The Pee Video

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan, statistically have spent more time in combat during a given deployment than servicemen from any other american war.



A typical Infantryman in Iraq in 2005 would see more combat in one year than a WW2 vet over the length of american involvement from 41-45. Heres a little tidbit as to their mental state as well. in 2010 more American servicemen and veterans KILLED THEMSELVES than died in combat.

To put that in perspective there are far less "infantrymen" than there was then, so by percentage that is true. Keep in mind that roughly the same amount of servicemen had died on d-day than in the whole of Iraq.



The major reason for that, and the delayed deaths (more on that in my next post), is the ability to swiftly remove the person from the battlefield and vastly improved medical.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I think thats pretty much hammer on nail. Vets suffering from PTSD is not always about what they saw as much as it is about what they did.

First off, sorry for the impending HF50 response, but please read the whole of my response before responding. I have major issues with what these guys did, and it cannot be easily be brushed off as many here have been posting.





Yesterday was the 5th anniversary of my step brother's delayed death. He had a massive case of PTSD and the VA in his state turned him down several times as they did not have space...The roots of his PTSD came from both what he saw on the battle field and what he did. When trying to help him, along with my siblings, we heard many of those stories (I am a firm believer in the "tell your story until your story has been told" therapy). The stories of post death mutilation were rampant and horrible. He admitted to shitting in the mouths of some of the dead and literally blasting the bodies to pieces.



What ultimately drove him over the edge was when several of his longtime fieldmates were killed and mutilated to the point where the families got nothing in the terms of remains. He saw how torn the family members and friends were over the fact that they could have had a final with the body, but were denied by the extended actions of others. This just ate at him as he begun to think about what he did to others and their families. The core of what he was taught (life and military), was shattered. Hard. His humanity kicked in (and yes it does exist), and his remorse kept nipping at him. Add in all of the other experienced factors and there was no turning back. No matter how hard we tried.





Since his death many in my family have become active in assisting those with PTSD. Things like being an unjudging ear at any time of the day, bringing them off the ledge, etc. It is hard ass shit to do for many reasons. Two common things come into play, what they saw and what they did. The what they did that eats them the most is the same as what happened to my step brother. A simple at the moment act that seems benign...but it is far from that. They all begin to realize that Hollywood is just that, even with a simple action.

Those guys are the hardest to bring back....and the most that we lose.





Why is it hard to shake? Beyond the human issues discipline and honor always come into play after the fact. Interestingly enough, throughout military history returning the dead of war has usually been considered a human and honorable. Even at it's worse, WWI had no bullet days where both sides collected bodies. This was not an occasional thing either, and again, history shows other stories from other cultures. Sure there are stories of this not being true (I am a decedent of Vlad Tepe), but those are expectations.



Why is this? I have come to believe that it comes to the mentality of giving the family of the soldier a closure as much as possible. Is it odd, or is it human emotion? I believe it is the emotions of the innocent, which is who you are not supposed to be fighting. This is why I was throwing out the question what if it happened to a relative of yours. The situation does change as much as we try to brazenly thing otherwise.







From my own experiences with Central and South America, if we took a body down we moved on to the next target. When the action was over and if we were victorious, we bagged the dead and dropped them off at the nearest town or brought them back with us to be turned over in other means. Even on the day that I got grazed, 5 others injured, and 3 we killed in a tough fight. None of us even though about doing anything other than what we were taught, and what the Geneva Convention dictates. Never. They were combatants, but still humans.





In the end we are all human and have emotions. Emotions that can go either way, but emotions that drive not just our decisions but how we perceive our actions. As human we also have remorse, a remorse that eats. Also as humans, we do in fact care about our actions and both internal and external perception. Some of these actions are easy to shake, others will stick with us for the rest of our lives. Some are just very hard to mitigate in the mind....



So yea, I will gladly be called a pussy for my opinion on this matter and wear that badge proudly. Looking at anything from 30,000 ft is not the same as up close.

 

[winos5]

First off, sorry for the impending HF50 response, but please read the whole of my response before responding. I have major issues with what these guys did, and it cannot be easily be brushed off as many here have been posting.





Yesterday was the 5th anniversary of my step brother's delayed death. He had a massive case of PTSD and the VA in his state turned him down several times as they did not have space...The roots of his PTSD came from both what he saw on the battle field and what he did. When trying to help him, along with my siblings, we heard many of those stories (I am a firm believer in the "tell your story until your story has been told" therapy). The stories of post death mutilation were rampant and horrible. He admitted to shitting in the mouths of some of the dead and literally blasting the bodies to pieces.



What ultimately drove him over the edge was when several of his longtime fieldmates were killed and mutilated to the point where the families got nothing in the terms of remains. He saw how torn the family members and friends were over the fact that they could have had a final with the body, but were denied by the extended actions of others. This just ate at him as he begun to think about what he did to others and their families. The core of what he was taught (life and military), was shattered. Hard. His humanity kicked in (and yes it does exist), and his remorse kept nipping at him. Add in all of the other experienced factors and there was no turning back. No matter how hard we tried.





Since his death many in my family have become active in assisting those with PTSD. Things like being an unjudging ear at any time of the day, bringing them off the ledge, etc. It is hard ass shit to do for many reasons. Two common things come into play, what they saw and what they did. The what they did that eats them the most is the same as what happened to my step brother. A simple at the moment act that seems benign...but it is far from that. They all begin to realize that Hollywood is just that, even with a simple action.

Those guys are the hardest to bring back....and the most that we lose.





Why is it hard to shake? Beyond the human issues discipline and honor always come into play after the fact. Interestingly enough, throughout military history returning the dead of war has usually been considered a human and honorable. Even at it's worse, WWI had no bullet days where both sides collected bodies. This was not an occasional thing either, and again, history shows other stories from other cultures. Sure there are stories of this not being true (I am a decedent of Vlad Tepe), but those are expectations.



Why is this? I have come to believe that it comes to the mentality of giving the family of the soldier a closure as much as possible. Is it odd, or is it human emotion? I believe it is the emotions of the innocent, which is who you are not supposed to be fighting. This is why I was throwing out the question what if it happened to a relative of yours. The situation does change as much as we try to brazenly thing otherwise.







From my own experiences with Central and South America, if we took a body down we moved on to the next target. When the action was over and if we were victorious, we bagged the dead and dropped them off at the nearest town or brought them back with us to be turned over in other means. Even on the day that I got grazed, 5 others injured, and 3 we killed in a tough fight. None of us even though about doing anything other than what we were taught, and what the Geneva Convention dictates. Never. They were combatants, but still humans.





In the end we are all human and have emotions. Emotions that can go either way, but emotions that drive not just our decisions but how we perceive our actions. As human we also have remorse, a remorse that eats. Also as humans, we do in fact care about our actions and both internal and external perception. Some of these actions are easy to shake, others will stick with us for the rest of our lives. Some are just very hard to mitigate in the mind....



So yea, I will gladly be called a pussy for my opinion on this matter and wear that badge proudly. Looking at anything from 30,000 ft is not the same as up close.

You're no pussy. I couldn't agree with you more. It wasn't my intent to trivialize the event, PTSD or the repercussions and if the sum of my posts gave that impression, I apoligise.



I tried to be brief with my PTSD point and you expanded on it. That is exactly what I meant.

 

[Tater]

Great post Biscuit.

 

[jakobeast]

Biscuit has the right idea. I don't mean to come of callous or whatever, and understand that I have never been in combat, let alone a foriegn, unfriendly country. My statements were coming from a place of not knowing, and empathy. Empathy for the Military men and women of this country, and what they have to deal with.



I don't excuse those Marines for what they did. Video or not, it wasn't right. And from what I hear, that was probably not the worst thing that was done to those dead.



What it seems like, and others have said it in this thread prrevious, is that there was poor management of these guys. If Biscuit and his unit buddies were taught to respect the dead, then everyone else in the military could be taught that as well.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Thanks for the post Biscuit. Lots of things I didn't know, and learned from you. BTW, for the record, the pussies are the people I said let words bother them "Mommy, so and so called me a ____________." I, too, have lived my life with someone who has been remorseful for deeds done in the past. What these people don't realize is the fact that while they are punishing themselves for the actions, they are also punishing everyone around them.

 

[the canadian dream]

Fantastic post Biccuit. Thanks for sharing all of that with us.