Tanaka Watch Thread (Cubs Edition)

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chibears55

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They had a very good decade in 2000's. Alot of teams wish they could make playoffs 3 out of 5 yrs. 2003, 2007, 2008... They also were in playoff race in September in 2004, 2009. Only had 90 loss 2 times and both times after they made playoffs. Cubs were a very good team in 2000's. Before the 2000's i agree they were not good. Fans got a great taste in 2000's what winning is like. Had over .500 record in 7 of 10 yrs. Alot of MLB teams wish they could have that. Ask KCR, MIL, PIT, SEA, etc if they take that every decade. I know i sure would over this shit Cubs going through now

my point was besides those couple of winning seasons, they didnt compete. . there were yrs between competing and being mediocre or bad..
this regime has been here now into their 3rd season and some has shown tremendous hatred. . why now and not over the years and if these 2-3 yrs disgust them that much, why choose this team to root for to begin with since their history has been terrible. .

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daddies3angels

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my point was besides those couple of winning seasons, they didnt compete. . there were yrs between competing and being mediocre or bad..
this regime has been here now into their 3rd season and some has shown tremendous hatred. . why now and not over the years and if these 2-3 yrs disgust them that much, why choose this team to root for to begin with since their history has been terrible. .

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1: Out of 9 yrs Cubs were in postseason 3 times and were in race 5 times. They were competitive.

2: Do you really choose what team you root for? Kind of grow up with it. I know my dad was a HUGE Cub fan so that what team was always on tv or radio. . Its basically in my blood to be a Cub fan. Its not like i was younger and studying what teams are the best and choose them. People who do just pick there favorite team cause they winning is more of bandwagon fan.
 

chibears55

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Because the last two years has been a dipshit front office who hasn't even tried to give a shit about being competitive.

oh ok.. that makes sense... :nope:


the other owners and GMs were a lot smarter and tried to be bad and gave a shit about not being competitive..

I can see now why the hatred.. :obama:
 

patg006

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oh ok.. that makes sense... :nope:


the other owners and GMs were a lot smarter and tried to be bad and gave a shit about not being competitive..

I can see now why the hatred.. :obama:

No no no. I'm wrong.

ITs all about the lottery tickets.

Fuck being competitive. That costs too much and impedes prospects. Every GM knows that.

Because Houston's GM wouldn't spend more money if his small market owner decided he could........nah. He just wants to lose to accumulate top draft picks. Even if he had big time money for a guy like Choo, he wouldn't spend it. That's just bad business.

The fact that the 2 most clueless posters on the cubs boards agree with you tells me all i need to know.

I cant wait to hear you explain how 110+ loses in 2014 is a good thing......

Where's Germ-manholed Contraception? The one guy the cubs COULD outbid the yankees for?
 
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I wonder if any Nationals fans complained to this extent during their spell of futility from about 2006-2009...

Oh, but I guess since we're Chicago we should have a greater since of entitlement to complain, as if that somehow makes us bigger men for it. :facepalm:
 

CSF77

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Cubs Notes: Samardzija, Tanaka, Santana, Jimenez
By Mark Polishuk [January 12, 2014 at 10:19am CST]
Here's the latest on the Cubs from CSN Chicago's Patrick Mooney...

Jeff Samardzija and the Cubs are still far apart on a contract extension, "though there’s mutual respect on both sides and hope they can eventually find common ground." Samardzija's name has surfaced in several trade rumors this offseason but Mooney reports that the Cubs now plan to keep the righty until closer to the July 31 trade deadline. This would theoretically improve the quality of trade offers, such as how the Cubs scored a nice package of prospects from the Rangers last summer in exchange for Matt Garza.
The Cubs are prepared to give Masahiro Tanaka a nine-figure contract, a source tells Mooney. The Cubs have long been considered a major suitor for the Japanese right-hander, with one MLB source telling Mooney's CSN colleague David Kaplan last month that the Cubs wouldn't be outbid for Tanaka's services. That said, Mooney hears from several baseball officials that the bidding will get "silly" and another team will offer Tanaka a longer-term and more expensive deal.
If they can't sign Tanaka, the Cubs aren't interested in pursuing Ervin Santana, Ubaldo Jimenez or Garza. The Cubs would have to surrender their second-round draft pick and corresponding draft pool money as compensation for signing either Santana or Jimenez.
Santana "is the kind of buy-high pitcher the Cubs are trying to avoid now," Mooney writes. The Cubs did explore trading for Santana last winter when the righty was coming off a tough season with the Angels, and Santana ended up reviving his career with a good 2013 campaign with the Royals.
 

CSF77

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What I'm seeing is with A-Roid being suspended it puts the Yank's at 151 mil pre arb cases: http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/yankees-payroll-tracker-on-road-to-189m/

That figure does not include arbitration-eligible players and other costs, including insurance as well as in-season player promotions.

lux cap is at 189 mil.

So I'm giving them 160 mil tied up ATM. This puts them 29 mil under cap and they need a 3B now. If they sign Young for a year at 9 mil they could still push a 20 mil first year offer towards Tanaka. The posting off still doesn't go towards the cap.

So IMO the Cubs have to be willing to go over 20 mil year 1 here or walk away from this.
 

CSF77

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I wonder if any Nationals fans complained to this extent during their spell of futility from about 2006-2009...

Oh, but I guess since we're Chicago we should have a greater since of entitlement to complain, as if that somehow makes us bigger men for it. :facepalm:


That is pretty stupid.

Nats got bad over the 2 best top picks. Then they spend to improve the quality of the major league roster.

Theo has not spend to fund a quality team and the picks have been in the slow cooker with the patience is a virtue mantra.

The big difference is the Nats have had a urgency to win and turned it over quickly. The Cubs have not and have been milking this rebuild for it's worth.
 
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That is pretty stupid.

Nats got bad over the 2 best top picks. Then they spend to improve the quality of the major league roster.

Theo has not spend to fund a quality team and the picks have been in the slow cooker with the patience is a virtue mantra.

The big difference is the Nats have had a urgency to win and turned it over quickly. The Cubs have not and have been milking this rebuild for it's worth.

Nats got bad over two picks? What does that even mean? When I had previously said they had a period of futility from 2006-2009, that was actually being generous. They really weren't too competitive until 2012. I'm of the firm belief that no team can take tanking seriously in baseball with so many levels within an organization (basketball is a different story, though). The first major draft pick in the Epstein/Hoyer era was Albert Almora, nowhere near the level of Strasburg/Harper. Their major pick in their second year was Kris Bryant, who hasn't even been in the organization for a full year yet.
 
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Because the last two years has been a dipshit front office who hasn't even tried to give a shit about being competitive. They have copped out behind 'this is the right way to build success,' 'every season is sacred,' and the goal every year is to win the world series. They have sucked for a long time, what's different about now is that everybody thinks prospects are a new, secret weapon to having a winning team.

If it were any other GM, if it was any other guy, you would be calling for his head. If Jim Hendry was doing this right now, you'd be the ones calling his head.

This franchise is being run by two incompetent frauds. But one has 2 world series rings in Boston.......because they were his teams.

That's your problem right there. We don't care about Jim Hendry as much as you think we do. Most of us are firmly aware that he's two and a half years into our past now. And most of us also are firmly aware that our current GM could also be fired two or three years down the road, though it's not really a topic of discussion at the moment because we're not as obsessed with Theo's presence as you are.
 

CSF77

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The point is the Nats spent to bring in talent. And they traded to bring in talent. They got lucky to have the top picks on the right years.

The Cubs have lost talent every year at the major league level and have flipped it for the future. They have lowered payroll every year.

It is not even close to the same thing.

When Theo starts to add legit talent via trade of said future pieces or adds a legit F/A (EJaxx hardly counts) and Sweeney is not what I would call a big time deal.

Then you can start comparing.
 

TL1961

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Considering all of the false starts and speculative reports we experienced as the Rakuten Golden Eagles contemplated posting Masahiro Tanaka last month, we should probably take the following report with a grain of salt. With that said, we at least have to acknowledge whatSports Hochi out of Tokyo published in its Sunday newspaper.According to Dylan Hernandez of the Los Angeles Times, who translated the report on Twitter, Masahiro Tanaka has narrowed his list to three potential suitors:*New York Yankees,Los Angeles Dodgers*and*Los Angeles Angels.Hernandez says the report adds the Yankees are considered the favorites to sign Tanaka, which wouldn’t be a surprise, but he also cautions what we’re learning should be taken with a grain of salt.Fair enough.What we do know with certainty isTanaka traveled back to his native country on Saturday*after meeting with major league clubs this past week in Los Angeles. The*Chicago White Sox*are the only team to acknowledge their meeting with Tanaka, but it's reported he met with as many as 12 teams while in the U.S., including the Yankees, Dodgers and Angels.Tanaka did not speak to reporters upon his return to Narita airport in Tokyo. It's just a single report out of Tokyo that may or may not provide a clue into Tanaka's next move.If the report is true, we may be moving toward a Tanaka decision a little earlier than we anticipated. If not true, hey, we can’t complain too much, can we? We love a good mystery every now and then.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...masahiro-tanaka-according-083439346--mlb.html

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He narrowed his list to three, then met with other teams?
 

CSF77

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While not technically a free agent, Masahiro Tanaka can still be signed by any club that is also willing to pay his $20MM posting fee. Reports out of Japan indicate that the Yankees and Dodgers are the favorites to land the 25-year-old righty, tweets David Waldstein of the New York Times, with Tanaka's wife reportedly interested in landing on the West Coast. The Angels are also said to be among the top suitors for Tanaka's services, says MLB.com's Alden Gonzalez (referencing a recent report from Japanese outlet Sports Hochi).
 

CSF77

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I think it is time for the Cubs to move on from this. Chicago is not really a prime landing spot and it seems his wife wants LA.

They have to upgrade from Rusin.

Right-handed starter Scott Baker has several minor league offers in hand but is holding out for a guaranteed MLB deal, tweets Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN. The Twins have not been interested in a reunion thus far, Wolfson adds.

Seems no one trusts Baker to risk a MLB deal.

Y would go with Arroyo.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/free-agent-profile-bronson-arroyo.html

from article:

Expected Contract

Arroyo made it clear earlier this month he considers this his final shot at a multiyear deal. I think there is a chance of a two-year offer, along the lines of Ryan Dempster's $26.5MM contract. In the end I predict a two-year, $24MM contract for Arroyo.

I feel that is good value 12 mil per

Strengths/Pros

When you hear a pitcher praised for "taking the ball every fifth day," that doesn't mean that he literally never misses a turn in the rotation. But that truly can be said for the rubber-armed Arroyo, as explained above. Not only does Arroyo make all of his starts, but he's good for six-plus innings each time out. He projects for about 205 innings this year, right around his recent annual average. Arroyo will likely be joined by only Ervin Santana, Ricky Nolasco, and Hiroki Kuroda as 200-inning free agent pitchers.

Arroyo doesn't just take the ball; he adds positive value. He'll likely finish with a sub-4.00 ERA in four of his last five seasons, and it's down to 3.56 at the moment. We recently extolled the virtues of Nolasco's walk rates, but Arroyo's is even better. In fact, only Cliff Lee and Haren have walked fewer batters per nine innings since 2011.

We'll reference Arroyo's age as a negative in free agency, but the fact that he'll pitch at 37 next year is the reason he can expect a two-year deal at best. Signing Arroyo lacks upside, but one or two years for him seems safer than four for Matt Garza. As for a qualifying offer? I doubt Arroyo gets one, as the perenially budget-conscious Reds won't want to risk paying him $14MM next year, even if he says he wants a multiyear deal.

Arroyo is also solid defensively, having picked up a Gold Glove award in 2010.

Weaknesses/Cons

It's always scary to give decent money to a guy with an 87 mile per hour fastball, with the concern that he'll lose another tick of velocity and start throwing batting practice. He's got one of the lowest swinging-strike rates in the free agent class. Arroyo is a low-strikeout, pitch-to-contact hurler, and he's had multiple years where he's allowed around ten hits per nine innings. When that happens, it results in a lot of baserunners even with a low walk rate. On top of that, Arroyo is mostly a flyball pitcher, so he's relatively prone to the longball.

Arroyo also lacks upside; it's easier to picture Garza, Tim Lincecum, Masahiro Tanaka, or even Scott Kazmir and Phil Hughes ascending (or returning) to the heights of a front of the rotation Major League starter.

Arroyo has a history of avoiding injury, but how many 37-year-olds have reached 200 innings in recent years? If we include Kuroda for 2013, it has happened only four times in the last five seasons: two seasons from Kuroda, and two from R.A. Dickey.
 

Boobaby1

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I think it is time for the Cubs to move on from this. Chicago is not really a prime landing spot and it seems his wife wants LA.

They have to upgrade from Rusin.

Right-handed starter Scott Baker has several minor league offers in hand but is holding out for a guaranteed MLB deal, tweets Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN. The Twins have not been interested in a reunion thus far, Wolfson adds.

Seems no one trusts Baker to risk a MLB deal.

Y would go with Arroyo.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/free-agent-profile-bronson-arroyo.html

from article:

Expected Contract

Arroyo made it clear earlier this month he considers this his final shot at a multiyear deal. I think there is a chance of a two-year offer, along the lines of Ryan Dempster's $26.5MM contract. In the end I predict a two-year, $24MM contract for Arroyo.

I feel that is good value 12 mil per

Strengths/Pros

When you hear a pitcher praised for "taking the ball every fifth day," that doesn't mean that he literally never misses a turn in the rotation. But that truly can be said for the rubber-armed Arroyo, as explained above. Not only does Arroyo make all of his starts, but he's good for six-plus innings each time out. He projects for about 205 innings this year, right around his recent annual average. Arroyo will likely be joined by only Ervin Santana, Ricky Nolasco, and Hiroki Kuroda as 200-inning free agent pitchers.

Arroyo doesn't just take the ball; he adds positive value. He'll likely finish with a sub-4.00 ERA in four of his last five seasons, and it's down to 3.56 at the moment. We recently extolled the virtues of Nolasco's walk rates, but Arroyo's is even better. In fact, only Cliff Lee and Haren have walked fewer batters per nine innings since 2011.

We'll reference Arroyo's age as a negative in free agency, but the fact that he'll pitch at 37 next year is the reason he can expect a two-year deal at best. Signing Arroyo lacks upside, but one or two years for him seems safer than four for Matt Garza. As for a qualifying offer? I doubt Arroyo gets one, as the perenially budget-conscious Reds won't want to risk paying him $14MM next year, even if he says he wants a multiyear deal.

Arroyo is also solid defensively, having picked up a Gold Glove award in 2010.

Weaknesses/Cons

It's always scary to give decent money to a guy with an 87 mile per hour fastball, with the concern that he'll lose another tick of velocity and start throwing batting practice. He's got one of the lowest swinging-strike rates in the free agent class. Arroyo is a low-strikeout, pitch-to-contact hurler, and he's had multiple years where he's allowed around ten hits per nine innings. When that happens, it results in a lot of baserunners even with a low walk rate. On top of that, Arroyo is mostly a flyball pitcher, so he's relatively prone to the longball.

Arroyo also lacks upside; it's easier to picture Garza, Tim Lincecum, Masahiro Tanaka, or even Scott Kazmir and Phil Hughes ascending (or returning) to the heights of a front of the rotation Major League starter.

Arroyo has a history of avoiding injury, but how many 37-year-olds have reached 200 innings in recent years? If we include Kuroda for 2013, it has happened only four times in the last five seasons: two seasons from Kuroda, and two from R.A. Dickey.

What's the point of bringing in anyone like Arroyo now? I mean, to honestly try and upgrade the rotation when they have left Barney and Valbuena in the line-up? Sure, don't upgrade whenever possible.

Beating the dead horse, the Cubs line-up would have had at least a power hitter behind Rizzo had they not dealt him to the Yankees, so I see no reason in bringing in anyone if you trade away your most productive hitter in the last two years and pay his salary to boot.

Corey Blacks in A ball are a dime a dozen.

30 plus HR's and 90-100 RBI's at the parent level aren't.

But hey! As long as his replacement has an above .300 OBP, it should make a few around here happy.

CHAMPS!
 

beckdawg

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What's the point of bringing in anyone like Arroyo now? I mean, to honestly try and upgrade the rotation when they have left Barney and Valbuena in the line-up? Sure, don't upgrade whenever possible.

Beating the dead horse, the Cubs line-up would have had at least a power hitter behind Rizzo had they not dealt him to the Yankees, so I see no reason in bringing in anyone if you trade away your most productive hitter in the last two years and pay his salary to boot.

Corey Blacks in A ball are a dime a dozen.

30 plus HR's and 90-100 RBI's at the parent level aren't.

But hey! As long as his replacement has an above .300 OBP, it should make a few around here happy.

CHAMPS!

Soriano helped them win so many games the past 3 years... Frankly, I'd rather they give a younger player the shot to develop rather than play a 38 year old who barely got above .300 OBP. Soriano does exactly what next year for the cubs? Maybe they win 1-2 more games? You're acting like he's the difference between a 90 loss team and a playoff team. Maybe Lake/Sweeney/Vitters/whomever never amount to something. But what if they do? A guy under 30 factors in to 2014-2017 most likely if they are decent. Soriano likely will struggle to find teams wanting him after this year. I'm not even sure you can make the guarantee that Soriano will even be better than whomever they replace him with next year.

It's not about the money. It's not about the Corey Black's of the world. Though, both are incentives. It's about finding a long term replacement. A year and a half of Soriano does nothing to help you find the long term replacement. It doesn't even buy you much time to work up a prospect. They would have got 1 season out of the deal. As I said maybe his replacement never amounts to anything but at least you know. Maybe Vitters finally has the year everyone expected when he was drafted. Maybe Lake's half season wasn't a fluke. Soriano playing blocks your opportunity to find out.
 

Boobaby1

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Soriano helped them win so many games the past 3 years... Frankly, I'd rather they give a younger player the shot to develop rather than play a 38 year old who barely got above .300 OBP. Soriano does exactly what next year for the cubs? Maybe they win 1-2 more games? You're acting like he's the difference between a 90 loss team and a playoff team. Maybe Lake/Sweeney/Vitters/whomever never amount to something. But what if they do? A guy under 30 factors in to 2014-2017 most likely if they are decent. Soriano likely will struggle to find teams wanting him after this year. I'm not even sure you can make the guarantee that Soriano will even be better than whomever they replace him with next year.

It's not about the money. It's not about the Corey Black's of the world. Though, both are incentives. It's about finding a long term replacement. A year and a half of Soriano does nothing to help you find the long term replacement. It doesn't even buy you much time to work up a prospect. They would have got 1 season out of the deal. As I said maybe his replacement never amounts to anything but at least you know. Maybe Vitters finally has the year everyone expected when he was drafted. Maybe Lake's half season wasn't a fluke. Soriano playing blocks your opportunity to find out.

Can we please get over Vitters, B-Jax, and the rest of the AAA rejects that won't amount to squat with any team let alone the Cubs. Soriano may not amount to many more wins, but if he is the best offensive player the Cubs have had, what does that say about the rest of this trash heap?

And what does Valbuena, Barney, Murphy, and Lake do for the Cubs? You act as if these buffoons are going to be part of the Cubs in 2 to 3 years. Really?

They are no different than Soriano as far as wins, and are not a part of the future either and hardly role models. They are AAAA players at best and not worthy as position players on any team. Even the Cubs.

Soriano will get SOME consideration for the HOF. I'd rather hold onto him for his final year because at least the Cubs get something for their "precious money" as far as offense and a role model. And, he blocks NOBODY worthy of being an every day ball player.
 

beckdawg

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Can we please get over Vitters, B-Jax, and the rest of the AAA rejects that won't amount to squat with any team let alone the Cubs. Soriano may not amount to many more wins, but if he is the best offensive player the Cubs have had, what does that say about the rest of this trash heap?

And what does Valbuena, Barney, Murphy, and Lake do for the Cubs? You act as if these buffoons are going to be part of the Cubs in 2 to 3 years. Really?

They are no different than Soriano as far as wins, and are not a part of the future either and hardly role models. They are AAAA players at best and not worthy as position players on any team. Even the Cubs.

Soriano will get SOME consideration for the HOF. I'd rather hold onto him for his final year because at least the Cubs get something for their "precious money" as far as offense and a role model. And, he blocks NOBODY worthy of being an every day ball player.

That's an assumption you're making about the 4A types. Look I'm not guaranteeing anything here. I'm simply saying there is a chance. Vitters for example would be far from the first touted prospect to struggle at an early age and later turn it into a decent career. I'm not even suggesting his peak is a star. But why couldn't Vitters end up at say a Michael Cuddyer level? And quite frankly, if a 24 year old Vitters ends up at that sort of level he's leaps and bounds more valuable than Soriano is at this point. The fact is if they ever want to make the playoffs they need to find a future left fielder because it's not going to be Soriano. So why not start looking now?

Black, money and the opportunity for some other player to get time might not hold a ton of value either but you don't know until players get a chance to see the field. Last year around this same time I'm sure you would have called Schierholtz 4A garbage. I'm not propping him up as a star. He's a decent role player if he's on a playoff caliber team. But at least he is someone who could figure into your 3-5 year timeline. Soriano simply doesn't. It's probably fairly unlikely any of the guys who play LF this year will be long term starters. But even if they aren't, maybe you find someone who can be a key utility guy. If Vitters proves he can hit MLB pitching well enough to stay in the majors he very easily could be a decent back up since he can play corner OF and corner infield. That's not sexy but winning teams need those types of players. If Lake does the same he can play likely all OF spots as well as possibly being able to fill in at MI positions.

Soriano isn't going to make you more happy. Were you thrilled to see the cubs from April through June because I seriously doubt anyone here would say that they were. What will make you happy is a winning team and winning teams need long term solutions not 1 year fixes.
 

dabynsky

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Well one of the supposed "finalists" for Tanaka didn't even meet face to face with Tanaka while he was in LA apparently. So I am guessing google translate strikes again for the reports of finalists at this point:
Though reports from Japan have tabbed the Angels as one of the favorites to land Masahiro Tanaka, GM Jerry Dipoto confirmed today that his club was not among the teams that met with the Japanese sensation last week in Los Angeles, reports Mike DiGiovanna of the Los Angeles Times. "We did not meet with Tanaka," said Dipoto. "We were not scheduled to meet with him." The GM otherwise declined to comment, but DiGiovanna offers on Twitter that the lack of a face-to-face could indicate that the Halos "won't break [the] bank" for Tanaka.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/al-notes-jenks-tanaka-angels-yankees-wieters.html
 

CSF77

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Boo at this point I'm seeing them push Baez through Iowa fast.

If he bangs out 10 homers in Apr bet he will be promoted.

Seriously I'm not too concerned at this point.

Seeing how Olt should be ready in S/T I can see him hitting #4 until Baez promotes.

Over all the year is going to suck.
They would be better served getting a dependable 200 IP arm. He is not going to bust any banks.
 
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