The underlying problem with the Bulls is John Paxson and Gar Forman.

[clonetrooper264]

Noah out 4-6 months. Needs surgery on the shoulder.

It's time to unleash the crazy eyes

 

[PolarBear]

As much as I love Noah, I want to see Portis get some significant time. He looks like a difference maker to me. Brings Noah's energy but with an actual ability to put the ball in the hoop.

 

[Axl Rose]

I guess in fairness the Bogut trade was a gutsy trade since Monta was a huge part of their franchise. They were able to get Iggy through some creative lumping of their crappy signings from years prior and draft picks...Iggy had already agreed to sign with them so Denver was just trying to get what they could. Utah ended up getting like 5 picks out of that deal to facilitate. I would have no confidence in GarPax to do either one of those types of deals.

fair points

it doesn't really matter, GarPax are going nowhere because Jerry is too loyal to his guys

thats the underlying problem

 

[The Hawk]

John Paxson and Gar Forman have been running this team for over 13 seasons now. They have not gotten it done. They should be fired. I simply cannot recall this type of blinding support and protection when it came to Jerry Angelo, Phil Emery, Jim Hendry, or any other executive in Chicago sports. The fact is--Continuously, GarPax has failed to provide talented, championship caliber rosters.

When the losing happens, they sell this narrative to the fan base and in turn the media echoes the following: The teams' shortcomings fall on the coach, Derrick Rose's injury history (and difficult contract), or just the fact that LeBron James is in the same conference, therefore there is not even a point to trying to improve the team. A popular response in the Chicago media is: "Well, Derrick Rose and his huge contract. It takes up 33% of the Bulls salary cap. Nobody wants it. They can't do anything. They don't have any valuable pieces." Its simply BS. Don't you wonder how the likes of talented rosters like the Warriors, Rockets and Clippers are built? The best teams have competent management who do not sit on their hands year after year, while pushing the same garbage narrative emphasizing continuity.

You don't see this with Bob Meyers in Golden State or Daryl Morey in Houston or Gary Sacks in Los Angeles. When Bob Meyers was "capped out" two off-seasons ago, did he sit on his hands like John Paxson and Gar Forman? Or did he actively pursue players through free agency and trade. I wonder how Finals MVP Andre Iguodala ended up on their team when according to GarPax's philosophies, they had no way of acquiring talent of that caliber, given their alleged cap constraints. Oh yeah. Its called creativity. Its called a sign and trade with Denver. Its called doing your job well. Forget being aggressive in free agency once every five years and then striking out each time. Forget blaming the 2nd most winningest coach in franchise history for the teams losses. Forget the fact that the team hasn't acquired a non-rookie via a trade within the last 5 years (C.J Watson was signed and then traded to bulls for nothing in FA 2010). Forget the fact that John Paxson physically assaulted a coach, and instead of getting fired immediately, he was instantly promoted. Forget the fact that Tom Thibodeau wasn't even GarPax's choice to coach the team, as they preferred the likes of Doug Collins, Lawrence Frank and Mike Brown. Forget the fact that John Paxson went from broadcast booth to making all personnel decisions in one years time.

You can even go ahead and make up reasons to support them by citing overused rhetorics backing the drafting of Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler. Just because you have drafted fairly well (and its not even like they have recently, i.e. Teague, McDermott, Snell, Bairstow, Mirotic), this doesn't make you good executives. The reality is that both guys have failed so miserably when it comes to exploring other ways of improving the roster. I am simply astonished that the media feeds into this garbage that the Bulls org. sells. It shouldn't happen anymore. The fans deserve to see a championship, and as long as those guys are employed, they wont. And believe me, the media isn't helping that cause when all you do is refuse to have the conversation and deflect the criticism to something else. Even when Thibs was fired in May--Adrian Wojnarowski wrote that objective article filled with truths detailing the Bulls dysfunction within management and their obvious vendetta against Thibodeau, not once did the Chicago media mention it. When do we hold these guys accountable?

Watch out now. The Gar/Pax fan club is gathering to attack you. I have echoed pretty much the same thing for a few years now. Those two guys are a-holes. Between Paxon and his bully actions to Gars nepotism and short-sightedness, the two together are worthless. And why have two of them. Why have two guys that are charged with doing the same thing? It is similar to what Reinny does with the White Sox. Two guys in Hahn and Williams where one should do? WHy?

YOu didn't mention Reinny very much in your fine post and I think that it is really he who is the real bottom line problem.

 

[Enasic]

The mis-understanding with the Garpax debate is multi faceted. People who are dead set against them and want them fired believe anyone who defends them is part of some fan club and not just being objective within evaluations. Beyond that, people in favor of them getting axed, automatically think a change is going to produce better results, despite the guy doing the hiring, is the very same owner they also bash and lump in with Garpax. I just fail to see the logic in this. I think overall the FO is in the top half of the league. Probably top 10 rather easily. If you pick a part and dissect every front office in the league with the same lens and knowledge you use judging this FO, you'll see that every organization has their share of blunders. Often times, a lot worse than this FO. Are they douche bags? Yeah, probably. Would we be in better shape firing Garpax and bringing in someone else who ultimately has to answer to JR and do things his way? Eh, probably not.

 

[Scoot26]

The mis-understanding with the Garpax debate is multi faceted. People who are dead set against them and want them fired believe anyone who defends them is part of some fan club and not just being objective within evaluations. Beyond that, people in favor of them getting axed, automatically think a change is going to produce better results, despite the guy doing the hiring, is the very same owner they also bash and lump in with Garpax. I just fail to see the logic in this. I think overall the FO is in the top half of the league. Probably top 10 rather easily. If you pick a part and dissect every front office in the league with the same lens and knowledge you use judging this FO, you'll see that every organization has their share of blunders. Often times, a lot worse than this FO. Are they douche bags? Yeah, probably. Would we be in better shape firing Garpax and bringing in someone else who ultimately has to answer to JR and do things his way? Eh, probably not.

The anger probably lies within that the Bulls are almost that close.. They are a move or two away at times it seems like, but nothing happens. That's where the real anger lies.

The team hasn't been bad for awhile, even with injuries. Under Paxson and Gar since 2003 they've made the playoffs all but twice, and were a #5 seed or higher every year but 3 of those years. So that's the good. The bad is not finding that last piece to the puzzle. And that is the frustrating part.

 

[Enasic]

The anger probably lies within that the Bulls are almost that close.. They are a move or two away at times it seems like, but nothing happens. That's where the real anger lies.

The team hasn't been bad for awhile, even with injuries. Under Paxson and Gar since 2003 they've made the playoffs all but twice, and were a #5 seed or higher every year but 3 of those years. So that's the good. The bad is not finding that last piece to the puzzle. And that is the frustrating part.

That's definitely where the anger lies. And that's natural and easy to understand. Something that's a little harder to understand is that is the same frustration nearly every single team in the entire league feels. Imagine having guys like CP3 and Blake on your team and still not reaching the finals. Or Harden and Howard. Or having a core of Brandon Roy, Greg Oden, and LMA and have injuries rob you of a possible playoff run. The Bulls story would sure look different if Rose never got hurt. Yeah, it's frustrating, and no the FO is hardly perfect or without blame, but the grass isn't always greener...

 

[Scoot26]

That's definitely where the anger lies. And that's natural and easy to understand. Something that's a little harder to understand is that is the same frustration nearly every single team in the entire league feels. Imagine having guys like CP3 and Blake on your team and still not reaching the finals. Or Harden and Howard. Or having a core of Brandon Roy, Greg Oden, and LMA and have injuries rob you of a possible playoff run. The Bulls story would sure look different if Rose never got hurt. Yeah, it's frustrating, and no the FO is hardly perfect or without blame, but the grass isn't always greener...

Right, though it could be argued that since the front office can't find that last missing piece they should be fired and someone who can should go out and find it.

I also think the realism is that's not as easy as it could be either.

Sure, we have a FO that has pretty much stood pat, not made a major trade in their entire existence that was in some form a salary cap relief trade, and that is troubling about them. But every GM is going to have pro's and con's against them.

The last bit is that Superstars win in this league. The Bulls either have to suck to get one, or trade for one. Neither of which they are right now. The last bit is to get one through free agency, something they've failed at over and over again. And while they had one, he hasn't been one for 4 years now, so its time to think ahead.

 

[Enasic]

Right, though it could be argued that since the front office can't find that last missing piece they should be fired and someone who can should go out and find it.

I also think the realism is that's not as easy as it could be either.

Sure, we have a FO that has pretty much stood pat, not made a major trade in their entire existence that was in some form a salary cap relief trade, and that is troubling about them. But every GM is going to have pro's and con's against them.

The last bit is that Superstars win in this league. The Bulls either have to suck to get one, or trade for one. Neither of which they are right now. The last bit is to get one through free agency, something they've failed at over and over again. And while they had one, he hasn't been one for 4 years now, so its time to think ahead.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page overall. I wouldn't doubt that if the FO can't get a 1st round pick or a young/ascending player on a good deal for Gasol or Taj that they would be content on letting Noah and Pau walk in the off-season and go after one of Nic Batum, Harrison Barnes, Chandler Parsons, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Jordan Clarkson etc

 

[Diddy1122]

fair points

it doesn't really matter because GarPax are going nowhere because Jerry is to loyal to his guys

thats the underlying problem

100% truth. You need only look to the White Sox to see how JR's loyalty to his FO guys has really lead to a overall decline in team performance.

I don't think GarPax are horrible but I don't think they are that great either, agreeing with a lot of the points raised here. My biggest problem has been the lack of blame they assume in any situation. The Thibs fiasco in particular the past two years has really shown the true colors of the FO and they aren't pretty.

But like many have said, it could be a lot worse. Sam Hinkie or Billy King could be running the team...

 

[The Hawk]

The mis-understanding with the Garpax debate is multi faceted. People who are dead set against them and want them fired believe anyone who defends them is part of some fan club and not just being objective within evaluations. Beyond that, people in favor of them getting axed, automatically think a change is going to produce better results, despite the guy doing the hiring, is the very same owner they also bash and lump in with Garpax. I just fail to see the logic in this. I think overall the FO is in the top half of the league. Probably top 10 rather easily. If you pick a part and dissect every front office in the league with the same lens and knowledge you use judging this FO, you'll see that every organization has their share of blunders. Often times, a lot worse than this FO. Are they douche bags? Yeah, probably. Would we be in better shape firing Garpax and bringing in someone else who ultimately has to answer to JR and do things his way? Eh, probably not.

I think that Gar is worthless and takes the easy way out in building a team. I do not think either of those guys has anykind of vision down the road and never have had a vision. It was they who created this unbalance team. Nobody else. And I do give Reinny the lion's share of the blame just as I do in the way he runs the White SOx. He is CHEAP and never a risk taker. Having a guy in charge of basketball operations fail to win a championship, even a conference championship is a FAILURE that merits getting you fired.

Sure, if they fire these two bozos, they MIGHT get someone worse. But we know what they cannot do with those two guys and that is not win a championship THey had a chance over the last 6-7 years of winning a championship but failed because of the small measures that they took not thinking beyond adding a role player or two. They also failed in not being able to bring in a significant free agent or agents in. That is on them entirely. I think it is because of how players assess their boss and how he treats his coaches and players.

 

[Enasic]

I just don't think they're as bad as a lot of people make them out to be. It's easy to be frustrated given our playoff failures, roses injury, and a lack of activity at the trade deadline. I just wouldn't equate not making a deal with "passing up a deal that improves the team." We have no idea what offers have even been out there and trades for game changing talent is rare in the nba. I wouldn't complain of they were fired, but I wouldn't expect to start hanging banners either. We would still have that uphill battle of trying to find another top 10ish or better caliber player.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Im not one to put a pedestal type of thing. But, it does seem no one wants to step in Jordan's shoes. Y'all have had tremendous HS students come from Chicago. You would think one would want to the hometown hero. Jordan is the only answer and I am probably completely wrong but its hard to explain.

Jordan wasn't from Chicago, so why does a kid from Chicago have to fill his shoes?

 

[Parade_Rain]

GarPax sucks. It's amazing how many people are willing to accept mediocrity.

 

[PolarBear]

I think that Gar is worthless and takes the easy way out in building a team. I do not think either of those guys has anykind of vision down the road and never have had a vision. It was they who created this unbalance team. Nobody else. And I do give Reinny the lion's share of the blame just as I do in the way he runs the White SOx. He is CHEAP and never a risk taker. Having a guy in charge of basketball operations fail to win a championship, even a conference championship is a FAILURE that merits getting you fired.

Sure, if they fire these two bozos, they MIGHT get someone worse. But we know what they cannot do with those two guys and that is not win a championship THey had a chance over the last 6-7 years of winning a championship but failed because of the small measures that they took not thinking beyond adding a role player or two. They also failed in not being able to bring in a significant free agent or agents in. That is on them entirely. I think it is because of how players assess their boss and how he treats his coaches and players.

If Rose doesn't get hurt and Jimmy came on just like he did, would you be sitting here complaining about GarPax? The answer is no because this team would be favourites to win the East after probably getting to the Finals last year. Not saying they get past GS but the Bulls were as close as they had ever been to beating Lebron last year and having an MVP Rose would have put them over the top.

A lot of this frustration stems from the fact that our superstar got hurt. GarPax couldn't do anything about that.

 

[PolarBear]

GarPax sucks. It's amazing how many people are willing to accept mediocrity.

Mediocrity? The Bulls have been at or around the top of the East almost for the past decade. Trying to win a championship is pretty difficult when you routinely have to get past the best player in the world.

If D Rose doesn't get injured, they may have done it last year after GARPAX drafted Jimmy Butler with the 30th pick who has come on to be a star in his own right. It's not GarPax's fault Rose got injured and sorry to say, hoping Rose comes back into form has been our only real chance of acquiring a superstar since he went down. Melo was the closest but he was never leaving that money on the table or his home town.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The Bulls finished near the top for the past decade because the HC thoroughly exhausted them in the regular season, which created the illusion the team was better than they were.

 

[PolarBear]

The Bulls finished near the top for the past decade because the HC thoroughly exhausted them in the regular season, which created the illusion the team was better than they were.

While somewhat true, the thought that the team was "mediocre" is incorrect. Prime Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Luol Deng in combination with guys like Boozer, Gibson, Asik and Korver, that team was way better than your average NBA team. It had serious holes at 2 guard, no real 2nd scoring threat and a lack of perimeter shooting but GarPax addressed concerns like that by adding Gasol, Butler and Mirotic. The team was missing pieces that it now has, it's just that D Rose and Joakim Noah couldn't avoid serious injuries.

Who could GarPax have gotten to make this team better at that time? Lebron and Wade were never coming here. Dwight Howard has been a shell of his former self.

 

[Menchifus]

Winning 50+ games every year in the NBA is considered mediocre now? Man, you guys are spoiled watching the Dubs.

The underlying problem on this team is Noah. He just doesn't fit in Hoiberg's system. It infuriates me when he insists on being a point-center and remaining at the top of the key the entire offensive play. His man can slack off from him and clog the lane. We're having so much success with Gasol because of his deadly midrange jumper. We had a winning streak when Noah first went down with a shoulder injury. Now he comes back and we lose 4 out of 5. The best thing that could've happened is for him to sit out the rest of the season. Watch the Bulls put on a winning streak from here on out.

And we need Dunleavy back. McDermott and Snell are turnstiles.

 

[SilenceS]

Jordan wasn't from Chicago, so why does a kid from Chicago have to fill his shoes?

What? It doesn't have to be a kid but you would think if they are from there that would give them incentive to play there. Thats all I meant. My main reasoning is people don't want to walk in Jordan's shoes. I said I could be completely wrong. If I am wrong, then y'all have a lot more to worry about because your front office for the past 20 years has been shit.