The Myth Of "Finishing Checks" Thread

[Diehardfan]

There are many reasons why the NHL is still a small player in the world of professional sports. Terrible upper league management is usually tabbed as the main culprit but what is generally overlooked is the fact that the NHL is the only pro league that plays by two sets of rules. I'm not talking about two rule books, Im talking about the difference in the way the games are officiated between regular season and the playoffs. Why should playoff games be officiated any differently than a game played in December? There is not a single major pro sport that changes it's "rules" when the playoffs start....not even the sport with the worst officials, the NBA. It's just NHL hockey. Ever wonder why the Stanley Cup playoffs are so wildly and brutally entertaining? Because it's allowed to be.

A perfect example is the term "finishing checks"....a term BTW, that you seldom hear during the regualr season. The reason being that the majority of these so called "finished checks" are in reality late hits that during the regular season are called boarding or charging....which from what I hear are still penalties. These are very dangerous hits put on players that are, for the most part, in no position to protect themselves....hits made after a player has just made a pass. Players usually go out early and see what they can get away with and take it from there and in the playoffs they let them get away with a lot.

Why is this allowed only at playoff time? Good question. Probably has to do with TV dollars which higher ratings provide the networks with. Don't get me wrong, its entertaining as hell but there's no way it should be allowed. If the NHL is going to allow this, then remove the boarding and charging penaties or at least re-word them.

How do you think the NFL would look if in the playoffs if they stopped calling pass interference or late hits? It would certainly cheapen the league.

 

[FirstTimer]

yeah, they seem to let a lot of stuff go during the postseason...but its always been like that, so teams should know what to expect.

What I don't understand is how the coaches in the NHL can avoid punishment for putting in "hatchet men" during the postseason. I was watching the Red Wings-Ducks game and midway through the game Detroit puts a scrub on the ice whose first action is to skate down and launch himself into a Ducks player's face. Why does the coach not face some type of suspension for this?

This.

Fighting in hockey is fucking stupid anyways.

 

[Diehardfan]

yeah, they seem to let a lot of stuff go during the postseason...but its always been like that, so teams should know what to expect.

What I don't understand is how the coaches in the NHL can avoid punishment for putting in "hatchet men" during the postseason. I was watching the Red Wings-Ducks game and midway through the game Detroit puts a scrub on the ice whose first action is to skate down and launch himself into a Ducks player's face. Why does the coach not face some type of suspension for this?

Heh, most of the time the player doesnt even get an instigator penalty much less a suspension. It's always the quick, easy way out with 5 each for fighting. Its the only part of the playoffs I hate. If a team wants hit everything in sight and get right into their opponents face, they should be prepared to accept some penalty time for their trouble. Call the damn games the same whether its opening night or game 7 of the finals.

 

[Capt. Serious]

This.

Fighting in hockey is fucking stupid anyways.

Um, no, not really.

Part of the game brah.

 

[nwfisch]

Um, no, not really.

Part of the game brah.

He probably got beat up on the ice at some point in his life.

 

[FirstTimer]

Um, no, not really.

Part of the game brah.

I never said it wasn't part of the game. I said it's stupid. Which it is.

 

[Jntg4]

This.

Fighting in hockey is fucking stupid anyways.

So true

 

[HawkWriter]

Certain fights serve a purpose. I'm not a fan of fighting because of a clean hit or staged fights...but there are plenty of fights that are worthwhile and make sense on the ice. There are times when a message needs to be sent, momentum needs to shift, or two guys need to leave it on the ice...that is when fighting makes sense. As a player, you can really feel the surge on the ice when a worthwhile fight takes place.

In terms of finishing checks, in the playoffs players hit more. It is that simple. Even Kane is taking the body in the playoffs. This is why you will see more hits and more players go "out of their way" to make the hit. I disagree in saying that most/a lot of these hits are late hits that should be considered boarding or charging. Just don't see it that way. Hard hits and more hits doesn't mean that something illegal is going on. When boarding or charging has taken place, I've seen it called in the playoffs just like it would in the regular season.

 

[FirstTimer]

Certain fights serve a purpose. I'm not a fan of fighting because of a clean hit or staged fights...but there are plenty of fights that are worthwhile and make sense on the ice. There are times when a message needs to be sent, momentum needs to shift, or two guys need to leave it on the ice...that is when fighting makes sense. As a player, you can really feel the surge on the ice when a worthwhile fight takes place.

In terms of finishing checks, in the playoffs players hit more. It is that simple. Even Kane is taking the body in the playoffs. This is why you will see more hits and more players go "out of their way" to make the hit. I disagree in saying that most/a lot of these hits are late hits that should be considered boarding or charging. Just don't see it that way. Hard hits and more hits doesn't mean that something illegal is going on. When boarding or charging has taken place, I've seen it called in the playoffs just like it would in the regular season.

Prove momentum shifts when there is a fight. Prove fighting is more effective than scoring goals to shift momentum. Hell prove fighting is more effective than words to shift momentum. I've seen plenty of fights where the teams ends up losing despite winning the fight. I've seen teams win despite losing the fight.

Meatball bullshit.

 

[HawkWriter]

Prove momentum shifts when there is a fight. Prove fighting is more effective than scoring goals to shift momentum. Hell prove fighting is more effective than words to shift momentum. I've seen plenty of fights where the teams ends up losing despite winning the fight. I've seen teams win despite losing the fight.

Meatball bullshit.

Winning or losing the fight has very, very little with how the momentum shifts - I certainly didn't say otherwise. It is all about what the fight is over and what it stands for. Also, who fights who can spark the momentum. Two big goons in a staged fight does very little.

I'm speaking from personal experience here with the EJ. I don't have statistical proof, just how I have felt in these situations on the ice.

 

[nwfisch]

Prove momentum shifts when there is a fight. Prove fighting is more effective than scoring goals to shift momentum. Hell prove fighting is more effective than words to shift momentum. I've seen plenty of fights where the teams ends up losing despite winning the fight. I've seen teams win despite losing the fight.

Meatball bullshit.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...ting-a-fight-sure-way-to-change-momentum.html

For the record, the Bruins were 38-13-8 in games when Thornton was involved in a fight. Even so, he might have embraced them a little too enthusiastically.

FWIW :shrug:

 

[FirstTimer]

Winning or losing the fight has very, very little with how the momentum shifts - I certainly didn't say otherwise. It is all about what the fight is over and what it stands for. Also, who fights who can spark the momentum. Two big goons in a staged fight does very little.

I'm speaking from personal experience here with the EJ. I don't have statistical proof, just how I have felt in these situations on the ice.

Did your opponent have the same feelings? If so isn't that feeling cancelled out?

 

[HawkWriter]

Did your opponent have the same feelings? If so isn't that feeling cancelled out?

As I said - "I certainly didn't say otherwise. It is all about what the fight is over and what it stands for. Also, who fights who can spark the momentum." So that would be up to the other team on how they felt, what the fight was for, who fought who, etc etc.

You can feel a surge on the bench. When a non-fighter takes one for the team, it can do wonders (kinda like Keith standing up for Mayers). When a smaller guy goes after a bigger guy to protect someone (kinda like Shaw in most cases) the team can rally around it. A lot of factors go into it, but I personally believe that winning the fight has very little to do with it...unless it is a fight like Scott vs. Westgarth where it is a complete and utter ass whooping.

 

[FirstTimer]

As I said - "I certainly didn't say otherwise. It is all about what the fight is over and what it stands for. Also, who fights who can spark the momentum." So that would be up to the other team on how they felt, what the fight was for, who fought who, etc etc.

You can feel a surge on the bench. When a non-fighter takes one for the team, it can do wonders (kinda like Keith standing up for Mayers). When a smaller guy goes after a bigger guy to protect someone (kinda like Shaw in most cases) the team can rally around it. A lot of factors go into it, but I personally believe that winning the fight has very little to do with it...unless it is a fight like Scott vs. Westgarth where it is a complete and utter ass whooping.

Ok so basically you like watching guys pummel each other. Cool. Again, how does this correlate to helping win games? You can't even say what for sure purpose it serves and what team gets what out of it. Does the other team feel less together or do less for them if they don't have their little guy go at it? I would argue that if a teams psyche is that fragile to begin with a fight really wouldn't be needed to step on their throats.

 

[HawkWriter]

Ok so basically you like watching guys pummel each other. Cool. Again, how does this correlate to helping win games? You can't even say what for sure purpose it serves and what team gets what out of it. Does the other team feel less together or do less for them if they don't have their little guy go at it? I would argue that if a teams psyche is that fragile to begin with a fight really wouldn't be needed to step on their throats.

I've said a few times that I'm not a fan of staged fights, so how you can even come close to reaching that conclusion is beyond me.

It helps to win games and serves a purpose because it can shift the momentum, holds players responsible for their actions, it can give a team that extra jump, it can bring a team together, and send a message if needed.

Fighting has a place in hockey.

 

[FirstTimer]

I've said a few times that I'm not a fan of staged fights, so how you can even come close to reaching that conclusion is beyond me.

I didn't know guys pummeling each other was exclusive to staged fights.

It helps to win games and serves a purpose because it can shift the momentum

How?

Prove it.

I've seen numerous teams get into a fight and lose a game.One would think that if fighting was so intrinsic to winning and helping win you'd see more fights in the post season......but you don't. Fighting declines.


http://oilersnation.com/2012/1/11/does-the-momentum-boost-from-fighting-help-teams-win-games

Also, good read.

The fighting helping win BS is fuzzy awful math not really supported by much.

 

[HawkWriter]

Cliff Notes: Hawkwriter played hockey, likes fights

I don't necessarily "like" fights...I just think they serve a purpose and have a place in a physical game of hockey. I've experienced both sides of the coin personally when it comes to fighting.

 

[Jntg4]

I don't necessarily "like" fights...I just think they serve a purpose and have a place in a physical game of hockey. I've experienced both sides of the coin personally when it comes to fighting.

Saad needs to fight more

 

[nwfisch]

Saad needs to fight more

But how does the third string goalie get on for a fight :thinking:

 

[Jntg4]

But how does the third string goalie get on for a fight :thinking:

Illegally leaving the bench... err, um locker room.