The Ultimate " So Its 2016 Now" Thread

[KBisBack!]

You lack both reading comprehension and intelligence, head over to PSD, you'll fit right in.

I will take that as you have none of the actual facts to support your statements that I made a simple request for.

 

[Jntg4]

What a great way to foster discussion.


Just because he doesn't buy into Theo's plan doesn't make him an idiot. I think there are valid questions at this point to be raised and asked about the plan.

I don't care of he buys into it or not, but the ideas he is presenting are almost d3a style bad, actually they are just that. Go make friends with your salami clan now.

 

[nickofypres]

And like Dews says, though I won't agree that Theo had 0% to do with those titles, Theo wasn't the motor that drove the Red Sox. An improbable 3-0 series comeback when they were down to their last strike against the Yankees was a big reason they won the WS. So let's not kid ourselves by saying Theo built the best team to win that year like they were the 27 Yankees.

And in 07 that team also was down 3-1 to the Cleveland Indians of all teams in the ALCS.

Sure they got to the dance and won it, but are 3-0 and 3-1 comebacks something I want this organization (especially the Cubs) to depend on?

:clap:

Fisch is now my new guy.

 

[KBisBack!]

But, Fisch, haven't you ever heard of 2004!!!1 and 2007!!!1

Sure.

But Theo also inherited an extremely talented organization that was built up by Dan Duquette, whom those from the CBS Board know is the person I preferred over Epstein to be hired by the Cubs.

Baltimore made the playoffs last year and the Cubs lost 101 games, but what do I know.

He absolutely did not build the Sox up from nothing like the Cubs are now to World Series Champions.

He took over a Red Sox team that had come off of 5 straight winnings seasons with 3 of those seasons being 90+ win seasons.

The team already had Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon, Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield among others. The farm system already included Kevin Youkilis and John Lester as well as Hanley Ramirez, which netted the team Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell as well as enough prospects to land Curt Schilling from Arizona.

He also took over the team at a time that the owner, John Henry, was will to spend and do whatever it took to win.

That is NOTHING at all like the situation with the Cubs.

But maybe seeing as you are a Sox fan your quote was meant with sarcasm and I am not familiar enough with your style to have picked up on it.

 

[KBisBack!]

I don't care of he buys into it or not, but the ideas he is presenting are almost d3a style bad, actually they are just that. Go make friends with your salami clan now.

So the idea of fielding a competitive major league team while building up the farm system is bad??

Really??

You might want to let about 25 or so of the major league teams know that then. I am sure they would be pleased to uncover your secret and I am sure will immediately request your resume to take over running their franchise.

 

[nickofypres]

Sure.

But Theo also inherited an extremely talented organization that was built up by Dan Duquette, whom those from the CBS Board know is the person I preferred over Epstein to be hired by the Cubs.

Baltimore made the playoffs last year and the Cubs lost 101 games, but what do I know.

He absolutely did not build the Sox up from nothing like the Cubs are now to World Series Champions.

He took over a Red Sox team that had come off of 5 straight winnings seasons with 3 of those seasons being 90+ win seasons.

The team already had Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon, Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield among others. The farm system already included Kevin Youkilis and John Lester as well as Hanley Ramirez, which netted the team Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell as well as enough prospects to land Curt Schilling from Arizona.

He also took over the team at a time that the owner, John Henry, was will to spend and do whatever it took to win.

That is NOTHING at all like the situation with the Cubs.

But maybe seeing as you are a Sox fan your quote was meant with sarcasm and I am not familiar enough with your style to have picked up on it.

Great post, man. Agreed on all points.

Lulz, yeah, my (original) comment was sarcastic.

 

[Jntg4]

So the idea of fielding a competitive major league team while building up the farm system is bad??

Really??

You might want to let about 25 or so of the major league teams know that then. I am sure they would be pleased to uncover your secret and I am sure will immediately request your resume to take over running their franchise.

No, it's not that. What was available was not enough to make this team a contender, plain and simple.

 

[nwfisch]

Because being down in a series before coming hack indicates whether or not the team was good or deserved to win? Go back to trolling.

Good/great teams don't fall within a game of elimination. Not only that, the guys Theo put together in 2011 had a monumental collapse.

 

[nwfisch]

And FWIW I think Theo is a top 10 GM in the game, and that is an improvement above Hendry. Problem is, only 6 teams make the dance every year.

 

[DewsSox79]

You say it is a fact that the team is in the lower half of the league in TV revenue.

Please provide your source for this fact.

I have seen that when you include the revenue from WGN, the team is in the top 10 in TV revenue. On the local TV revenue, WGN is NOT including because they are considered a Superstation, so their revenue is not included in the local TV revenue. But of course you knew that already I am sure.




Most of that article is more opinion with very little fact to support it. The only fact provided was that Darvish's posting was about a half million more than Dice-K. Whoopie!!!

But I guess I am supposed to accept some guy named Brett's opinion because it is posted on a Fan site?? No thanks.





Right, cause that is exactly what I said, right? No?? That wasn't remotely what I said?? Oh ok, thought so.

You have bought a PR campaign that has led you to believe that cutting $45M from the major league payroll was needed to pay for a $7M complex in DR and MAYBE a couple extra million in player development??

And you want to accuse others other being that stupid?? Wow.



Yes they are. You are showing a shining example of it.





And the $18M spent of Volstad sure was much better wasn't it??



There were many options that were better than the ones brought in. Period.



Nope.

Haven't missed that point at all. In fact the organization IGNORING the major league level is the ENTIRE point.

The Cubs have the resources to field a quality major league at the same time as developing the minor league system. They can do BOTH at the same time.

It is not a complicated idea, but seems to fall well outside of your intelligence level.

There shouldn't have to be a choice between the two. The goal should be to do BOTH things at the same time.

Your plan has the team absolutely sucking for years with the HOPE that the minor league system can develop enough players who reach their peak at the same time and only then add FA.

Small market teams like the Pirates and Royals have been trying this plan for decades now, without success. But this is exact what you think the smart plan is?? Um ok.


Oh boy, Yippie!!! Top 100 prospects!!!! Joy oh Joy.

You seem to miss the goal of major league baseball.

It is to win the most games at the major league level, not have the most Top 100 prospects. Having the most top 100 prospects is not an automatic path to winning the most games either.

The Royals a few years ago had the most top 100 prospects at the same time. How has that worked out for them??

There has not one of those players who have turned into quality major league players yet.

Hosmer still has major questions. Moustakas has struggled big time and there is talk about sending him back down. Most of the others haven't even made it.

But somehow ALL of the Cubs prospects will succeed and become All Stars??

Ok.

Keep buying those lottery tickets as your retirement plan.

Reading thru all of this and this paragraph out of everything really is key. The issue with Cubs fans now is quite simple. The fans are buying into this philosophy like it will indeed bring the team to a championship....hell you need to get to .500 first. The Royals are a prime example as he has stated. Whoooopie! Top spects in the top 100! What some of the fans are doing is :fap: to theo and becoming delusional that ALL these specs are going to pan out. There is a shit load of what ifs with spects. Advice for cubs fans is to take it day by day.

people need to stop with the soler etc etc spects are awesome and stuffz......talk about them when they are up in the MLB level producing. All they are right now are unknowns.

 

[DewsSox79]

And FWIW I think Theo is a top 10 GM in the game, and that is an improvement above Hendry. Problem is, only 6 teams make the dance every year.

how so? how is he a top 10 GM? Please tell me. Do I need to break it down again?

1) He inherited a 90 win team in Boston

2) He had unlimited spending ( See Cheringtons Theo cleanup last year with the deals to LA)

3) Sure he hit on ells and middlebrooks.....great! he also spent money on some pretty bad players!

Lets see him win a few divisions with this franchise than you can call him a top 10. Any GM can do what he did in Boston, that is fact.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Again, lets pretend to ignore the shit contracts he handed out in Boston.

Theo is the man! :fap:

 

[KBisBack!]

No, it's not that. What was available was not enough to make this team a contender, plain and simple.

Actually that is not accurate or plain and simple.

It is an opinion that you wish to pass along as a fact because it supports your agenda that Theo and what is going on with the team currently is beyond questioning.

Did anyone think before last year that adding Jason Hammel, Wei-Yin Chen and several bullpen pieces would make Baltimore a contender?

Nope.

But that doesn't mean they simple ignored the major league team and didn't even attempt to make it better. One thing you are guaranteed is that if you dont even try, you will not succeed.

And even if they feel short of being a contender, losing less than 100 games is still better than losing 100 games.

There is zero reason that a team with the resources the Cubs have should ever throw away a season in order to improve the farm system or that having a top 5 draft pick is a reasonable return for a 100 loss season or should not make every attempt possible to field the best team they can every season.

If you really think the last two years are the best possible teams the Cubs could have fielded, well there is not much anyone can say to educate you.

 

[nwfisch]

how so? how is he a top 10 GM? Please tell me. Do I need to break it down again?

1) He inherited a 90 win team in Boston

2) He had unlimited spending ( See Cheringtons Theo cleanup last year with the deals to LA)

3) Sure he hit on ells and middlebrooks.....great! he also spent money on some pretty bad players!

Lets see him win a few divisions with this franchise than you can call him a top 10. Any GM can do what he did in Boston, that is fact.

So by this logic, we can't judge anyone based on what they did with prior teams?

I guess my question is where would you put Theo?

For sake of argument here's my top 15 of guys I think you could make an argument are better than Theo.
1. Cashman
2. Cherrington
3. Blue Jays GM
4. Angels GM
5. Tigers GM
6. Phillies GM
7. Cardinals GM
8. Reds GM
9. Brewers GM
10. Dodgers GM
11. Giants GM
12. Diamondbacks GM
13. Braves GM.
14. Friedman on the Rays.
15. Rick Hahn
The bolded guys I have on the list for sake of argument, because I think the case can be made that Theo is better than them. These guys in bold have too many unknowns, or things that detract from being a successful GM.

There are many aspects that go into building a successful baseball team, and one of those is having a committed owner that is willing to spend money. In order for Theo to complete his plan, he needs to get a FA somewhere along the line that is a key contributor. It can come in different positions, contract length etc. My belief is Tom Ricketts is not that owner who will be willing to spend big bucks on a FA. I will eat crow the day he spends big and gets a key piece to the puzzle. E. Jackson is a nice piece, but I doubt he'll be around when the Cubs are ready to compete in 2016.

 

[nwfisch]

Actually that is not accurate or plain and simple.

It is an opinion that you wish to pass along as a fact because it supports your agenda that Theo and what is going on with the team currently is beyond questioning.

Did anyone think before last year that adding Jason Hammel, Wei-Yin Chen and several bullpen pieces would make Baltimore a contender?

Nope.

But that doesn't mean they simple ignored the major league team and didn't even attempt to make it better. One thing you are guaranteed is that if you dont even try, you will not succeed.

And even if they feel short of being a contender, losing less than 100 games is still better than losing 100 games.

There is zero reason that a team with the resources the Cubs have should ever throw away a season in order to improve the farm system or that having a top 5 draft pick is a reasonable return for a 100 loss season or should not make every attempt possible to field the best team they can every season.

If you really think the last two years are the best possible teams the Cubs could have fielded, well there is not much anyone can say to educate you.

He's the same guy that defended the moves Hendry made, so....

 

[Capt. Serious]

He's the same guy that defended the moves Hendry made, so....

Jntg is my idol brah

 

[nwfisch]

Completely oversighted the Nats GM on my list.

 

[dabynsky]

how so? how is he a top 10 GM? Please tell me. Do I need to break it down again?

1) He inherited a 90 win team in Boston

2) He had unlimited spending ( See Cheringtons Theo cleanup last year with the deals to LA)

3) Sure he hit on ells and middlebrooks.....great! he also spent money on some pretty bad players!

Lets see him win a few divisions with this franchise than you can call him a top 10. Any GM can do what he did in Boston, that is fact.

Who is better than?

 

[Jntg4]

He's the same guy that defended the moves Hendry made, so....

That was CO, I thought Hendry was getting too much hate, not that he didn't deserve any. He wasn't as bad as he was made out to be, definitely glad they got rid of him, even if the timing was a little weird and we ended up getting nothing done that deadline apart from trading Fukudome under Bush. At first he was questioned, it became obvious he needed to go, and then the same rallying together of the media and fans against him as the "pro-Theo" movement you seem to hate so much occurred, simply in reverse.

 

[nwfisch]

Who is better than?

Astros GM #1.

Cubs GM #30?