The Marriage/Relationship Thread (for Bri)

[BlackHawkPaul]

In my case, it's the only way I know of to bring my fiancee here without raising the ire of Arizona.



I do think many aspects of it need to be revamped, though. Personally, I don't need to stand before some deity, some "holy person" who claims to talk to invisible beings, or a representative of the state to swear that I'll love someone forever--I can do that on my own. But that's not to say I won't do it for omeone who's worth it...



...and just fake it the deity/holy person.

My wife and I were/are the same way.

Her cousin married us at the Elks Lodge in Indiana. It took 15 minutes, and we turned the place back into a party hall and had one hell of an evening.

 

[winos5]

I am actually neutral on the topic.

I think 2 people can make a relationship work without the idea of marriage. But it boils down to the individuals involved, values, and an understanding of needs. I read Allan Bloom and his stance on marriage in The Closing of the American Mind, and he brings up points in the collapse of marriage being that men and women are different, so needs are different. This is paraphrasing, and I'm really boiling down his point, but his argument seemed to be that opposite sexes are really here to procreate to keep the human species moving forward, and the relationship part is what has failed.

More or less that men understand men, and women understand women. Then you get the uncommon instances in which marriage works.

I'm not in full agreement of Bloom, but I see his point.



Getting back to bri's statement--

Is marriage a joke? No

Statistics will say yes. Divorces are very high, which means infidelity is probably higher. The question to ask is why is this? Who is leading the charge on why marriages are failing? Hell if I know.

Who here is in a successful relationship/marriage? How long? What makes it work? Are there differences in one relationship to the next? Happily married for19 years. Co-dependancy er.... effective communication, love and respect.

What makes it fail? Do we need symbolism (rings, etc.) to justify love for our partners? Not in any particular order; Money, sex, infidelity, religious differences, kids or lack there of . My wedding ring got broken while moving into a home (it was cheap). Never replaced it. The little lady rarely wears hers or the engagement ring anymore (suspect it's a fit issue though)Do we need the church (more or less a higher power to help govern a marriage)? Does it basically boil down to the agreement by law? I'd say that depends on a couples nedds/wants.

 

[Ymono37]

Nor did the wife and I, we had a self affirmation ceremony where he married eachother. (no blood test either, I love CO.) Then just for good measure we had the Sexy Rev preside over us at our reception back here.

I won't get into my detailed feelings on this thread... but I will say this:



As a "Reverend," I've legalized marriages for 5 couples as well as presided over an another ceremony. I'm not convinced marriage is a "forever" thing anymore, nor do I believe everyone has 1 special someone... I do know that I would not have agreed to officiate for the folks I did (most of whom I met through a shared love of the Hawks) unless I felt good that the two being joined together did not have a solid bond built on communication, trust and respect for one another.



In small ways, it's done a lot to help me believe in marriage especially in these times. Unfortunately, people's bigotry regarding *** marriage and the ease of divorce do more to discourage me personally every day.

 

[TSD]

I think alot of people take it as the next step in their life and do it because "they are supposed to". Like they have their life planned out and need to be married and have kids by X time and dont bother to check, is this person right for me? I too do not believe in "soul mates", but I do believe there are people that are for sure much more your match than others.



I just know too many people that seemed to hyper jump right to marriage before the dust settled on their college diploma.



Sometimes I wonder If I am just trying to hold onto my youth, and marriage is that last step into, you aint a kid anymore. I keep thinking whether I want to marry someone should be blatantly obvious to me, and if it isnt, does that mean I dont want to be with this person, or is there not this light bulb going off in your head and you just need to take the leap. Who the **** knows, I sure as hell don't.

 

[MassHavoc]

I believe that people have a perfect match out there for them. I just don't believe that there is only one. In the end. We all settle. We inherently hate and love all people, just some we love more, some we hate more. Find the one you love the most, and the hate won't be so bad.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

My mother has been married twice.



My father has been married three times.



Do I still believe Marriage can work? Yes I do. Do I think it doesn't work for some people? Yes as stats have shown divorce is very high right now.



Will I get married? More then likely, but I'm going to make sure it's a solid relationship and not a "Oh yeah, we've been together for 5 months and never lived with each other, but hey **** it, lets get married tomorrow!" kind of deal.



Do I approve same sex marriage? I think everybody has the right to be miserable. In all seriousness, It's not affecting me so I don't really care at this point.

 

[TSD]

My mother has been married twice.



My father has been married three times.



Do I still believe Marriage can work? Yes I do. Do I think it doesn't work for some people? Yes as stats have shown divorce is very high right now.



Will I get married? More then likely, but I'm going to make sure it's a solid relationship and not a "Oh yeah, we've been together for 5 months and never lived with each other, but hey **** it, lets get married tomorrow!" kind of deal.



Do I approve same sex marriage? I think everybody has the right to be miserable. In all seriousness, It's not affecting me so I don't really care at this point.

The worst candidates for marriage in my opinion are highschool sweethearts. Not saying they will always fail in our modern society, but I am willing to bet a HUGE chunk of divorcee's were a highschool couple. You go through alot of changes and independent growing from highschool throughout your 20's. I am not even close to the same person I was when I was 16 or 17 years old, hell im not even the same person I was when i was 21. That and I think if youve been with someone since highschool adds are you never tapped any other ass, and depending on what type of person you are you may begin to wonder what you have been missing out on.

 

[jakobeast]

Lemme be a dick and answer the question with a question.



If the institution of marriage wasn't around, would you invent it?

 

[TSD]

Lemme be a dick and answer the question with a question.



If the institution of marriage wasn't around, would you invent it?

Its almost impossible to answer that question. If the institution of marriage didnt exist our entire worldview would be different in that situation. i.e. we would be answering it with the experiences of a world that had it. Unless thats the point of the question. I would have to say that depends. If The world without marriage was somehow better off, no i wouldnt invent it, if it was worse, yes I would.

 

[jakobeast]

Its almost impossible to answer that question. If the institution of marriage didnt exist our entire worldview would be different in that situation. i.e. we would be answering it with the experiences of a world that had it. Unless thats the point of the question. I would have to say that depends. If The world without marriage was somehow better off, no i wouldnt invent it, if it was worse, yes I would.

I get what you are saying. It was a bit rhetorical, but if a good healthy discussion comes from it it is a good thing.



I ask because there was a comedian that brought it up. I think it was Doug Stanhope. Would you invent marriage if it didn't exist? "Oh baby, what we got is sooooo good we got to get the government involved".



Marriage is a religious creation imo. That's fine, and by all means, if you want to enter into a covenant with your God of choice, bless you both. That means the government should stay out of it. Stay out of my bedroom, unless you get me drunk first government.



I do understand that are circumstances in marriage, and to that end divorce, where the government has to be involved. IE property and such. The above was really just me going to and extreme to convey my stupid point.



As far a religion goes, if my lady and I aren't married and have a kid or 7, we are going to hell? What about all the other animals in the world? There's one of my problems with organized religion.



Some animals are monogamous. Far more are non monogamous. It is a choice for humans.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

So, because marriage is such a sacred covenant, you should stay with a person, even though you truly hate and detest the person you are with? Yeah, you loved that person, with all of your heart and fiber when you married them, but time has created a cavernous rift, that can't be fixed, you should stay with them, because you uttered the words "Till death do us part" in a Church??? Sorry, I don't see where that makes sense. People do drift apart, it's human nature.



With that said, I don't think most people consider marriage a joke, the only ones who do are the ones that marry for convenience (green card, things of that nature). I think 90% of them do not understand what they are getting into when they get married. I am on my second marriage, I married the first time in 1988. Simply put, I was too immature, and so was she. I hadn't turned 21 yet and she was only 19, we had no clue what the **** we were doing.



Knowing where this whole thread started, you can believe in the Fairy tale romance and love, there is nothing wrong with that, just be pragmatic enough to understand it probably wont last forever. In the fairy tales they dont talk about bills, jobs, cleaning up after each other, or anything like that.

 

[The Count Dante]

"Till Death Do Us Part" was good when the average life expectancy was 40.



Marriage, hell even monogamy, goes against the grain (although I have been labeled by ex's as a "serial monogamist").

 

[TSD]

So, because marriage is such a sacred covenant, you should stay with a person, even though you truly hate and detest the person you are with? Yeah, you loved that person, with all of your heart and fiber when you married them, but time has created a cavernous rift, that can't be fixed, you should stay with them, because you uttered the words "Till death do us part" in a Church??? Sorry, I don't see where that makes sense. People do drift apart, it's human nature.



With that said, I don't think most people consider marriage a joke, the only ones who do are the ones that marry for convenience (green card, things of that nature). I think 90% of them do not understand what they are getting into when they get married. I am on my second marriage, I married the first time in 1988. Simply put, I was too immature, and so was she. I hadn't turned 21 yet and she was only 19, we had no clue what the **** we were doing.



Knowing where this whole thread started, you can believe in the Fairy tale romance and love, there is nothing wrong with that, just be pragmatic enough to understand it probably wont last forever. In the fairy tales they dont talk about bills, jobs, cleaning up after each other, or anything like that.

my number 1 hate on romantic comedies and the like. At the beginning of a relationship it always seems perfect. This person is great, were perfect for eachother bla bla bla. They fail to fast forward a couple years down the road when everything is old hat and that spark if you will seems to have fizzled out. Its not for lack of love of the other person, but I think when you get to that point where you are so used to eachother, you may take that person for granted and then many little things can start to grate on your nerves, and many decide to call it quits at that point, not realizing it is highly likely you will get to that point with anyone you are with, they wont always have that new car smell.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

my number 1 hate on romantic comedies and the like. At the beginning of a relationship it always seems perfect. This person is great, were perfect for eachother bla bla bla. They fail to fast forward a couple years down the road when everything is old hat and that spark if you will seems to have fizzled out. Its not for lack of love of the other person, but I think when you get to that point where you are so used to eachother, you may take that person for granted and then many little things can start to grate on your nerves, and many decide to call it quits at that point, not realizing it is highly likely you will get to that point with anyone you are with, they wont always have that new car smell.

I'll agree with you on one thing, some people do not try to fix things, they just go the "**** you, I want a divorce" route. But there are others, that refuse to give up. Even though everyone else sees that they don't belong together, that there is no way to repair the relationship, they continue to torment and destroy each others lives.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

I get what you are saying. It was a bit rhetorical, but if a good healthy discussion comes from it it is a good thing.



I ask because there was a comedian that brought it up. I think it was Doug Stanhope. Would you invent marriage if it didn't exist? "Oh baby, what we got is sooooo good we got to get the government involved".



It's easy to pose the question, but I think some form would exist if you wiped the slate clean. Humans have an uncanny need to bond with others, whether it be sexual, social, etc.



Marriage is a religious creation imo. That's fine, and by all means, if you want to enter into a covenant with your God of choice, bless you both. That means the government should stay out of it. Stay out of my bedroom, unless you get me drunk first government.



That would make division of property quite interesting at separation. With most religious institutions favoring males, there would be disparity among the couples.



I do understand that are circumstances in marriage, and to that end divorce, where the government has to be involved. IE property and such. The above was really just me going to and extreme to convey my stupid point.



You proved your point?.



As far a religion goes, if my lady and I aren't married and have a kid or 7, we are going to hell? What about all the other animals in the world? There's one of my problems with organized religion.



I think that's for another thread. I'm not saying that I don't agree, but the human brain is just a tad more evolved than that of a lung fish. If you would like to start the Problems With Organized Religion thread, I will try my best to contribute. I understand where you're going, but even atheists can **** up relationships. More or less, whose hell am I going to?



Some animals are monogamous. Far more are non monogamous. It is a choice for humans.



I don't think Canadian Geese have issues with papa goose coming home and beating the shit out of mama goose because dinner got too cold.

 

[TSD]

Only one complaint on your post Paul. The human brain is NOT more evolved than that of a lung fish, it is more complex. Yes I am splitting hairs on semantics, but its true.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Only one complaint on your post Paul. The human brain is NOT more evolved than that of a lung fish, it is more complex. Yes I am splitting hairs on semantics, but its true.

Well, they must know that marriage is shit, so point taken.

The lung fish...



Fucking splitter!!

 

[LordKOTL]

So, because marriage is such a sacred covenant, you should stay with a person, even though you truly hate and detest the person you are with? Yeah, you loved that person, with all of your heart and fiber when you married them, but time has created a cavernous rift, that can't be fixed, you should stay with them, because you uttered the words "Till death do us part" in a Church??? Sorry, I don't see where that makes sense. People do drift apart, it's human nature.



With that said, I don't think most people consider marriage a joke, the only ones who do are the ones that marry for convenience (green card, things of that nature). I think 90% of them do not understand what they are getting into when they get married. I am on my second marriage, I married the first time in 1988. Simply put, I was too immature, and so was she. I hadn't turned 21 yet and she was only 19, we had no clue what the **** we were doing.



Knowing where this whole thread started, you can believe in the Fairy tale romance and love, there is nothing wrong with that, just be pragmatic enough to understand it probably wont last forever. In the fairy tales they dont talk about bills, jobs, cleaning up after each other, or anything like that.

I really hope that wasn't an indictment against me...

 

[bubbleheadchief]

I really hope that wasn't an indictment against me...

Uh, no...in this case...."What you talking about Willis??"

 

[bri]

I really hope that wasn't an indictment against me...

Hun, think it was meant for me cause of the mention of Fairytale.