TGDT: 10/30 Hawks @ Wild 7:00PM WGN

[R K]

Ron, keep in mind that if you put a rotten corpse on the line with Kane and Toews, you could pencil in 40 pts from the corpse over the course of a season, and the corpse would be a popular choice on fantasy teams.

-5Minutes

Interesting perspective on Brouwer today on NHL Talk. In a contract year being put on the lower lines, then when put on the top line he produces.



Just a thought.



Brouwer-Toews-Kane should have been the top Line all year IMO.



Kopecky-Sharp-Hossa the 2nd. Flip em around on which is the Top.



Instead Q started Ben Smith on the top line last night. Yup.





And that's an interesting thought on the rotten corpse. I seem to remember Pisani being up there a few games and not doing anything. Skille a couple of games, ect ect.

 

[PatrickShart]

And since those teams are winning all the games in hand, being that I like to gamble, do I get a refund if I bet them and they lose?

 

[PatrickShart]

RK....its about trying to get scoring out of 3 lines. If you look at all the line combos, Q has tried to do that.



If you look back at all of Scottie Bowman's teams, he's a HUGE believer in that. 2 scorers and 1 "checker" or role player. There's no doubt that Q has adapted that philosophy along the way. Right or wrong....its been thier philosophy. I think its good during the long course of the season. At times, lines can be loaded up - end of period, after a PK, trailing in the game....but for the most part, if you look at line combos, thats been the case.



And Ben Smith - did alot of good things out there that I think translated to other players. The team has been lacking in the puck support and he was always around the puck. Little things like that can go a long way into rubbing off on the rest of the team (like when Hossa backchecks).

 

[Kerfuffle]

Ok...those games in hand. How many are against each other? Do they both get 2 points in those games....or are they against invisible teams....or other conference? Does anyone get hurt, suspended in those games played? Do they run into a hot goalie in one of those games?

Take St. Louis and Detroit - both have played 9 games to our 13. So they both have potentially 8 points on the table for the taking. Will they get all 8 - probably not - but it's certainly possible for each of them to rattle off 4 wins in a row. That would put the Hawks 7 pts out of the lead. Want to be conservative and not think they'll win all 4 games ? Fine - give them half of those points at 4 a piece. Hawks are then trailing by 3 pts. Either way we're trailing and trying to catch those teams. If all you do is just look at the standing and see the Hawks in 2nd place then you're assuming that Detroit and St. Louis lose all 8 pts on the table still - I doubt that's going to happen. The thing they have going for them is the points are on the table and can be taken whereas the Hawks have nothing to show for that 4 game difference.

 

[maryo]

GAAAAAH!!! I am so fucking sick of people using the lame ass argument that anyone can produce given certain line mates. IT'S BULLSHIT! A guy still has to be a playmaker, he's still got to be positionally sound and do his part. There are no fucking "free" points. It's the NHL. It's not easy.

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

The third guy on a line with Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp (pick 2) is often there based on effort and hunger. Remember Bick coming in in the Preds series? Smith played hard on Friday and got rewarded. Let's face it, Brow's effort and energy most of the season so far has been underwhelming. Not picking on him, that can be said about many players.



-5Minutes

 

[PatrickShart]

STL...next 4gms -

vs San Jose

@ Boston

@NY Rangers

@ Columbus



Could a 1-3 happen?? Or is that impossible?

 

[R K]

RK....its about trying to get scoring out of 3 lines. If you look at all the line combos, Q has tried to do that.



If you look back at all of Scottie Bowman's teams, he's a HUGE believer in that. 2 scorers and 1 "checker" or role player. There's no doubt that Q has adapted that philosophy along the way. Right or wrong....its been thier philosophy. I think its good during the long course of the season. At times, lines can be loaded up - end of period, after a PK, trailing in the game....but for the most part, if you look at line combos, thats been the case.



And Ben Smith - did alot of good things out there that I think translated to other players. The team has been lacking in the puck support and he was always around the puck. Little things like that can go a long way into rubbing off on the rest of the team (like when Hossa backchecks).

Ben Smith would make a decent 4th liner. Not first.

 

[R K]

The third guy on a line with Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp (pick 2) is often there based on effort and hunger. Remember Bick coming in in the Preds series? Smith played hard on Friday and got rewarded. Let's face it, Brow's effort and energy most of the season so far has been underwhelming. Not picking on him, that can be said about many players.



-5Minutes

But like I said with Brouwer it's primarily where he's been playing. Not to mention no one on Bollands line has been productive.



I disagree with you as I pointed out. The 3rd guy on some of those lines, IE Pisani et al have not been productive. From what I saw that line dominated at times last night. There was a reason it was a line most of last year and NOT split until the finals.

 

[R K]

GAAAAAH!!! I am so fucking sick of people using the lame ass argument that anyone can produce given certain line mates. IT'S BULLSHIT! A guy still has to be a playmaker, he's still got to be positionally sound and do his part. There are no fucking "free" points. It's the NHL. It's not easy.

You know dear if you keep this up I'm going to pull my hair out!

 

[Rdrhwke]

The depth is fine. Lack of practice and continuity is what has been missing.



For people to think "it's only Minny"? Come on....watch the game. Those guys are pro's too. Koivu, Havlat, Brunette, Cullen, Burns, Zidlicky...while the Hawks had about 16mil of talent out of the lineup in Hossa, Campbell and Bolland.

No, the depth is not fine.



As far as Minny having pro's; every team in the NHL has "pro's". That doesn't mean every team in the league is good by any means.



As far as gauging how much of a loss a player is to any given team. I'll go with production over price tag any day of the week. So I fail to see how much Hossa, Campbell and Bolland make means anything. If how much a player made meant anything, then add Huet to the list.

 

[PatrickShart]

Ben Smith would make a decent 4th liner. Not first.

And he was 7th in TOI ...3rd line minutes.



He didnt play every shift with Toews and Kane.

 

[R K]

And he was 7th in TOI ...3rd line minutes.



He didnt play every shift with Toews and Kane.

No, because Q removed him shortly after that and played him on the 3rd line. And moved Brouwer up to the first.



I will also point out I suggested replacing Bolland with Poltuny 5 games ago. Giving the 3rd line a chance as Bolland has not been here for more than several games.



It's not about playing musical lines. It's about having two massive lines and then finding continuity on the other two.



The 4th line has been one of the best lines all season. While they have not produced much, IMO that comes in time and has started already with Dowell three goals. Stalberg 2, ect ect...



My only concern now that they have called Poltuny up does he have to clear waivers on the way back down. We have very little depth at C past him.



Not to mention I'd like him on the 2nd PP. He was 2nd on a bad oilers team last year in PP goals.

 

[PatrickShart]

No, the depth is not fine.



As far as Minny having pro's; every team in the NHL has "pro's". That doesn't mean every team in the league is good by any means.



As far as gauging how much of a loss a player is to any given team. I'll go with production over price tag any day of the week. So I fail to see how much Hossa, Campbell and Bolland make means anything. If how much a player made meant anything, then add Huet to the list.

So 2 top 6 forwards and a top 3 Dman....is that production nothing?



The Hawks were soooo much deeper last year, after 13gms last year that averaged a whopping .12 more goals per game at this point. Hawks are 2 points behind where they were last year, and the only player they didnt have last year was Hossa. This year, been without Campbell, Hossa (for 2 now), Hjalmarsson for 2.5, now Bolland for 1.....thats not depth?

 

[Ton]

No, because Q removed him shortly after that and played him on the 3rd line. And moved Brouwer up to the first.



I will also point out I suggested replacing Bolland with Poltuny 5 games ago. Giving the 3rd line a chance as Bolland has not been here for more than several games.



It's not about playing musical lines. It's about having two massive lines and then finding continuity on the other two.



The 4th line has been one of the best lines all season. While they have not produced much, IMO that comes in time and has started already with Dowell three goals. Stalberg 2, ect ect...



My only concern now that they have called Poltuny up does he have to clear waivers on the way back down. We have very little depth at C past him.



Not to mention I'd like him on the 2nd PP. He was 2nd on a bad oilers team last year in PP goals.

Right behind Dustin Penner. Not bad. His 7 goals would have been tied with Brouwer for third, right behind Kane and Toews with 9 a piece.

 

[PatrickShart]

No, because Q removed him shortly after that and played him on the 3rd line. And moved Brouwer up to the first.



I will also point out I suggested replacing Bolland with Poltuny 5 games ago. Giving the 3rd line a chance as Bolland has not been here for more than several games.



It's not about playing musical lines. It's about having two massive lines and then finding continuity on the other two.



The 4th line has been one of the best lines all season. While they have not produced much, IMO that comes in time and has started already with Dowell three goals. Stalberg 2, ect ect...



My only concern now that they have called Poltuny up does he have to clear waivers on the way back down. We have very little depth at C past him.



Not to mention I'd like him on the 2nd PP. He was 2nd on a bad oilers team last year in PP goals.

I agree with your Bolland Potulny swap as well (and worry if they'll lose him as well). I think he did play on a PP unit in the 3rd (I think...dont quote me on that).



You're philosophy would be to load up 2...theirs is spread amongst 3. Doesnt mean your right/they're wrong. As long as they key players are on the ice at the right times, IMO.....and I think Q runs a good bench.

 

[R K]

Yea I'm not sure I agree on the Depth argument much either. Had this team lost Campbell for the first 15 games last year where would they have been?



Most of the rest is the same as in Hossa being out and Bolland not playing well due to his back last year.



I think there is more forward depth, in Morin, Makarov, Beach, that have not even been used at this point.



Depth at Center is a question but that would be my only problem, other than maybe 5-6 Dman.



Chemistry folks. Chemistry. It's HUGE!



With better chemistry and less "crucial mistakes" this team could easily have 6 more points right now. They are fine.

 

[R K]

I agree with your Bolland Potulny swap as well (and worry if they'll lose him as well). I think he did play on a PP unit in the 3rd (I think...dont quote me on that).



You're philosophy would be to load up 2...theirs is spread amongst 3. Doesnt mean your right/they're wrong. As long as they key players are on the ice at the right times, IMO.....and I think Q runs a good bench.

Q just baffles me at times. His line maneuvers often seem very unnecessary and almost counter productive.



I'm not falling off the ledge though. I expected the chemistry to pose some issues early on. Long before I knew Campbell would be out, Bolland would be off and clearly injured, and all the other adversity this team has already faced. Far more than last year at this time, with guys that had already played on the same team for a season or more for the most part.



I also am so glad we are a good road team. And the fact that this team can win games with ALL this adversity, Cap losses and Health losses now is quite amazing. Add the fact that their dumb mistakes have probably cost 2-3 games, and Yikes. I expect when Campbell and Hossa return the determination will be there and good things will come.



Wait till some of these other teams start facing adversity.

 

[Ton]

So 2 top 6 forwards and a top 3 Dman....is that production nothing?



The Hawks were soooo much deeper last year, after 13gms last year that averaged a whopping .12 more goals per game at this point. Hawks are 2 points behind where they were last year, and the only player they didnt have last year was Hossa. This year, been without Campbell, Hossa (for 2 now), Hjalmarsson for 2.5, now Bolland for 1.....thats not depth?

Bolland isn't a top 6 forward. From the bottom 6 lines (Bickell, Dowell, Stalberg, Skille, Bolland, Pisani) there have been a total of 8 goals. 6 of them came from Dowell and Stalberg... Kopecky and Brouwer have yet to score more than a single goal.



Our only depth has come from the 4th line. Not sure what you call that. Its not as if guys like Brouwer and Bolland can't score. Pisani has had many 15+ goal years... Kopecky, I won't really get on his case much but he should be popping more in the net as well.



The lack of depth is pretty obvious, I'm pretty sure no one had 10 goals at this point in the year last year... 3 of them being game winners. (Sharp)



Guys like Sharp, Turco, Hoss before he was injured, and to a lesser extent, Seabrook were carrying this team. Good thing Keith has started to step it up and IMO Kane as well.

 

[PatrickShart]

And throw in the limited practice time with the 10gms in the first 17 days....it's been a "learn on the fly" and determine roles as they go.



To be right where they were (2pts behind) last year at this point.....I'm not worried.



They'll have more time off down the stretch which may help.