The Pee Video

[TSD]

Republican Allen West needs to google Shugart and Gordon or any of the other incidents if he doesn't think there was outrage over those acts. I recall a lot of reaction towards those events esp the Shugart and Gordon incidents. A LOT!!!



Do modern day politicians understand what the media is in todays world? It's not just NBC news or CNN anymore.



And yes war is hell. No one would ever think otherwise (accept my grandfather who loved WW2)..but actions such as this just make the fires of hell that much hotter.

yeah and thats pretty much all we can do about it is be "outraged" when some right wing militant captures some soldier or civilian humiliates them and lops their head off and drags their body through the streets.



It doesn't matter if "we dont do it" they will still do it. People get outraged over this crap because they think somehow the Islamic militants will say, "oh I guess they don't do this stuff so we'll stop". They have no respect for us, we are lower than insects, we are enemies of God and defilers of their religion.



They know how weak the western publics stomache is, when it comes to this stuff alot of peoples first reaction is appeasement to get them to stop, but they wont stop. Alot of people say "well if we didnt this, then they wouldnt that" giving them excuses for their behavior. Where are the excuses for our fighting peoples behavior? Oh when it comes to our own, they obviously have suffered no mental anguish that drove them to this road.



The thing is we can't do a goddamn thing about it when then enemy does this stuff other than "be outraged", their guys get a damn parade for doing this shit. A couple our our guys do something and the enemy has the satisfaction of knowing were probably going to ruin the rest of their lives for it.



We are such bleeding hearts when it comes to war. All this honor and geneva convention shit would fly right out the window if we were actually fighting an enemy that could stand toe to toe with us militarily. When your very survival as a nation and way of life is at risk, there are no rules, win at any cost, be it with fear tactics by video taping the deaths of foreign troops in a horrific manner or terrorism.





So no its war, I hate it when they do it because there is no punishment for them, but I understand the circumstances that might drive them to that end, and they wont stop no matter what we do. Appeasement is not an option and does not work. Ask Europe how appeasing hitler worked out. When your enemy has no respect for you and would love nothing more than to wipe you off the face of the earth, nothing we can do can endear ourselves to them.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

+1

 

[the canadian dream]

Well who implants these feelings and who is at fault for turning us into bleeding harts? Is it the propoganda that is shoved in our faces every minute by the war machine and media? You know the ongoing footage of mothers crying, the widowed wife and mother crying, the body counts on the nightly news, the hollywood war stories packaged all nicely with sad violen music and corny dialogue?



It's not all the enemy who knows how to play into our heads and our hearts. It's also ourselves. We exploit war and death like it's a fashion show in the west just as bad as anyone else..... if not worse. We are bleeding harts because it's profitable and it's easier to recruit when there are fairy tales and good fiction writters.



It's hard to speak about war on this boards because 80% of you guys have served and my intentions are not to offend or downplay that service. I will admit to a level of naivety as a Canadian kid who's country really doesn't play the historical, cultural and heritage card of war to the levels that you do in America. Not because there have never been any impactual wars that have shaped us. Just not as many as you guys. But it's an interesting seeing how far that war propoganda can be pushed in the states..and actually very frightening at times. When I see cheap porceline plates being sold on the shopping network with what is clear war propoganda ment to tug at ones hart strings it's hard not to see how exploited people and idiolisms get.



I don't even know what i am trying to say. I don't even know why you would want to piss on a dead body. I am sure there are ways to contract some strange new virus by doing that.

 

[The Mule]

People get outraged over this crap because they think somehow the Islamic militants will say, "oh I guess they don't do this stuff so we'll stop".



Um. No. Nobody thinks this. No one with even half a brain is outraged and thinks that Islamic militants will stop their actions because American soldiers aren't doing degrading shit too. And if people do think this, then I would suggest a transfer of funds from the military to education because learning critical thinking is pretty important. Yeah. I said it. Even bleeding hearts can be assholes. I'm a huge asshole.



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Alot of people say "well if we didnt this, then they wouldnt that" giving them excuses for their behavior. Where are the excuses for our fighting peoples behavior? Oh when it comes to our own, they obviously have suffered no mental anguish that drove them to this road.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Most people are very sympathetic to the mental anguish of soldiers. As well the word "excuse" means to apologize for or remove blame, which means that the actions were something to apologize for or that people would not want to be blamed for. Excuses are not useful. Understanding what the **** these soldiers are going through is important. Not making excuses for them. [/font]



So no its war, I hate it when they do it because there is no punishment for them, but I understand the circumstances that might drive them to that end, and they wont stop no matter what we do.



Yes. I agree. The circumstances might drive them to this. For sure. That's part of what sucks about this scenario.



And TCD is right. Like everything else a huge part of modern war is all about marketing. It's how it's packaged and sold to people, whether to recruit soldiers or inform civilians. And yes, for the most part that's what people who have not served see, are fed, are exposed to. To many people the realities of war remain a mystery and then video tapes and photos of these incidents become a part of the story too. Of course these incidents are not the be-all, end-all, only truism of war. They are a part of it.



Ok. I guess the liberal, white, Canadian girl is done here.

 

[winos5]

At least they didn't get it all over the toilet seat. Think they washed their hands when they were done?

 

[The Mule]

At least they didn't get it all over the toilet seat. Think they washed their hands when they were done?

Maybe they had some moist toilettes.

 

[TSD]

Well who implants these feelings and who is at fault for turning us into bleeding harts? Is it the propoganda that is shoved in our faces every minute by the war machine and media? You know the ongoing footage of mothers crying, the widowed wife and mother crying, the body counts on the nightly news, the hollywood war stories packaged all nicely with sad violen music and corny dialogue?



It's not all the enemy who knows how to play into our heads and our hearts. It's also ourselves. We exploit war and death like it's a fashion show in the west just as bad as anyone else..... if not worse. We are bleeding harts because it's profitable and it's easier to recruit when there are fairy tales and good fiction writters.



It's hard to speak about war on this boards because 80% of you guys have served and my intentions are not to offend or downplay that service. I will admit to a level of naivety as a Canadian kid who's country really doesn't play the historical, cultural and heritage card of war to the levels that you do in America. Not because there have never been any impactual wars that have shaped us. Just not as many as you guys. But it's an interesting seeing how far that war propoganda can be pushed in the states..and actually very frightening at times. When I see cheap porceline plates being sold on the shopping network with what is clear war propoganda ment to tug at ones hart strings it's hard not to see how exploited people and idiolisms get.



I don't even know what i am trying to say. I don't even know why you would want to piss on a dead body. I am sure there are ways to contract some strange new virus by doing that.

I am not implying I like war. I am just saying if you go to war, there is no room for rules. I mean think about this, were already killing people, WTF is the point of rules after that?



and to your bolded, If you hate someone with the very fabric of your being, you might piss on their corpse. Thats why I previously used the example of if you got 20 minutes alone to do whatever you wanted to someone who raped tortured and killed your daughter or something. When one of your battle buddies , a guy you were laughing with yesterday bullshitting talking about what you are going to do when you get home, got his body blown in half by an IED. and you've been suffering the un ending anxiety of people trying to kill you on a daily basis and now you've got a little chance for some sort of satisfaction, albeit it pissing on some rotting corpse.



Servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan, statistically have spent more time in combat during a given deployment than servicemen from any other american war.



A typical Infantryman in Iraq in 2005 would see more combat in one year than a WW2 vet over the length of american involvement from 41-45. Heres a little tidbit as to their mental state as well. in 2010 more American servicemen and veterans KILLED THEMSELVES than died in combat.

 

[klemmer]

and to your bolded, If you hate someone with the very fabric of your being, you might piss on their corpse.

Guess I must not hate Newt then, because I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire in my front room.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

So nobody wants to tell me why pissing on them after you put a hole or three through their chest is so bad? These kids were idiots for filming whatever they did but I don't care if they took out pocket knives and diced the bodies into little steak-like pieces, they are DEAD. Who killed them? I'm guessing the same guys who are pissing on them. What's worse? Killing them or pissing on them? No wonder words hurt some people so badly. Everyone is a thin skinned little pussy nowadays.

 

[klemmer]

So nobody wants to tell me why pissing on them after you put a hole or three through their chest is so bad? These kids were idiots for filming whatever they did but I don't care if they took out pocket knives and diced the bodies into little steak-like pieces, they are DEAD. Who killed them? I'm guessing the same guys who are pissing on them. What's worse? Killing them or pissing on them? No wonder words hurt some people so badly. Everyone is a thin skinned little pussy nowadays.

Looking at it through my eyes, war is not a pretty thing. Shit happens that we never hear about. I'm sure this isn't the first time something like this has happened in war.



What disgusts me most of all is that by documenting their actions, these jagoffs chose to brag about it.

 

[the canadian dream]

I already stated as a militant move i think its bad.



As a humanitary action yah i guess it is all fair in love and war. its too bad. War is shity as is..adding more shit to the pile just kinda sucks for those soldiers involved. But i get it..trust me i get it.

 

[the canadian dream]

Ps. I will play the card here. Just wondering what sort of mental residue these sort of actions will have on the soldiers once they come home and reintroduce themselves into western society and culture. These guys and gals see enough rough shit...why would they want to add to it themselves?



Really are some Vietnam parallels that will rear their ugly heads.



Just throwing that out there. And playing that card.



And no one has really answered my question regarding American soldiers being pissed on and the true reaction. Its sort of being glosed over and spun. If one doesn't or shouldn't care what happens to dead American bodies in war just hone up and say it. It doesn't make anyone anti American or heartless. It just opens up the door to reality that war is gruesome and soldiers aren't only sent into action to kill and protect but also to die. In a lot of cases they are pawns. Sucks to say that..but its true isn't it?

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Looking at it through my eyes, war is not a pretty thing. Shit happens that we never hear about. I'm sure this isn't the first time something like this has happened in war.



What disgusts me most of all is that by documenting their actions, these jagoffs chose to brag about it.

Yes, I agree, and have stated that is just plain stupid.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

TCD I thought I answered you, sorry. No, I wouldn't give a damn if the bodies were pissed on after they were shot, beheaded, burned, hung out to rot, etc. To me, it is a lifeless body at that point. The soul is gone.

 

[the canadian dream]

And that's pure honesty jax. Not enough of that. Ill admit also when a Canadian soldier comes home in a body bag i really don't shed tears over it. Not sure how i can or why i should? I tend to have more sympathy for those who survive and have to deal with the night terrors every time they close their eye s.

 

[klemmer]

Yes, I agree, and have stated that is just plain stupid.

Yep. You asked a good question, and I felt it deserved an answer from my viewpoint.

 

[MassHavoc]

just a random question with no real purpose other than curious, what are the reactions if they were still alive?

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Just me I guess, but I don't see the "horror" of being pissed on, spit on...... To each his own I guess. I don't think spitting on someone is the same as punching them in the fucking face. I understand the degradation attempt in the meaning, but as I have stated in other threads about other topics, take the "hurtful message" out of the word or the action and it is just that.....a word or action. Doesn't mean you won't get your ass beat, but it sure as hell isn't going to hurt my feelings.



These types of things are done in order to elicit a certain response. Don't give someone the satisfaction of the expected response and maybe they will eventually learn that it is just a word or action that really doesn't have the meaning it used to have.

 

[MassHavoc]

Some guys and gals pay good money to be pissed on. Too soon?

 

[winos5]

Ps. I will play the card here. Just wondering what sort of mental residue these sort of actions will have on the soldiers once they come home and reintroduce themselves into western society and culture. These guys and gals see enough rough shit...why would they want to add to it themselves?



Really are some Vietnam parallels that will rear their ugly heads.



Just throwing that out there. And playing that card.



And no one has really answered my question regarding American soldiers being pissed on and the true reaction. Its sort of being glosed over and spun. If one doesn't or shouldn't care what happens to dead American bodies in war just hone up and say it. It doesn't make anyone anti American or heartless. It just opens up the door to reality that war is gruesome and soldiers aren't only sent into action to kill and protect but also to die. In a lot of cases they are pawns. Sucks to say that..but its true isn't it?

I think thats pretty much hammer on nail. Vets suffering from PTSD is not always about what they saw as much as it is about what they did.