They're starting to post stuff like this and it's making me nervous

[Jntg4]

Dewey just used WAR, maybe the Mayans were right. And Dewey, nobody is saying that everything is perfect, we just agree with the direction the new regime laid out for the team, is it that bad? Agreeing with the overall direction of your team once in a while? NOBODY thinks every move will work, NOBODY thinks every prospect will pan out, yet you act like we all do. And BTW, not caring about your farm is flat-out moronic, you can't fill every starting spot with FA or trade (which is harder to pull off without a farm), you need to have some youth coming through the pipeline, and not just your relievers you wouldn't trade for Greinke either.

And, ya, he's exactly right that we won't win 90 in 2 years without any top tier FA, but what top tier FA could we have signed this off-season? Hamilton? He wouldn't come here. Sanchez? We came close, obviously the FA tried there. Greinke? You said it yourself that you don't find him valuable. Yet then you think the team is done for signing a few decent pitchers when you are supporting signing FA, there were no top-tier FA's to get this off-season.

 

[Jntg4]

Welcome to Pittsburgh and Kansas City.

Welcome to never signing a premier free agent ever again.

Guess you haven't noticed, but the top free agents are now getting over $200 million.

And enough of the Soriano contract is stopping the Cubs from signing players.

Did Zito's contract prevent the Giants from extending Cain?

Did Howards contract prevent the Phillies from extending Hamels?

Did Vernon Wells contract prevent the Angels from signing Pujols, Hamilton, AND Wilson?

Those that look around the rest of the league will see other teams with equally as 'bad' of contracts as Soriano and those teams are able to sign free agents and remain competitive while still working on building their systems.

It is not unreasonable at all to expect the same from the Cubs.

Not at all.

We aren't talking about one contract hindering moves, we are talking about multiple at the same time here, Soriano is just the last hold-over from a group of overpaid and declining vets.

 

[nwfisch]

Dewey just used WAR, maybe the Mayans were right. And Dewey, nobody is saying that everything is perfect, we just agree with the direction the new regime laid out for the team, is it that bad? Agreeing with the overall direction of your team once in a while? NOBODY thinks every move will work, NOBODY thinks every prospect will pan out, yet you act like we all do. And BTW, not caring about your farm is flat-out moronic, you can't fill every starting spot with FA or trade (which is harder to pull off without a farm), you need to have some youth coming through the pipeline, and not just your relievers you wouldn't trade for Greinke either.

And, ya, he's exactly right that we won't win 90 in 2 years without any top tier FA, but what top tier FA could we have signed this off-season? Hamilton? He wouldn't come here. Sanchez? We came close, obviously the FA tried there. Greinke? You said it yourself that you don't find him valuable. Yet then you think the team is done for signing a few decent pitchers when you are supporting signing FA, there were no top-tier FA's to get this off-season.

There were two last offseason that would have helped jump-start the rebuilding process.

 

[Rice Cube]

There were two last offseason that would have helped jump-start the rebuilding process.

I'm pretty sure someone would have found a way to complain about those

 

[nwfisch]

I'm pretty sure someone would have found a way to complain about those

No doubt, I'd be one of em after 5-6 years too. :lol:

 

[Rice Cube]

No doubt, I'd be one of em after 5-6 years too. :lol:

Try one or two. First basemen don't usually sign huge contracts in free agency with the NL because there's no DH spot. It's just the way it is.

 

[mountsalami]

not caring about your farm is flat-out moronic,

Your farm system is an extension of the ML team, not the other way around.
Tanking seasons and flipping mediocre players, on one and two year contracts, at the ML level, for other teams garbage to "stockpile" prospects is a real stroke of genius.

The odds are ,severely, that the plan doesn't come close to working on its own without eight to ten years of the pattern they are on.
That's being generous.
If their plan doesn't work in five years.
This team could very well end up like the Astros and will be announcing the rebuild of their initial "rebuild".

 

[waldo7239117]

So, you wanted the Cubs to sign both Hamilton and Grienke? Both of whom were way overpaid. Waste. Of. Money.

 

[AHSIllini32]

Your farm system is an extension of the ML team, not the other way around.
Tanking seasons and flipping mediocre players, on one and two year contracts, at the ML level, for other teams garbage to "stockpile" prospects is a real stroke of genius.

The odds are ,severely, that the plan doesn't come close to working on its own without eight to ten years of the pattern they are on.
That's being generous.
If their plan doesn't work in five years.
This team could very well end up like the Astros and will be announcing the rebuild of their initial "rebuild".

I'm glad you don't have anything to do with the Cubs...in any way.

 

[Jntg4]

So, you wanted the Cubs to sign both Hamilton and Grienke? Both of whom were way overpaid. Waste. Of. Money.

Actually, he hasn't answered how he would make this team competitive through free agency.

 

[Rice Cube]

Your farm system is an extension of the ML team, not the other way around.
Tanking seasons and flipping mediocre players, on one and two year contracts, at the ML level, for other teams garbage to "stockpile" prospects is a real stroke of genius.

The odds are ,severely, that the plan doesn't come close to working on its own without eight to ten years of the pattern they are on.
That's being generous.
If their plan doesn't work in five years.
This team could very well end up like the Astros and will be announcing the rebuild of their initial "rebuild".

That attitude was part of the reason why the Cubs missed the playoffs for 39 years.

 

[JosMin]

Your farm system is an extension of the ML team, not the other way around.
Tanking seasons and flipping mediocre players, on one and two year contracts, at the ML level, for other teams garbage to "stockpile" prospects is a real stroke of genius.

The odds are ,severely, that the plan doesn't come close to working on its own without eight to ten years of the pattern they are on.
That's being generous.
If their plan doesn't work in five years.
This team could very well end up like the Astros and will be announcing the rebuild of their initial "rebuild".

 

[JosMin]

hey if your trophy and satisfaction comes from A,AA,and AAA records than you....well....are average. I dont care about our farm system and i have made that known for years on this board. you can make your comments about our farm all day long....thats great! but listen up felix pie.....your farm isnt anywhere near good, you have 2 guys right now that look like they will be busts in vitters and jackson....remember....rizzo and castro arent specs anymore.

as far as our "serviceable players" I do remember guys being able to come up and produce and be immediatly thrown into the big leagues ala...addison reed, nate jones, quintana,santiago,and jordan danks.

chris sale has a much much better upside than shark. anyone who would take shark over sale is a fucking moron.

chris sale is a better talent and is also only 23.

chris sale:23- 3.05 192 IP 142 ERA+ Whip 1.13 WAR 5.7 k/9 9.0 SOs 192
Shark:27- 3.81 174 IP 103 ERA+ Whip 1.21 WAR 1.6 k/9 9.3 SOs 180

Lets not forget that shark also has 5 years of experience in the majors and he is still nowhere near the caliber of sale. no one said he is verlander but he in one of the better pitchers in all of baseball. Look at the numbers.....sale crushes shark....just by the numbers of first time starters i will take by chances with Sale all day long over shark...all day long. oh and there is a little difference pitching in the NL as well as opposed to the AL and Sale still smacks him like a *****. your comparison was a very weak attempt, i say you try harder.

Please go back through my posts and show me where I once said Samardzija was on the same plateau in terms of ceiling or current talent. If you didn't have the reading comprehension of a seven-year-old, you'd probably be able to deduce that I said this --

The guy hasn't done shit, just like Samardzija. And no, I'm not inferring that I think Samardzija is the same caliber of pitcher or has the same ceiling as Sale. What I'm saying is what's wrong with a team being cautious about a young player that they have plenty of financial control over? Not only would it be stupid for the Cubs to trade Samardzija, but it'd be equally stupid to offer him an extension when he's still cheap. The same thing goes for Sale.

I mean, you fucking QUOTED WHAT I SAID, yet still don't have the mental aptitude to understand. You need me to go fetch you another drool cup? Nobody on the Cubs board is saying the only way to build a successful franchise is to hoard draft picks and prospects -- we're saying that, as it appears right now, this is the route our front office is choosing to take: acquiring prospects first, fill out gaps with free agents later. With the proven track records of teams like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston and even the Yankees up until Steinbrenner went crazy in the early 00s, this is the correct blueprint to take when you're wanting to build a sustainable roster that is always able to compete.

But we can go ahead and marvel over the unparalleled success that the Sox have had over the last 12 years -- Oh wait, they have the same number of playoff appearances since 2000 as the Cubs (3)! Yes, the difference is the World Series, I realize that. But also keep in mind you had five starters make every single one of their starts, career years from Cotts, Politte and Hermanson out of the bullpen, and an MVP-caliber seasons from Konerko. Since that World Series, you've had one postseason appearance, and oh man, remember what the result was? A 3-1 series drubbing from the Rays! That team that builds through the draft, acquiring controllable players and saving money by signing their prospects to long-term deals with team options! Holy shit! Woahhhhh! LOGIC!!!!!

 

[Rice Cube]

Please go back through my posts and show me where I once said Samardzija was on the same plateau in terms of ceiling or current talent. If you didn't have the reading comprehension of a seven-year-old, you'd probably be able to deduce that I said this --



I mean, you fucking QUOTED WHAT I SAID, yet still don't have the mental aptitude to understand. You need me to go fetch you another drool cup? Nobody on the Cubs board is saying the only way to build a successful franchise is to hoard draft picks and prospects -- we're saying that, as it appears right now, this is the route our front office is choosing to take: acquiring prospects first, fill out gaps with free agents later. With the proven track records of teams like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston and even the Yankees up until Steinbrenner went crazy in the early 00s, this is the correct blueprint to take when you're wanting to build a sustainable roster that is always able to compete.

But we can go ahead and marvel over the unparalleled success that the Sox have had over the last 12 years -- Oh wait, they have the same number of playoff appearances since 2000 as the Cubs (3)! Yes, the difference is the World Series, I realize that. But also keep in mind you had five starters make every single one of their starts, career years from Cotts, Politte and Hermanson out of the bullpen, and an MVP-caliber seasons from Konerko. Since that World Series, you've had one postseason appearance, and oh man, remember what the result was? A 3-1 series drubbing from the Rays! That team that builds through the draft, acquiring controllable players and saving money by signing their prospects to long-term deals with team options! Holy shit! Woahhhhh! LOGIC!!!!!

Da Rayz no win da World Series. Ur point iz invalidz.

But they did get beaten by another team that was surprisingly homegrown...I'm sure you remember who that team was.

 

[JosMin]

Da Rayz no win da World Series. Ur point iz invalidz.

But they did get beaten by another team that was surprisingly homegrown...I'm sure you remember who that team was.

Oh yeahhhh, the Phillies!? And wouldn't you know -- EVERY SINGLE STARTER other then Pedro Feliz was either acquired VIA a trade as a prospect or drafted by the Phillies. Yup, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins -- all home grown. Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino -- acquired when they were babies.

But no, let's just bust a huge $500 million dollar nut and sign Carl Crawford, Jason Bay, the corpse of Alex Rodriguez, Gil Meche, etc. That sounds like a stellar idea.

 

[DewsSox79]

Please go back through my posts and show me where I once said Samardzija was on the same plateau in terms of ceiling or current talent. If you didn't have the reading comprehension of a seven-year-old, you'd probably be able to deduce that I said this --



I mean, you fucking QUOTED WHAT I SAID, yet still don't have the mental aptitude to understand. You need me to go fetch you another drool cup? Nobody on the Cubs board is saying the only way to build a successful franchise is to hoard draft picks and prospects -- we're saying that, as it appears right now, this is the route our front office is choosing to take: acquiring prospects first, fill out gaps with free agents later. With the proven track records of teams like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston and even the Yankees up until Steinbrenner went crazy in the early 00s, this is the correct blueprint to take when you're wanting to build a sustainable roster that is always able to compete.

But we can go ahead and marvel over the unparalleled success that the Sox have had over the last 12 years -- Oh wait, they have the same number of playoff appearances since 2000 as the Cubs (3)! Yes, the difference is the World Series, I realize that. But also keep in mind you had five starters make every single one of their starts, career years from Cotts, Politte and Hermanson out of the bullpen, and an MVP-caliber seasons from Konerko. Since that World Series, you've had one postseason appearance, and oh man, remember what the result was? A 3-1 series drubbing from the Rays! That team that builds through the draft, acquiring controllable players and saving money by signing their prospects to long-term deals with team options! Holy shit! Woahhhhh! LOGIC!!!!!

you are a fucking moron. you did compare sale and shark by stating the "one yearszz and stuffz as teh first times startersz" there is no point to your statement.

As far as the sox go. who cares about the career years? most teams have that happen to win a ws title. All I care about is championships. nothing more nothing less. if you care only about A,AA,and AAA records and projections have at it. you just seem a bit bitter that your team hasnt won shit...but hey its teh playoffzz appreearenceszxzzz and stuffzz. keep it coming.

 

[DewsSox79]

Oh yeahhhh, the Phillies!? And wouldn't you know -- EVERY SINGLE STARTER other then Pedro Feliz was either acquired VIA a trade as a prospect or drafted by the Phillies. Yup, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins -- all home grown. Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino -- acquired when they were babies.
But no, let's just bust a huge $500 million dollar nut and sign Carl Crawford, Jason Bay, the corpse of Alex Rodriguez, Gil Meche, etc. That sounds like a stellar idea.

to bank on that happening is fucking stupid logic.

 

[DewsSox79]

Since that World Series, you've had one postseason appearance, and oh man, remember what the result was? A 3-1 series drubbing from the Rays!

how many playoff wins did you have in 07 and 08? just curious because I cant remember....the only thing i remember was a huge choke job. but hey its about the sox losing to the rays and stuff.

 

[mountsalami]

Actually, he hasn't answered how he would make this team competitive through free agency.

“When we got here, we identified one core player [[Starlin Castro]] and now we can look around and see [Anthony Rizzo], [Darwin Barney], [Jeff Samardzija] , and others. We do have more positional prospects than pitchers, so we felt Jackson will be with us for many years to come.” --Theo Epstein "Boy Blunder"


Nice to see that our fellow "die hards" aren't chiming in about this. Weren't they the ones who said that the Cubs won't persue big free agents until a core was already in place? Theo has just listed four core players as well as others.

I gather it will have to just wait until an established 7 starters from the Cubs system are fully in place before expecting anything to be done. Then 10, then 14........

 

[Jntg4]

you are a fucking moron. you did compare sale and shark by stating the "one yearszz and stuffz as teh first times startersz" there is no point to your statement.

As far as the sox go. who cares about the career years? most teams have that happen to win a ws title. All I care about is championships. nothing more nothing less. if you care only about A,AA,and AAA records and projections have at it. you just seem a bit bitter that your team hasnt won shit...but hey its teh playoffzz appreearenceszxzzz and stuffzz. keep it coming.

Nobody cares about "A, AA, and AAA records" (apparently you know little about the organization of MiLB anyway), we care about the individual success and development of potential future stars and average starters in the minors. Do you honestly think anybody cared about Iowa last year post-Rizzo/Jackson/Vitters? I report on minor leagues and I barely gave a shit about them. It's the players, not the team records.

Great to know that you know how all the Cubs fans think so much that you can critique us and act like we are stupid because you think we believe several things that we don't.