The Official T-Mac Thread

[RamiTheBullsFan]

T-Mac didn't have a big role at all with Toronto.

In 2003, they nearly upset the heavily favored Detroit Pistons.

In 2005, they were screwed over in the Dallas series, in my opinion.

In 2007, they lost in 7 to a better Utah team. McGrady was great all series long.

In 2008, they finally had the homecourt advantage (as a 5th seed) but lost Rafer Alston in the first two games and lost both games in Houston. They nearly managed to win both games in SLC, Utah (not an easy task) but lost the series.

 

[Scoot26]

In 2003, they nearly upset the heavily favored Detroit Pistons.

They had a 3-1 series lead.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

They had a 3-1 series lead.

I understand that, but you're looking at it from the pessimistic point of view. 'Glass half full.' I'm pretty sure the Magic were the 8th or 7th seed. That was a series in which T-Mac proved he could dominate a playoff series, and showed that he was hands-down the best player on the court. Gordon Giricek and Pat Garrity or whoever the hell else he had was nothing compared to what the Pistons had.

And also... the year prior, winning 3 games in the 1st round would have meant a series victory.

 

[FirstTimer]

that's not true. He was only favored once to win a 1st round series. He never had the teammates to carry a team anywhere far in the Playoffs.

Just wrong. TMac has been in plenty "toss up" series as a 4 or 5 seed and pissed away a 3-1 lead as well. Not only that but it's a pretty large indictment of TMac himself as a player that he was so "great" yet his teams were struggling to be top seeds in either conference he was in and not able to advance past the first round.

T-Mac didn't have a big role at all with Toronto.

Wrong again. The year they were in the playoffs he was the second leading scorer on the team and averaged over 30 minutes per game.

In 2003, they nearly upset the heavily favored Detroit Pistons.

And blew a 3-1 series lead.

In 2008, they finally had the homecourt advantage (as a 5th seed) but lost Rafer Alston in the first two games and lost both games in Houston. They nearly managed to win both games in SLC, Utah (not an easy task) but lost the series.

Ok, so you've just keep coming up with excuses as to why they failed. Bottom line is even guys like Garnett and Kobe were at least getting past the first round with less talent around them. TMac couldn't even manage that.

It's hilarious to see this site turning into TMac jock riders as soon as it's rumored the Bulls are going to sign him and try and make TMac into some victim of bad playoff luck when at the end of the day TMac was a damn good player but lacked the ability to truly lead a team anywhere in the playoffs at all.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Just wrong. TMac has been in plenty "toss up" series as a 4 or 5 seed and pissed away a 3-1 lead as well. Not only that but it's a pretty large indictment of TMac himself as a player that he was so "great" yet his teams were struggling to be top seeds in either conference he was in and not able to advance past the first round.








Wrong again. The year they were in the playoffs he was the second leading scorer on the team and averaged over 30 minutes per game.




And blew a 3-1 series lead.






Ok, so you've just keep coming up with excuses as to why they failed. Bottom line is even guys like Garnett and Kobe were at least getting past the first round with less talent around them. TMac couldn't even manage that.

It's hilarious to see this site turning into TMac jock riders as soon as it's rumored the Bulls are going to sign him and try and make TMac into some victim of bad playoff luck when at the end of the day TMac was a damn good player but lacked the ability to truly lead a team anywhere in the playoffs at all.

You're an ass.

You don't respond to my points directly.

Instead you talk around them.

By the way, I've said that I'm not necessarily in favor of T-Mac so don't lump me in with a label as a herding Bulls' fan.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lol @ any moron who would try and dismiss just how good McGrady was.

Riddle me this: how many times was a "T-Mac team" favored to get into the second round? (answer: 1, at best)

And what did T-Mac do in all of those series? (answer: prove he was the best player in ALL of them, except with Toronto as practically a teenager)

 

[FirstTimer]

You're an ass.

You don't respond to my points directly.

CCS irony FTW....

Instead you talk around them.

LOL at me "talking around" anything. I directly refuted your idea that TMac was only favored in one series(he was favored in at least two) and wasn't a main cog in Toronto...when he was the #2 player on that playoff team.

Get real dipshit.

Lol @ any moron who would try and dismiss just how good McGrady was.

I never "dismissed" how good anyone was. I called TMac a "damn good" player who wasn't able to lead an average team to the 2nd round of the playoffs..when guys like Kobe and Garnett were. Garnett at least did it once in Minny.

Riddle me this: how many times was a "T-Mac team" favored to get into the second round? (answer: 1, at best)

2001-2002 over the Hornets. 2008 against Utah..then he was one win away from knocking off Detroit...which I would say he was "favored" at that point..then him and his team proceeded to lose 3 straight.

And again...it's not a great point in TMacs favor that he had guys like Yao and Artest around him yet could never break a 5 seed in the West. Hell it was arguable a few of those seasons in Houston who the best player on that team was: Yao or TMac.

And what did T-Mac do in all of those series? (answer: prove he was the best player in ALL of them, except with Toronto as practically a teenager)

He proved he was the best scorer. Not the best leader. And since we are bringing TMac here as a bench player to be a vet leader and impart wisdom on the younger guys what exactly does he have to offer from that perspective?

 

[JCM]

cool it with the name calling guys.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

He proved he was the best scorer. Not the best leader.

exactly

he never could carry a team

he isnt d wade or kobe or lebron(has had much more success in the playoffs than t mac with much less)

he may go far in the playoffs but he will never do it as the #1 option or heck even the #2 option

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

cool it with the name calling guys.

We're not little boys here, dude. I respond to rudeness in-kind.

 

[X]

cool it with the name calling guys.

STUPER MOD!

(wrong guy, but the pic is for the lulz.)

 

[USCChiFan]

Lmao

 

[FirstTimer]

We're not little boys here, dude. I respond to rudeness in-kind.

Yeah because clearly I was the first one to call anyone names in this thread.........

:talktohand:

 

[JCM]

We're not little boys here, dude. I respond to rudeness in-kind.

in no way iam i calling u a little boy. i just find the use profanity words real annoying and irritating. try having a good conversion with out them and im ok.

i understand that sometimes people are going to disagree and get hot headed, but there is no need to use profanity to win over a argument or insult others.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

LOL at me "talking around" anything. I directly refuted your idea that TMac was only favored in one series

False

(he was favored in at least two)

False

and wasn't a main cog in Toronto...when he was the #2 player on that playoff team.

Never said otherwise. Misleading-ness ftw?

Get real dipshit.

:'(

I never "dismissed" how good anyone was. I called TMac a "damn good" player who wasn't able to lead an average team to the 2nd round of the playoffs..when guys like Kobe and Garnett were. Garnett at least did it once in Minny.

If he had a slightly better group of guys, OR was in a less-stacked Conference, he would have.

2001-2002 over the Hornets. 2008 against Utah..then he was one win away from knocking off Detroit...which I would say he was "favored" at that point..then him and his team proceeded to lose 3 straight.

glass-half full. He was playing as an 8th seed with a bunch of scrubs. They weren't favored to win more than 1 game in that series.

And again...it's not a great point in TMacs favor that he had guys like Yao and Artest around him yet could never break a 5 seed in the West. Hell it was arguable a few of those seasons in Houston who the best player on that team was: Yao or TMac.

How many playoff series did T-Mac play with Artest? 0.

And, sure, after the injuries, Yao was the best player on that team after 2007-08. Never said otherwise.

He proved he was the best scorer. Not the best leader. And since we are bringing TMac here as a bench player to be a vet leader and impart wisdom on the younger guys what exactly does he have to offer from that perspective?

Wonderful. He actually was a pretty good leader. Not the best one in the NBA but certainly good enough to lead a team out of the 1st round. He just didn't have enough support around him, and the teams he faced were dominant over his. He was the best player on the court in every series he was in since the year 2003.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

lebron d wade and kobe have led worse teams farther

especially when t mac has good pieces around him in houston for the last couple of years(yes i know about injuries)

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

lebron d wade and kobe have led worse teams farther

especially when t mac has good pieces around him in houston for the last couple of years(yes i know about injuries)

No way... Kobe never has. He pushed the Suns to 7 once before Gasol got there. That was it.

LeBron was in a watered-down Eastern Conference. I'll give you him though. LeBron is obviously better than T-Mac.

Wade? Not really... He pushed ATL to 7 a couple years ago in the first round... that was it? I think? Correct me if I'm wrong.

......If you want to count those last seasons where he was injured and didn't even play in the 09 Playoffs, does that mean I can give him credit for getting to Round 2 that year, as well?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No wait... I think Wade got Miami past the Charlotte Hornets in his 2nd season... but I would say that Lamar Odom and Caron Butler in a crappy East is plenty comparable to having Yao Ming and role players in a heavily-stacked West.

 

[FirstTimer]

False

Tremendous counterargument.....

False

See above.

LOL at you simply saying "false" as if it proves anything in comparison to the series I cited.

Just give up.

Never said otherwise. Misleading-ness ftw?

You said "TMac didn't have a big roll with Toronto at all".

Really?

He was the teams second best player and second leading scorer. I would say that's a pretty damn big role. Orlando seemed to think so as well because right after that season they signed TMac to a huge deal in free agency.

If he had a slightly better group of guys, OR was in a less-stacked Conference, he would have.

TMac wasn't making it out of the first round of the Eastern Conference and was playign on some damn solid Houston teams out West. If TMac was a good as you think he was then having guys like Yao, Battier, Artest, etc around him he would have made it to at LEAST one second round series. Just one. It's not like that's a lot.

glass-half full. He was playing as an 8th seed with a bunch of scrubs. They weren't favored to win more than 1 game in that series.

They were a 7th seed. So you're wrong again and I don't care who was favored before that series at that point..if you are up 3-1 and are that good of a player you close that series out.(Hence why I wasn't a true believe in Kobe until after he won a series in LA as "the man".) He also blew a 3-1 lead with the Lakers.

How many playoff series did T-Mac play with Artest? 0.

And, sure, after the injuries, Yao was the best player on that team after 2007-08. Never said otherwise.

Yao was arguably the best player on that team back in 2004-2005 and onwards.

As for Artest, again: It's not a plus in TMac's favor he was too beat up to play a playoff game with Artest or lead a team with some pretty solid talent anywhere other than a 1st round exit.

Wonderful. He actually was a pretty good leader. Not the best one in the NBA but certainly good enough to lead a team out of the 1st round. He just didn't have enough support around him, and the teams he faced were dominant over his. He was the best player on the court in every series he was in since the year 2003.

Then why did he NEVER do it? Not even once? I mean I'm not even demanding he do it every year or every time. Just ONE time. Once. Never even happened.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Tremendous counterargument.....

Tremendous original argument? Not really.

See above.

LOL at you simply saying "false" as if it proves anything in comparison to the series I cited.

Just give up.


You said "TMac didn't have a big roll with Toronto at all".

Really?

He was the teams second best player and second leading scorer. I would say that's a pretty damn big role. Orlando seemed to think so as well because right after that season they signed TMac to a huge deal in free agency.

That's wonderful. What I meant by that was he was young and not the leader of the team. That hardly qualifies to me as having a major part of the blame if his team loses.

TMac wasn't making it out of the first round of the Eastern Conference and was playign on some damn solid Houston teams out West. If TMac was a good as you think he was then having guys like Yao, Battier, Artest, etc around him he would have made it to at LEAST one second round series. Just one. It's not like that's a lot.

He didn't have Artest around him at all. Only for a few games in the 2008-09 season when Tracy actually played. That was it.

They were a 7th seed. So you're wrong again and I don't care who was favored before that series at that point..if you are up 3-1 and are that good of a player you close that series out.

Detroit played horrible in those first 4 games. I think that was the year before they got Ben and Rasheed Wallace but they had a young Hamilton, Billups, and Prince.

And... you are wrong.

ORL was 8th. DET was 1st.

Yao was arguably the best player on that team back in 2004-2005 and onwards.

Good luck making that argument.

As for Artest, again: It's not a plus in TMac's favor he was too beat up to play a playoff game with Artest or lead a team with some pretty solid talent anywhere other than a 1st round exit.


Then why did he NEVER do it? Not even once? I mean I'm not even demanding he do it every year or every time. Just ONE time. Once. Never even happened.

So... you are counting 2009... despite the injury... and using it against T-Mac... yet not counting T-Mac as "getting out of the first round" that year...

Unfair a lil bit....?

I find it amusing that you bring up his days in Toronto, and use them in reference to his "leadership." Pretty funny stuff.