Starlin Castro's Error Tracker (2013 Edition!)

[SilenceS]

Yes, its my opinion. I dont know who other opinion it would be. I follow numbers just like everyone else but I also use my eyes to see differences. I understand your position because of the errors. I just wont go that far yet.

 

[KBisBack!]

Yes, its my opinion. I dont know who other opinion it would be. I follow numbers just like everyone else but I also use my eyes to see differences. I understand your position because of the errors. I just wont go that far yet.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Just as I am entitled to provide the facts that show your opinion to be inaccurate.

 

[SilenceS]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Just as I am entitled to provide the facts that show your opinion to be inaccurate.

lol

 

[chibears55]

Interesting.

Your first time on a message board, which so happens to be at the same time as a major migration from another message board, crazy.

Even crazier is that you have only posted a handful of times and already seem to know my nickname.

Very interesting indeed.

your screen name is kbisback, so i used kb and ive seen others refer to use as kb on other posts.. i mean its pretty simple..

i guess ill just pass on having a simple discussion with you next time on a topic if it has to go through all this BS,,

by the way just curious as to why your even on a cubs message board when your a fan of the royals, is it to just argue with other posters on topics because it sure dont seem like your a fan of the team.

 

[chibears55]

Writing style and intelligence level happen to be the clue you are giving us.

Forgive me if I'm wrong. I doubt it though.

You seem to have failed in introducing yourself as a new member, on the sticky thread for that purpose, on this website. Or if you are from CBS simply state who you were from there and introduce yourself on the Welcome CBS thread that I created.

It's just common courtesy

my writing style,,lol what are you the FBI ?

your wrong and forgiven...

didnt know i was suppose to introduce myself on a message board, im chibears55 nice to meet you :shrug:

 

[mountsalami]

my writing style,,lol what are you the FBI ?

your wrong and forgiven...

didnt know i was suppose to introduce myself on a message board, im chibears55 nice to meet you :shrug:

Welcome.

:fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap:

 

[KBisBack!]

by the way just curious as to why your even on a cubs message board when your a fan of the royals, is it to just argue with other posters on topics because it sure dont seem like your a fan of the team.

Ahh yes, the kindergarten level, "you aren't a fan of the team, why are you commenting on them" spin.

First off, luckily for you I am indeed a Cubs fan. Saves you the further embarrassment of a non Cubs fan being more knowledgable about your team than you are.

Secondly, as I have stated before and as you must have clearly read since you have 'supposedly' seen others refer to me as KB, I figured it was obvious that I was a Cub fan since I was posting on a Cubs message board.

Sorry I gave you too much credit.

 

[dabynsky]

He clearly has not improved. You have been saying for years now he is improving and for years he still leads the majors in errors for shortstops.

I know you like him, but you refuse to acknowledge he has any flaws at all. He is a brutal defensive shortstop, period. His defensive metrics have been well below average his entire career. This is the start of his FOURTH season in the big leagues. He has had plenty of time to improve at least to the point where he isn't leading the majors in errors every season.

I find defensive metrics and statistics severely lacking and cannot wait until fieldf/x data is publicly available. I tned to rely on my eyes with defense more so than any other facet of the game, but that is subjective analysis. One thing that has clearly improved in Castro's game is his accuracy throwing accoding to my subjective analysis of him. The numbers back this observation up though with his throwing errors reaching a career low of 8 last year.

That said since your posts throughout this thread have relied on defensive metrics than I think it is only fair that we look at those numbers closely. Castro has improved in every defensive metric except RZR in 2012. His UZR, DRS, and Fielding % were all career highs in 2012. You can argue that the imrpovement is not enough, but the empirical evidence available to us shows clear improvement.

All of Castro's defensive metrics (which take range into account) have him WELL below average defensively.

Because once again, on ALL defensive metrics he ranks far below average. All you have to support you is your opinion that he doesn't suck. I have the facts.

Well the facts don't reflect those statements when looking at 2012. According to DRS Castro was a positive 3 which ranked 11th of 21 qualifying SS. Furthermore according to the tiers of the DRS stat that 3 would rank as average. Castro's range is also above average according to the metrics. His range runs (RngR) last year was 7.7 which was good for 6th. His overall UZR was 14th and 2, again ranks as average according to the tiers of UZR. So he doesn't rank far below average according to all metrics.

You keep stating your OPINION that Castro is progressing.

I keep stating the FACTS that he is still the worst defensive SS in baseball.

There is only one measure that he ranked as the worst defensive SS in baseball last year and that was errors and fielding percentage. His next worst ranking was 18th in RZR, but as mentioned earlier he was 14th in UZR and 11th in DRS. Again the metrics have a number of flaws, but looking at the data we have he isn't the worst defensive SS in baseball last year.

 

[SilenceS]

Nice post

 

[KBisBack!]

There is only one measure that he ranked as the worst defensive SS in baseball last year and that was errors and fielding percentage. His next worst ranking was 18th in RZR, but as mentioned earlier he was 14th in UZR and 11th in DRS. Again the metrics have a number of flaws, but looking at the data we have he isn't the worst defensive SS in baseball last year.

18th in RZR out of 21. 14th in UZR out of 21 and 11th in DRS out of 21. There were only 21 SS who qualified.

At best, with the admittedly flawed metrics, he is still far below average.

Baseball Reference lists his Total Zone Fielding as below average in every season he has played. He is NOT an asset defensively no matter how badly you try and spin it.

But since he did indeed rank worst in baseball in errors and fielding percentage, to say there is no factual basis to call him the worst defensive SS in the game is totally biased and homerish.

 

[dabynsky]

18th in RZR out of 21. 14th in UZR out of 21 and 11th in DRS out of 21. There were only 21 SS who qualified.

At best, with the admittedly flawed metrics, he is still far below average.

Baseball Reference lists his Total Zone Fielding as below average in every season he has played. He is NOT an asset defensively no matter how badly you try and spin it.

But since he did indeed rank worst in baseball in errors and fielding percentage, to say there is no factual basis to call him the worst defensive SS in the game is totally biased and homerish.

I am the one trying to spin it when I point out the issues in your facts? You said he was far below average in ALL defensive metrics. By any definition that statement is not true.

Your statment was that the FACT was that Starlin Castro is the worst defensive SS in baseball. I showed that only in one area of Starlin Castro's game was he the worst defensive SS last year, which was errors and fielding percentage (since fielding percentage is basically just a rate stat of errors it is pretty much double counting). Amongst the other major defensive stats he was anywhere from 18th and tied for 10th (but listed 11th). So clearly this isn't a fact, but a matter of intrepretation of the data. But go ahead and resorting to claiming things that I haven't said (that there is no factual basis to call him the worst defensive SS) and the basic namecalling that has been your hallmark to try to prove your "facts".

 

[mountsalami]

Dab ? Who's worse than Castro ?

 

[mountsalami]

I've checked the stats. I watch Castro play. He is lazy and unattentive at times. Almost seems disinterested in his demeanor on the field. His glove still by his side at times while the pitch is delivered.

Not so good.

 

[KBisBack!]

I am the one trying to spin it when I point out the issues in your facts? You said he was far below average in ALL defensive metrics. By any definition that statement is not true.

Your statment was that the FACT was that Starlin Castro is the worst defensive SS in baseball. I showed that only in one area of Starlin Castro's game was he the worst defensive SS last year, which was errors and fielding percentage (since fielding percentage is basically just a rate stat of errors it is pretty much double counting). Amongst the other major defensive stats he was anywhere from 18th and tied for 10th (but listed 11th). So clearly this isn't a fact, but a matter of intrepretation of the data. But go ahead and resorting to claiming things that I haven't said (that there is no factual basis to call him the worst defensive SS) and the basic namecalling that has been your hallmark to try to prove your "facts".

11th or worse out of 21 in the defensive metrics YOU provided is below average. That is no interpretation of data, it is simply mathematics.

Fine, if you wish to nitpick, he is one of the worst 3 defensive SS in baseball. Happy now??

And oh my god, I called you a homer?!?!?!?!. What a terrible personal attack I have leveled on you. I hope your psyche can withstand such a brutal assault.

Suck it up buttercup and put on your big boy pants.

 

[KBisBack!]

Your statment was that the FACT was that Starlin Castro is the worst defensive SS in baseball..

And using errors and fielding percentages, it is a FACT that Castro is the worst defensive SS in baseball.

Sorry I don't put much weight into the metrics that you yourself claim were severely lacking.

Or am I making up that statement also?

 

[dabynsky]

11th or worse out of 21 in the defensive metrics YOU provided is below average. That is no interpretation of data, it is simply mathematics.

Fine, if you wish to nitpick, he is one of the worst 3 defensive SS in baseball. Happy now??

And oh my god, I called you a homer?!?!?!?!. What a terrible personal attack I have leveled on you. I hope your psyche can withstand such a brutal assault.

Suck it up buttercup and put on your big boy pants.

Typical response I see. Again, going by UZR and DRS a number between 0 and 5 is suppose to represent an average defender regardless of his rank, and as you continue to want to ignore he was actually tied for 10th if you want to nitpick. So that would actually be above average. You continue to talk about everyone else's agenda, spin, etc. but the facts don't support your over the top statements that I questioned.

 

[dabynsky]

And using errors and fielding percentages, it is a FACT that Castro is the worst defensive SS in baseball.

Sorry I don't put much weight into the metrics that you yourself claim were severely lacking.

Or am I making up that statement also?

I would not have questioned that statement, but that isn't what you said. You said it was a fact that he was the worst defensive SS in baseball. It is your interpretation that he is based upon the evidence, but there is plenty of evidence to point to him not being the worst defensive SS as well.

 

[KBisBack!]

I would not have questioned that statement, but that isn't what you said. You said it was a fact that he was the worst defensive SS in baseball. It is your interpretation that he is based upon the evidence, but there is plenty of evidence to point to him not being the worst defensive SS as well.

It is a statement based on the FACTS of errors and fielding percentage.

You defense that he isn't the worst defensive SS in baseball is using metrics that you yourself call severely lacking.

So exactly why should I place any weight into a defense that uses information that you yourself claim is severely lacking??

That makes no sense at all.

 

[dabynsky]

It is a statement based on the FACTS of errors and fielding percentage.

You defense that he isn't the worst defensive SS in baseball is using metrics that you yourself call severely lacking.

So exactly why should I place any weight into a defense that uses information that you yourself claim is severely lacking??

That makes no sense at all.

Those defensive metrics would include errors and fielding percentage, which as mentioned before is really the same measurement. And the reason we are using the metrics is because that is what you have offered up as your facts.

 

[KBisBack!]

Those defensive metrics would include errors and fielding percentage, which as mentioned before is really the same measurement. And the reason we are using the metrics is because that is what you have offered up as your facts.

The defensive metrics that offered up as having him being well below average his entire career.

Which is exactly what they show.

Thanks. Now we can move on.