TGDT: 10/25 - Ducks (4-3-0) vs. Blackhawks (4-1-2) 7:30 PM

[the canadian dream]

I care more about how well they do in shoot outs when it is against conference opponents and def division ones. When a game goes into a shoot out against an Eatern conference team I tend not to care. Take the point happily all the time. If a shoot out loss is shipping an extra point to a division or conference opponent I tend to care a lot more.



Shoot outs suck as a means of determining that extra point which over the last few years has been extremely important for some teams playoffs hopes.



Variable will probably disagree but i tend to think the shoot out can tell a few things about a goalie. It's the only thing about the shoot out I enjoy is watching the goalies perform. Shoot out's not fair on goalies but they certainly test them. I tend to think a shoot out is more so a goalie test than a shooter test. If that makes any sense.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I care more about how well they do in shoot outs when it is against conference opponents and def division ones. When a game goes into a shoot out against an Eatern conference team I tend not to care. Take the point happily all the time. If a shoot out loss is shipping an extra point to a division or conference opponent I tend to care a lot more.



Shoot outs suck as a means of determining that extra point which over the last few years has been extremely important for some teams playoffs hopes.



Variable will probably disagree but i tend to think the shoot out can tell a few things about a goalie. It's the only thing about the shoot out I enjoy is watching the goalies perform. Shoot out's not fair on goalies but they certainly test them. I tend to think a shoot out is more so a goalie test than a shooter test. If that makes any sense.

I'm still surprised we haven't seen more goalies get injured via shootout. All in all anyone who was a hockey fan before the lockout is for the most part sick of shootouts. After I saw my first on in 05' I was already sick of it, but it sure looks like its here to stay so we might as well become very good at it.

 

[Variable]

I care more about how well they do in shoot outs when it is against conference opponents and def division ones. When a game goes into a shoot out against an Eatern conference team I tend not to care. Take the point happily all the time. If a shoot out loss is shipping an extra point to a division or conference opponent I tend to care a lot more.



Shoot outs suck as a means of determining that extra point which over the last few years has been extremely important for some teams playoffs hopes.



Variable will probably disagree but i tend to think the shoot out can tell a few things about a goalie. It's the only thing about the shoot out I enjoy is watching the goalies perform. Shoot out's not fair on goalies but they certainly test them. I tend to think a shoot out is more so a goalie test than a shooter test. If that makes any sense.

It just speaks more to the joke of an idea of a shootout deciding the game more than it says about goalie performance. I rather them lose in OT every time over the shootout if they're going to lose the game after regulation. It plays no role in the playoffs, so it makes absolutely no difference to me how they perform in them. Especially now since they aren't considered in the tie breaker, there's even less significance. Again when looking at a team falling short of the playoffs, how they do in the shootout is at the bottom of the list for me.



If the Hawks hadn't made the playoffs last season, would you say "Oh if they only had won one more shoot out, they'd be in, we gotta fix that." ? No, that's oversimplifying matters and ignoring much greater problems and other issues and circumstances (massive roster turnover, injuries, Duncan Keith, Cullimore dressing for games, etc). Like the PK, which looks like it's improved two fold so far.

 

[the canadian dream]

lol no if the Hawks hadn't made the playoffs last year I would have been blaming the Minnesota Wild!!!



I understand what you are saying. But when was it 2 or 3 years ago when 2 teams in the East met (cant remember the teams Flyers and Someone maybe?) in the last game of the regular season tied in points and playing for the 8th spot. One of those teams (I believe it was the Flyers) won a playoff spot by winning the shoot out in that game. Both teams obviously had bigger issues in the regular season that probably dictated their record but the bottom line was one team was getting into the playoffs and a few more days of generating revenue due to a shoot out. It's horrible indeed but it's a part of the game now and something that does impact standings.



So while I agree that a teams shoot out record shouldn't cloud a teams real issues on the ice. But it's an element of the game that gives and takes valuable points away throughout a season. It is what it is.



I don't think teams should be practicing the shoot out overwhelmingly in practice. I agree I would much rather see more focus on practicing things like the PP and the PK. I don't even know how you practice a shoot out to be honest. It's just drill work.



i have to cut this post short...there is craziness happening in the Flyers/Jets game right now.

 

[Variable]

It was the Flyers and Rangers, and yes under that circumstance of that single game, the Flyers got in by winning that shoot out and made it all the way to the Final. But when the Rangers look back at their season and how it ended, do they single out the need to get better in shoot outs? No. You're making my point for me when you keep saying it's ridiculous to have the shootout determine games. It speaks little of a goalie's quality and speaks to nothing of the quality of the overall team and what it takes to succeed, especially in the playoffs. So how the Hawks do against Conference opponents or non-Conference opponents in the shoot out makes no difference to me, it's never a factor in the playoffs. It tells me nothing about them as a team.



What really gives and takes valuable points in a season are things like a team's inability to finish an opponent. Being outcoached. A team that plays hard for maybe half the game, but lets up the other half. Or that always has one bad period. Or has a bad penalty kill. A team that gives up gut wrenching last minute goals to end a period on a much too consistent basis that puts them in position to lose or have the game be taken into OT. Sound familiar?

 

[the canadian dream]

I agree with you completely. I am not saying that I think the shoot out should be practiced and worried about. I am just claiming that in my own little mind that I get pissed off when we lose shoot outs to conference opponents. I don't know why but I do. I hate losing no matter how it is done and when it is because of a stupid shoot out I really can't stand it lol.



But yah I agree. Don't agree on the goalie stuff but I agree with the rest. I actually do think that the goalie position isn't only technical it is strongly mental. And I don't think many goalies would disagree. Shoot out is pressure on goalies. Unfair pressure...stupid pressures. There has to be some explanation to why some goalies have strong shoot out records while some have horrible ones. Why some goalies just can't get their shit together during a shoot out. I don't believe in randomness and "luck" as an excuse all the time. That's just me. I don't expect anyone to follow suit.



With that said I would never call out a goalie as being a bad hockey goalie because his shoot out record isn't good. I might call out that goalies mental abilities a little. Hate to do it but the good ole Roberto Luongo is a perfect example. I am sorry Lou is the perfect example of a goalie who just cracks and cracks and cracks mentally so it's an easy go to for an example. And he just proves it time after time in big games and yes even shoot outs. Lou may have the technical talents but he doesn't have the strength mentally. Because you don't take the shoot outs as seriously variable doesn't mean the players on the ice don't. That's the difference btw a fan and a player.

 

[Variable]

Yeah I know they take it seriously, I would hope that they would. They're still in the game, they still have a job to do, whether they agree with the shoot out being in the game or not, I would assume it doesn't change their effort at all when performing in it, they're professionals. But what I don't really understand is fans being upset over it. That's what I was commenting on. If a shoot out happens enough to where it's seriously making a difference on any team's season, meaning that they are going to them an exorbitant amount of the time, then that team has more pressing needs to concern themselves with rather than getting better at shoot outs or worrying about who is taking the shots. Like I said, there's not going to be much change in what the Hawks do anyway, it'll most likely always be Toews and Kane and then one question mark. All this anger about why Stalberg was taking a shot or why Sharp is still taking shots, it's pointless. It doesn't really matter.



And also about the shootout and what it tells us about goalies, I was reading an article (I want to say it was Hockey Prospectus from a year or two ago), and they did a study of the correlation between all the current goalie's shoot out save % to their regular save % to see if the "better" goalies had the better shoot out stats as well. The correlation came out to be something like .002, practically nothing. The shoot out tells you little to nothing about that goalie's overall talent/quality. Shoot out skill is distinct from overall ability. The results of shoot outs don't give you an accurate portrayal of any given goalie's overall ability in net, it's too flawed to take anything concrete from it. I don't really pay mind to it, I just throw it out, much like the shoot out itself, it's a side show. Meaningless.

 

[the canadian dream]

Well look at you bring up stats and science!!!!! SCREW YOU!!!





You win this time Variable.....this time!!!