The Sox Stove Is Broken: Offseason Discussion

[MRubio52]

That would be Andrew McCutchen and the awesomeness that was the Pittsburgh Pirates lineup.

That's right Dabs!

1 C Rod Barajas .206 .283 .343 .625
2 1B Casey McGehee .230 .297 .377 .674
3 2B Neil Walker# .280 .342 .426 .768
4 SS Clint Barmes .229 .272 .321 .593
5 3B Pedro Alvarez* .244 .317 .467 .784
6 LF Alex Presley* .237 .279 .405 .683
7 CF Andrew McCutchen .327 .400 .553 .953
8 RF Jose Tabata .243 .315 .348 .664

That qualifies as a player putting up extremely good numbers despite being on a team full of meh and suck.

 

[Rice Cube]

That would be Andrew McCutchen and the awesomeness that was the Pittsburgh Pirates lineup.

Ah yes. David Wright also had a nice slash line but not nearly that good.

 

[brett05]

That's right Dabs!

1 C Rod Barajas .206 .283 .343 .625
2 1B Casey McGehee .230 .297 .377 .674
3 2B Neil Walker# .280 .342 .426 .768
4 SS Clint Barmes .229 .272 .321 .593
5 3B Pedro Alvarez* .244 .317 .467 .784
6 LF Alex Presley* .237 .279 .405 .683
7 CF Andrew McCutchen .327 .400 .553 .953
8 RF Jose Tabata .243 .315 .348 .664

That qualifies as a player putting up extremely good numbers despite being on a team full of meh and suck.

And if he was on the Angels last year his numbers would have been better

 

[Rice Cube]

And if he was on the Angels last year his numbers would have been better

The difference in competition between the NL and AL, not to mention between the NL Central and AL West, means that is not a guarantee.

 

[MRubio52]

And if he was on the Angels last year his numbers would have been better

Maybe! But that wasn't the question, the question was, essentially, show me a player that put up good numbers without protection. It happens. Trout would've had a great year in Pitt too.

Don't belittle the talent, it's real.

 

[dabynsky]

And if he was on the Angels last year his numbers would have been better

But that is not what you asked. You asked for a player that was put up numbers like Trout on a bad lineup. That is what Rubio has found for you already. Add that to the list of evidence we have that shows that good hitters are good hitters, and all we have to counter is opinion that protection somehow magically greatly increases players numbers.

 

[brett05]

How about we chalk this up to

"Brett has no idea what he is talking about"
"Brett is a troll"
"Brett has never made a good post"
"Brett always is clueless in debates"
Etc etc etc

Quite frankly it's only an opinion that is backed by the players but still just an opinion

 

[Rice Cube]

How about we chalk this up to

"Brett has no idea what he is talking about"
"Brett is a troll"
"Brett has never made a good post"
"Brett always is clueless in debates"
Etc etc etc

Quite frankly it's only an opinion that is backed by the players but still just an opinion

The only one who actually said this is you. Think of this as more of an educational experience than an ass-kicking

 

[dabynsky]

How about we chalk this up to

"Brett has no idea what he is talking about"
"Brett is a troll"
"Brett has never made a good post"
"Brett always is clueless in debates"
Etc etc etc

Quite frankly it's only an opinion that is backed by the players but still just an opinion

Players often do know a lot about the game, but they are not perfect at describing what causes things to happen in the game. A lot of what players and managers think and believe can be back up with evidence, but unfortunately there isn't anything that points to protection. And this makes sense when you think about the level of pitchers we have here at the big league level. To get to this level they need to be able to spot more than a fastball consistently, and so while hitters with protection might get a few more pitches in the zone. Pitchers aren't just going to groove fastballs to good hitters because Albert Pujols is behind them. Honestly look at the St. Louis Cardinals. They didn't miss a beat on offense last year without Pujols.

 

[brett05]

The only one who actually said this is you.

In this thread? Yes. On this site? Seriously you need to stop it

 

[Rice Cube]

In this thread? Yes. On this site? Seriously you need to stop it

I think you just need to stop calling attention to yourself as a victim. The guys were discussing this rather civilly so I don't think you need to be so defensive.

 

[brett05]

What victim? I'm just bowing out of a conversation where both Rubio and dabs have put words in my mouth imo

 

[brett05]

Well the last draft the first three players taken were position players and 18 out of 31 1st rounders were position players. I think GMs value talent, which takes us to the case of Sale vs. Trout. Your contention is that GMs would prefer the older, less years of cost control player, that is coming off a fantastic first season of starting to a 21 year old runner up for the MVP?

Btw. Where did Sale finish in the Cy Young?

 

[dabynsky]

Btw. Where did Sale finish in the Cy Young?

6th...

 

[brett05]

6th...

Yes. Give me the pitcher

 

[dabynsky]

Yes. Give me the pitcher

I will take the younger and more years of cost control .300 hitter with 30 HRs and 50 steals.

 

[brett05]

My point is most non fans won't

 

[dabynsky]

My point is most non fans won't

And you have nothing to back up your point. Everything raised has been refuted apart from a nebulous claim that most GMs wouldn't make that trade. I would love to see what 30 GMs would say between having the definition of a five tool palyer that is 21 years old and a very good 23 year old starting pitcher.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Still trying to figure out why dabs still has a sig quote of me.

 

[dabynsky]

Still trying to figure out why dabs still has a sig quote of me.

Because it is funny that you care, and I am too lazy to change it...