstops over the last 3 yrs average,,

2nd in total hits 176
8th in runs 74
2nd in doubles 32
2nd in triples 8
17 in HR 9
8th in RBI 62
11 in SB 19
3rd in AVG .296
9th in OBP .335
5th in SLG .425

as you see offensively he no slouch compared to all other SS in baseball today, and he is on his way to being a 20 HR as he has improved there the last 2 yrs as he matures and he gets stronger.

Defensively, yes he has alot to work on there.. has he improved ? its too early to tell.
can he improve ? sure, you can see a good portion of his errors are mental from rushing throws , picking his head up to soon, or like the other day when he rushed on a GB hit by the pitcher.. those things can be corrected by him as he matures..

the kid not average or just a top player on a bad team, he already is a top SS offensively and could only get better as he matures more at the plate with experience and gets stronger. defensively will be a question mark..
i personally think he should be moved to CF, he has shown he can cover alot of ground going after pop ups and he does posses a strong arm

 

[KBisBack!]

LaHair and Castro made it last year, if it was only because each team was required to have a representative, only one would have gone.

Which part of the phrase "part of the reason....." did you not understand??

I didn't say it was the ONLY reason like you translated it into.

Partial reasons Castro made it last year were because Tulo and Desmond were injured. Desmond was selected but could not play because of injury.

2011 he was the only Cub on the roster and the third SS on the team behind Tulo and Reyes.

And errors are such a basic and overbloated stat. Range means more than errors.

Range doesn't mean everything and range doesn't help if you get to the ball and then throw it away. It actually hurts in that scenario because the opposing team is getting extra bases by the error they would not have gotten if the player had never even gotten to the ball.

All of Castro's defensive metrics (which take range into account) have him WELL below average defensively.

 

[KBisBack!]

starlin castro is by far one of the top SS in baseball today..

What is your definition of top SS??

Top 10?? Sure.

Not even close to top 5.

And if your definition of a top position player is simply being in the top third, then your standards are much lower.

among all shortstops over the last 3 yrs average,,

2nd in total hits 176
8th in runs 74
2nd in doubles 32
2nd in triples 8
17 in HR 9
8th in RBI 62
11 in SB 19
3rd in AVG .296
9th in OBP .335
5th in SLG .425

Some of those rankings are inflated due to injuries to other players like Tulo, Rollins, Hanley and Reyes.

Castro isn't better than any of those players right now. He COULD be in the future, but I am more concerned with the present than what if's.

as you see offensively he no slouch compared to all other SS in baseball today, and he is on his way to being a 20 HR as he has improved there the last 2 yrs as he matures and he gets stronger.

Never said he was a slouch offensively. I've strictly talked about his massive shortcomings on defense. Nice strawman there bearz99.

And he isn't close to being a 20 HR player. He has one season over 10 and that was only 14. LONG ways to go to get to 20.

Defensively, yes he has alot to work on there.. has he improved ? its too early to tell.

His FOURTH major league season is too early too tell??? No agenda at play here at all.

How long should we wait before deciding?? 10 years of leading the league in errors??

can he improve ? sure, you can see a good portion of his errors are mental from rushing throws , picking his head up to soon, or like the other day when he rushed on a GB hit by the pitcher.. those things can be corrected by him as he matures..

Exactly what signs of maturing has he shown??

It isn't like it is his second year or anything, this is the start of his FOURTH year and has shown zero signs of not being a lazy and a head case.

 

[SilenceS]

He clearly has not improved. You have been saying for years now he is improving and for years he still leads the majors in errors for shortstops.

You would have a point about not griping if this was something unusual or different and not the norm.

He has led the majors in errors by shortstops for the last three years so this is just a continuation of a very well established pattern. Not a fluke.

He isn't the only shortstop who has had to play in difficult early season conditions.

There are plenty of shortstops who make the great plays that Castro does without all the errors. He isn't the only shortstop making great plays and he doesn't make plays that no other shortstop can make.

Also, you know what aggravates me sometimes. People always talk about his errors, but when he makes a terrific play. People act like it never happened two seconds later. He is our best player and its not even close right now. You know how many major league teams would want a 23 year old shortstop with 2 all star appearances already. Castro's best days are still ahead.

True he is the teams best player by far, but that just goes to show you how poor the team really is. On a contending team he should not be the team's best player.

Part of the reason he is a two time All Star has to do with playing on such a poor team and that the team has to send SOMEBODY.

There are some teams that would be happy to have him and some teams that already have a better option in place.

I know you like him, but you refuse to acknowledge he has any flaws at all. He is a brutal defensive shortstop, period. His defensive metrics have been well below average his entire career. This is the start of his FOURTH season in the big leagues. He has had plenty of time to improve at least to the point where he isn't leading the majors in errors every season.[/QUOTE]

A couple of things,

1. I recognized that he doesnt have a very high baseball IQ and that is a pretty big fault, at least to me. I acknowledge Castro's faults. I just dont say he completely sucks at defense because he doesnt.

2.I do think the weather affected a couple of errors and I would give the same consideration to players around the league playing in the same type. Thats why I said lets see where he is at the all star break. Your boy in KC has 3 already as well. Im not jumping to the conclusion that he must suck.

3. Castro keeps progressing not regressing. I dont care if its his 4th major league season. He is still very young and he is still growing and learning. If he starts regressing, I will be the first to admit. I get he is below average because of errors. I am saying that he wont be his whole career. Also, Baez has the same problems as Castro at short. So, I dont understand the point because he is our SS for the foreseeable future.

 

[KBisBack!]

A couple of things,

1. I recognized that he doesnt have a very high baseball IQ and that is a pretty big fault, at least to me. I acknowledge Castro's faults. I just dont say he completely sucks at defense because he doesnt.

Silence, you are totally biased when it comes to Castro.

If leading the league in errors for three straight years doesn't suck, exactly what does it take to suck defensively??

By your measuring stick then, not one SS in all of baseball sucks defensively??

Because once again, on ALL defensive metrics he ranks far below average. All you have to support you is your opinion that he doesn't suck. I have the facts.

2.I do think the weather affected a couple of errors and I would give the same consideration to players around the league playing in the same type. Thats why I said lets see where he is at the all star break. Your boy in KC has 3 already as well. Im not jumping to the conclusion that he must suck.

My boy in KC hasn't led the majors in errors the past three years either.

I guess you chose to ignore my statement that is this was something unusual for Castro you would have a point and not just a continuation of a now 3+ season pattern.

3. Castro keeps progressing not regressing. I dont care if its his 4th major league season. He is still very young and he is still growing and learning. If he starts regressing, I will be the first to admit. I get he is below average because of errors. I am saying that he wont be his whole career. Also, Baez has the same problems as Castro at short. So, I dont understand the point because he is our SS for the foreseeable future.

You keep stating your OPINION that Castro is progressing.

I keep stating the FACTS that he is still the worst defensive SS in baseball.

I know he is the team's SS for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean the fact that he is well below average defensively should be ignored like some here wish to.

I know you THINK it won't be this way his whole career, but I will believe it when I see it.

 

[chibears55]

Never said he was a slouch offensively. I've strictly talked about his massive shortcomings on defense. Nice strawman there bearz99.

And he isn't close to being a 20 HR player. He has one season over 10 and that was only 14. LONG ways to go to get to 20

nothing i wrote was directed toward you, i was just stating my opinion to all..

and as far as being a 20 HR hitter, i said he was on his way to becoming one as he has improved over the last 2 years.. from 10 in 2011 to 14 in 2012 so, not really a LONG way to get to 20 as he upped it by 4 last year to 14 and basically just needs to up it by 6 this yr to get to 20.. but again i said he on his way to being a 20 HR hitter as he matures and gets stronger.. that doesnt necessarily mean this year, could be next year..

he is on his way to being a 20 HR as he has improved there the last 2 yrs as he matures and he gets stronger.

 

[KBisBack!]

and as far as being a 20 HR hitter, i said he was on his way to becoming one as he has improved over the last 2 years.. from 10 in 2011 to 14 in 2012 so, not really a LONG way to get to 20 as he upped it by 4 last year to 14 and basically just needs to up it by 6 this yr to get to 20..

bearz99,

To become a 20 HR hitter, he has to DOUBLE the amount of HR's he hit two years ago.

He needs to increase the amount of HR's he hit last year by 45-50%.

That is still a LONG WAYS from being a 20 HR hitter.

When your career high in HR's is 14, another 6 HR's is a long ways to go.

It is a far greater leap than trying to go from 25 to 31 HR's.

IF he improves another 4 HR's this year and finishes with around 18-19 HR's, then I will say you are right that he is on his way.

BUT if he ends up the season with another 14-15 HR's, then he still has a long ways to go to be a 20 HR hitter.

I've watched baseball far too long and seen far too many players fail to live up to expectations to automatically ASSUME every player will reach their full potential.

I will believe they reach their potential when they SHOW me they have.

Castro has ALL the signs of being a mega talented player who lacks the drive and desire to fully realize his potential.

 

[chibears55]

Some of those rankings are inflated due to injuries to other players like Tulo, Rollins, Hanley and Reyes.

Castro isn't better than any of those players right now. He COULD be in the future, but I am more concerned with the present than what if's.[/B

injuries ?? ok so if they werent already ahead of him in a category he would drop anywhere from 1-4 in such category.. he still doing pretty well for just his first 3 yrs..

he is better then rollins right now, and you can argue that he might be on par with reyes right now.. tulo and hanley are far above him yes..
but your comparing him to 4 of the best SS in baseball over the last 5 yrs, so yea he prob. not a future HOF as these guys prob. are in their careers as he just in his 4th yr.. so going by what he has done and is doing offensively to date has been pretty damn good, and we can only look ahead and say he might become a better power hitter as he matures and gains experience If not and he stays the same as he is now its still not bad being a .300 hitter with some speed and a 10+ HR hitter.


tulo is the best of them all IMO.. hanley out does castro with power, reyes is a much better base stealer and OBP guy, and rollins didnt become a stud until he was 27 his 6th yr when he started hitting 20+ HRs to go with stealing bases.. he has a career .270 AVG and .328 OBP .759 OPS but at this point in his career at age 34 i would say castro has passed him up.

 

[chibears55]

To become a 20 HR hitter, he has to DOUBLE the amount of HR's he hit two years ago.

He needs to increase the amount of HR's he hit last year by 45-50%.

That is still a LONG WAYS from being a 20 HR hitter.

When your career high in HR's is 14, another 6 HR's is a long ways to go.

KB.. im glad you know math, but again i did not say he was going to hit 20 HRs this year, i said he could become a 20 HR hitter as he matures and gets stronger.. he is obviously getting better as he has gone from 10 to 14.. so, obviously if he hits 10-15 this year then yes theres a chance he may not be a 20 HR hitter anytime soon.
i dont understand why you feel the need to keep arguing this..

Castro has ALL the signs of being a mega talented player who lacks the drive and desire to fully realize his potential.

i totally agree, thats why i keep saying IF he matures or as he matures.. hopefully it comes with age and experience


also,i dont know why your calling me bearz99 dont know who that is and dont care.. my first time on a message board, hope to just be able to write stuff on here and discuss cubs and baseball.

 

[KBisBack!]

but your comparing him to 4 of the best SS in baseball over the last 5 yrs,

But people are saying he is one of the best SS in baseball.

So if I shouldn't compare him to the best SS in baseball over the last 5 years, exactly who should I be comparing him too??

 

[KBisBack!]

KB.. im glad you know math, but again i did not say he was going to hit 20 HRs this year, i said he could become a 20 HR hitter as he matures and gets stronger.. he is obviously getting better as he has gone from 10 to 14.. so, obviously if he hits 10-15 this year then yes theres a chance he may not be a 20 HR hitter anytime soon. i dont understand why you feel the need to keep arguing this..

He is very far from obviously getting better. I never said you said he was going to hit 20 this year, no need to change the subject to prove you are right. I simply said he still has quite a bit to go before becoming a 20 HR hitter.

Castro has ALL the signs of being a mega talented player who lacks the drive and desire to fully realize his potential.

i totally agree, thats why i keep saying IF he matures or as he matures.. hopefully it comes with age and experience

Well if you truly were saying IF, than I totally missed it.

I took it that you were saying he was on his way to becoming a 20 HR hitter since you used the exact words "on his way to becoming a 20 HR hitter". There is quite a difference between IF and on his way.

also,i dont know why your calling me bearz99 dont know who that is and dont care.. my first time on a message board, hope to just be able to write stuff on here and discuss cubs and baseball.

Interesting.

Your first time on a message board, which so happens to be at the same time as a major migration from another message board, crazy.

Even crazier is that you have only posted a handful of times and already seem to know my nickname.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[KBisBack!]

And errors are such a basic and overbloated stat. Range means more than errors.

A perfect example of what I was explaining earlier.

In the first inning of the second Red Sox vs Royals game today, Alex Gordon is on second base with no outs, SS was shaded towards second and Escobar hit a ground ball into the hole between SS and third. The Red Sox SS showed great range and dove to his right into the hole to glove the ball and when he got up and threw to 1B he air mailed the bag and threw the ball into the stands allowing the run to score and the batter to go to second. A much worse outcome than simply letting the ball through to LF and having runners on 1st and 3rd.

Sure his range will make a handful of great plays over the course of a season, but his range will also lead to errors which more times than not are far more damaging than the great plays save. Which is why you can't simple discount errors because it fits your agenda and why Castro's defensive metrics have ranked him below average every season.

 

[mountsalami]

i dont know why your calling me bearz99 dont know who that is and dont care.. my first time on a message board, hope to just be able to write stuff on here and discuss cubs and baseball.

Writing style and intelligence level happen to be the clue you are giving us.

Forgive me if I'm wrong. I doubt it though.

You seem to have failed in introducing yourself as a new member, on the sticky thread for that purpose, on this website. Or if you are from CBS simply state who you were from there and introduce yourself on the Welcome CBS thread that I created.

It's just common courtesy.