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I'm surrounded by Cardinal fans. Could you just let me rage about them a bit without sharing observational facts I agree with, TC?
Bear Pride
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I find it dumb that some people think that a manager can not win games ..........
I find it moronic that they justify that opinion cuz the manager doesn't play in the game!
I find it moronic that they justify that opinion cuz the manager doesn't play in the game!
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Technically speaking, he can't win a ball game. He isn't pitching, hitting or fielding, but his decisions and the way he handles players certainly can account positively for wins. Managerial WAR is so difficult to judge, but surely he has to be in consideration for Manager of the Year.
Bear Pride
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Technically speaking.... or metrically speaking? This is where metrics gets absurd, imo. Actions reflect leadership. If you use a screwdriver for a job where you needed a hammer, is it the screwdrivers fault, or is it the hammers success had you used it? Cray cray, imo.
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I agree. It's just that some people have to break everything down into cute little stats. Maddon more than passes the eye test as improving this team in the W column, IMHO.
TC in Mississippi
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What a manager does outside the confines of a game matters more than in game actions. The players are responsible for most, but not, all of what happens on the field. This is why those that study such things usually say that a manager affects a game +/- 3-5 wins. This makes some sense because it would be hard to make a detailed, factual case otherwise. Even there they think they are giving something up because it really, even at that, doesn't qualify as a metric. In the absence of quantifiable metrics all you are left with is opinions. You can't win a logical argument with opinions, the best you can do is come to a draw.
On the other hand there is a metric that is directly assigned to a manager and in fact his employment hinges on it to a large degree. Obviously that metric is wins. If you've watched baseball for any length of time you can see what Joe Maddon has done for this team and they're almost too numerous to document. Things like "respect 90", "don't let the pressure exceed the pleasure", the way he handles the psychology of the game differently depending on the player , the way the team is prepared after tough losses and even how they handle those losses and when they come in streaks. As I've pointed out many time that's managing in a general sense not just not in a baseball sense. Maddon has a philosophy that he is able to impart to the team and is true to it daily. Anybody that has ever worked for a great boss or a bad boss can attest to how that works, but you can't really quantify it. Still a leader in a business venture is judged by how he achieves the company's goals. A baseball manager's goal is to win more games than they lose and ultimately win the World Series. His goals also coincide with the organizational goals though so even there a metric not really possible.
So player stats are more and more quantifiable every year. WAR has even allowed us to rank players by a number account for how many wins they give to their team and to some even that is controversial so you're not ever going to win an argument about a manager with opinions. That said I have eyes and have been a baseball fan for over 40 years. I played the game as a young kid and in high school, I know what to look for in a team beyond the record. What I've seen out of Joe Maddon this year is one of the greatest transformational jobs of managing I have ever seen. Because it came concurrently with an influx of talent it makes it difficult to separate where one begins and the other ends, but if talent is difficult to manage young talent is all the more difficult. The four rookies on this team all have different skills, personalities and experience level. No team has ever made it to the postseason with four rookie starters playing as many games with as many at bats as this team and yet they're coming awfully close to locking up that feat. In fact, only four of those teams with four rookies have won as many of 86 games. With over a hundred years of baseball to back up that stat I didn't feel this team could make the playoffs, especially when Schwarber came up to make the threesome a quartet. Maybe Joe Maddon is a Star Trek fan, never quote me the odds. You can argue that Joe Maddon isn't responsible for more than a few wins this season but you would be wrong but no I can't give you a metric on that.
Bear Pride
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I'm surrounded by Cardinal fans. Could you just let me rage about them a bit without sharing observational facts I agree with, TC?
How are your surrounding nowadays? :lol:
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Most are humbled, but the few jag bags who remain are suffering in a place of great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
TC in Mississippi
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Most are humbled, but the few jag bags who remain are suffering in a place of great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I have a contact at a vendor in St. Louis, a lifelong Cardinals fan and season ticket holder, who I've known for ten years. I had to call him today for something and he didn't answer. He then emailed me and said "I'm sorry, I can't talk to you today. I'll get back to you tomorrow or let me know what you need via email"
Bear Pride
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LOL... I was talking to one of my customers the other day. He was complimentary about the Cubs, but told me that the Cubs were about to face a real team in the playoffs. I wonder if I lost a customer? :thinking:
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I think this crosses the line from "fan" to "fanatic". When people get so wrapped up in the victories and losses of teams they root for and it negatively impacts their work, there is something very wrong.
TC in Mississippi
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I have to admit there was a time in my life where I wasn't far from that, but it didn't affect work though. I was just grumpy. I've known a lot of guys like that over the years though (and one girl actually) who went into severe depressions when their teams failed. One guy I knew quit his job after the NLCS in 2003 and locked himself in his apartment for basically a month. It never surprises me to see the behavior, but you are correct that it is not healthy.
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That's a long conversation to have in a McDonald's drive-thru.
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NICE CALL, because no matter what happens going forward, they already fucking have!!!!!!!!!
:saxy::beerbang::woot::hi5:
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brett05
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Does JJ still think Lester is a bum??
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Yeah, getting swept by the Mets was pretty shocking.
DJMoore_is_fat
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All Hail OP!
Great call, man. I thought we'd be a .500 team in 2015. I had no idea Babe Schwarber would turn into the best player in the history of organized sports over night.
Great call, man. I thought we'd be a .500 team in 2015. I had no idea Babe Schwarber would turn into the best player in the history of organized sports over night.
Bear Pride
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I can't say I'm surprised you would have a comment like that. :smh: You're a great fan, man.
I'm very disappointed the Cubs got swept by the Mets. So much that I had to take a week off of sports to get over it. Having said that, I have a real comfortable contentment feeling about the Cubs in some time.
What they did this year definitely "shocked the World", imo. They made all the Cubs bashers and Theo doubters look foolish. And yes, they even allowed fans like you back on the Wagon...
Mostly, they transformed the organization from a total rebuild into a classy organization that has built the team the right way. They alerted the MLB public that they are here to stay, and that "wait until next year" actually means something for a change.
Great teams sometimes have to Lose in order to learn how to win. I believe this 'sweep' by the Mets will be a great learning lesson for the Cubs. It will help our young team to realize that it's not easy to win it all.
Had we beat the Mets, I really didn't believe that we'd beat KC.... a team that lost last year. :thinking:
The best thing about the Cubs getting swept, however, it will keep some the idiots from spamming the Cubs MB all off season, including hopefully.... YOU!