Teams that have a worse QB Situation

ursamajor

D.J. Moore is phat
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
8,176
Liked Posts:
3,993
Location:
HHM’s Head
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
So cutler would be considered a lower tiered franchise QB
Ok. But a team without a Franchise QB, would be the Bears prior to Cutler, with a graphic every game against Green Bay, of the dozens of starting QBs they marched out, over Favre's Tenure. The Burris' the Hutchensons, the Grieses etc etc.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

bamainatlanta

You wake him up, you keep him up
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Aug 10, 2013
Posts:
41,033
Liked Posts:
38,385
Location:
Cumming
Oh they will make the playoffs no doubt but the one challenger they had so far dropped 28 on them with a shit QB. We will see how far they go

The Falcons are this year's NFL lottery luck winner. Win against Philly because of a missed FG & bad coaching decisions. They beat an average Giants team, beat the Cowboys minus Romo/Bryant, and blew out the Texans. Wow, so impressive. If they had our schedule, they would be 1-3. They aren't so much of a good team as they are lucky breaks team.
 

ursamajor

D.J. Moore is phat
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
8,176
Liked Posts:
3,993
Location:
HHM’s Head
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Even by your (absurd) standard, Jay Cutler is one of the least accomplished "franchise" QB's in recent memory and maybe in NFL history.
That and 5 bucks will buy you a cup of Coffee.

Archie Manning was a Franchise QB, and not very accomplished.

Your argument is invalid.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
Ok. But a team without a Franchise QB, would be the Bears prior to Cutler, with a graphic every game against Green Bay, of the dozens of starting QBs they marched out, over Favre's Tenure. The Burris' the Hutchensons, the Grieses etc etc.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Ironically those teams were more successful.

Kyle Orton and Rex Grossman have more playoff berths for the Bears than Jay Cutler.

Went to the SB.

Grossman played in 3x as many playoff games for the Bears as Cutler has to this point. Even the years prior to Cutler with Orton as the QB there wasn't some dramatic uptick in OMG our QB is much better now.
 

airtime143

This place is dead and buried.
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
14,991
Liked Posts:
14,795
Again there is no definition for franchise QB

Concrete definition? No.

But if someone makes the claim that by their criteria Cutler is a franchise guy, then application of the same criteria produces in excess of 20 or so franchise guys around the league.
 

ursamajor

D.J. Moore is phat
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
8,176
Liked Posts:
3,993
Location:
HHM’s Head
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Delhomme was on the panthers for the same duration as Jay with the bears... 3 years in the playoffs (5 wins), a super bowl appearance, and a 53-37 record.
Hasselbeck was on seattle 10 years, 5 in the playoffs, 5-6, one super bowl, 3 pro bowls.

Those are light years different than what Cutler has brought chicago.
Did those divisions have excellent teams in them? The equivalent of a Rodgers led Packers.

8-8 won those divisions more often than not. Hell Hasselbeck got into the playoffs with a 7-9 record.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
That and 5 bucks will buy you a cup of Coffee.

Archie Manning was a Franchise QB, and not very accomplished.

Your argument is invalid.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Archie Manning made two PB's for some of the worst professional football teams to take the field. His 1977-1980 were better than anything Cutler has done.
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
Did those divisions have excellent teams in them? The equivalent of a Rodgers led Packers.

8-8 won those divisions more often than not. Hell Hasselbeck got into the playoffs with a 7-9 record.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Ironically Cutler's high point was a win over that bum squad.
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
Did those divisions have excellent teams in them? The equivalent of a Rodgers led Packers.

8-8 won those divisions more often than not. Hell Hasselbeck got into the playoffs with a 7-9 record.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Hasselbeck and the Seahawks had 5 straight winning seasons and made the playoffs each of those years from 2002-2006.

Their combined record was: 51-32 during that stretch.

Delhomme was contending with the Brees lead Saints during the end of his run in Carolina..when he helped them go 12-4.

Again...wut.
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
Who knocked NO out the week prior...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Oh well NOW I'm impressed with Cutler's franchise credentials. Beat team at home who beat another team at home the week before.
 

DaaBears

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
11,919
Liked Posts:
11,667
This from bleacher report, interesting timing July 2009.



But what is a franchise quarterback?

It's odd that you see a word tossed around so much, but no one knows the exact meaning. Everyone talks about who is a franchise QB, but not what is a franchise QB is. You can't label a franchise QB unless you know what it is.

After research about people who are labeled as "franchise quarterbacks" and those who aren't considered as such.

The player must match certain criteria to be considered a franchise quarterback: consistency, talent, leadership/maturity, and football intelligence.



Consistency

In order to be a franchise quarterback or to find one, the player needs to be able to perform a certain level all the time. That doesn't mean he has to be spectacular, but he can perform at a good performance day in and day out.

Someone who throws five touchdown passes and no interceptions in one game, then throws five interceptions and no touchdowns the next would not make a good franchise quarterback.

If someone throws two touchdown passes and one interception in one game, and then repeats that performance every game, that is one step to becoming a "franchise QB."



Talent

You can run the ball as many times as you like, your defense can score as many points as you like. But the fact remains, if you're quarterback is a bum, your team will suffer.

Some teams feature a run first offense, where the quarterback is more of a game manager, but when he is needed, a true franchise QB can step up and make big plays for his team.

Quarterbacks like Joe Flacco, Jake Delhomme, or Ben Roethlisberger aren't asked to throw a lot, nor is anyone expecting great numbers to come out of them. But when the time comes, they all can step up their game, Roethlisberger in particular.



Leadership/Maturity

Players look to their quarterback. They look to them for help, they look for them for guidance, and if a QB is willing to accept that role, then they're not set to be a franchise player.

The entire offense runs around the quarterback, and it's his job to rally his team around him, or they all crumble.

This also includes being a team player. If a quarterback is more concerned about his passer rating over his teams win-loss record, he is doomed for failure.

He must be able to accept responsibility for his mistakes, and not point fingers and cast blame on other offensive players for his shortcomings. He must be able to remain cool under pressure and keep his composure when things get sour.

If he's cracking under pressure, and being a self-centered crybaby, then he isn't qualified.



Football Intelligence

I'm not talking about the player's IQ or Wonderlic score, I'm talking about his on field head game. The quarterback has to know what is going on the field at all times, no exceptions.

He needs to know where the safeties, where his receivers are going. He needs to be able to pick up a blitz and correctly change the play. If there are seven DB's on the field, he should know not to pass it unless he absolutely has to.

This also includes decision making. If he decides to continuously throw the ball into triple coverage, or decides to rush the ball himself into a blitz, he isn't a franchise quarterback.

So using the following criteria, you can know make a list of the franchise quarterbacks of the NFL, who is becoming a franchise quarterback, and who has the potential to be a franchise QB.



Failed Franchise Quarterbacks

Alex Smith—San Fransisco 49ers

Marc Bulger—St. Louis Rams

Derek Anderson—Cleveland Browns

Tyler Thigpen—Kansas City Chiefs

Kyle Boller—Baltimore Ravens (2003-08)



Potential Franchise Quarterbacks

JaMarcus Russell—Oakland Raiders

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Brady Quinn—Cleveland Browns

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Luke McCown—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Byron Leftwitch—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Shaun Hill—San Fransisco 49ers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Sage Rosenfels—Minnesota Vikings

Tarvaris Jackson—Minnesota Vikings

Troy Smith—Baltimore Ravens

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals



Up-and-Coming Franchise Quarterbacks

Matt Ryan—Atlanta Falcons- All criteria, needs another year

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens- All criteria, needs another year

Matt Cassel—Kansas City Chiefs- All criteria, needs another year

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears- All criteria, new team

Kyle Orton—Denver Broncos- All criteria, new team

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals- Needs to stay healthy

Trent Edwards—Buffalo Bills- Needs consistency

Jason Campbell—Washington Redskins- Needs consistency

David Garrard—Jacksonville Jaguars- Needs consistency

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans- Needs to stay healthy

Kerry Collins—Tennessee Titans- Needs consistency

Matt Hasselbeck—Seattle Seahawks- Needs consistency/stay healthy



Current Franchise Quarterbacks

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Philadelphia Eagles

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers

Kurt Warner—Arizona Cardinals

Jake Delhomme—Carolina Panthers

Chad Pennington—Miami Dolphins

I hope you found this list and definition interesting. Hopefully now that people know what a franchise QB really is, people will throw around that word with a little more thought.
 

FirstTimer

v. 2.0: Fully Modded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
May 4, 2010
Posts:
27,077
Liked Posts:
15,145
Blercher Report from 2009....Wow. Trash.
 

DaaBears

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
11,919
Liked Posts:
11,667
Blercher Report from 2009....Wow. Trash.

I thought that their definition of what makes up a franchise quarterback was fine. It was just the names in the various categories below it that were actually so bad they were comical. I probably should have just posted their definition and left it at that.
 

3rd N Long

New member
Joined:
Nov 20, 2014
Posts:
1,592
Liked Posts:
847
Point taken, this year he's off to a rough start though.

And yeah, never gaudy numbers in the regular season though those games against New Orleans and Indianapolis in the playoffs were something for sure.

Will the Bears defense be the cure?
 

onebud34

Packer Fan
Donator
Joined:
Aug 16, 2011
Posts:
22,932
Liked Posts:
12,847
Location:
Favorite Corner Bar
My favorite teams
  1. Minnesota Twins
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Minnesota Wild
Ok. But a team without a Franchise QB, would be the Bears prior to Cutler, with a graphic every game against Green Bay, of the dozens of starting QBs they marched out, over Favre's Tenure. The Burris' the Hutchensons, the Grieses etc etc.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Sadly the Bears were more competitive with GB, sans Cutler.
 

iueyedoc

Variant Also Negotiates
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
21,645
Liked Posts:
26,701
Location:
Mountains to Sea
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Indiana Hoosiers
Going back to the first round QB draft position issue during the SB era, the #1 overall certainly stands out as would stand to reason. But interestingly the 2nd-10th fared about the same as the rest of the first round.

#1 overall pick: 7 of 21 have won a SB.
2nd-10th pick : 5 of 38 have won a SB.
11th-32nd pick: 4 of 43 have won a SB.

Change it to more "elite" picks and non #1 top 5
2nd -5th 3 of 23 have won a SB.
6th -32nd 6 of 68 have won a SB.

It seems that if there is not that clear #1 guy, thent first round draft position has not mattered much historically. And that even that guy comes around about once every 7 years on average (7 over 48 years).
 

Bearly

Guest
Interestingly enough, Tannehill at 52 games in is in a virtual tie with Cutler 52 starts in to his career- Tannehill is at 83.4, Cutler was at 83.8.

Tannehill walked in to a far worse situation than cutler, with a FAR worse supporting cast around him.
That being said, lets call the 2 of them even since it is a bit easier to pass now.
Overall, I think Tannehill is on a decent path- lets see what this year brings.


As for the argument about the two of them- Tannehill is roughly at the point where Cutler was when the Bears traded the franchise for him, and the people coming down on Cutlers side of this are STILL holding out hope and making excuses for Jay.
They are also saying Tannehill is a bust.... Oh, the double standard.


Compare Jays 2008 to Tannehills 2014... Tannehill wins hands down. Yet 4 games removed from that season people are saying he is worse than a guy who is 7 years removed from his fluke season?
It makes zero sense.

Jay is no better than Tannehill, and we will have to wait and see if Tannehill can improve back to last years level and beyond, and that is that.

I think the point was that other than age, Tannehill has not proven to be better. Cutler also had no run game, rookie wide outs, and shit D. It comparable enough. Nothing's ever a perfect match and guys get picked where they do based on the previous years quality of play.
 

Bearly

Guest
Going back to the first round QB draft position issue during the SB era, the #1 overall certainly stands out as would stand to reason. But interestingly the 2nd-10th fared about the same as the rest of the first round.

#1 overall pick: 7 of 21 have won a SB.
2nd-10th pick : 5 of 38 have won a SB.
11th-32nd pick: 4 of 43 have won a SB.

Change it to more "elite" picks and non #1 top 5
2nd -5th 3 of 23 have won a SB.
6th -32nd 6 of 68 have won a SB.

It seems that if there is not that clear #1 guy, thent first round draft position has not mattered much historically. And that even that guy comes around about once every 7 years on average (7 over 48 years).
Which made the gone Goffing stuff fun. He's likely the #1 pick next year. I don't expect to get too near that.
 

Top