They're starting to post stuff like this and it's making me nervous

[mountsalami]

That wasn't me dumbfuck, not reading the rest of your post either, it obviously contributes nothing.

Then don't state things that are not true.
Obviously you don't like it either.

Dumbfuck.

 

[mountsalami]

Thanks for biting on my setup. Then call me the dumbfuck.

Kudos.

 

[mountsalami]

This is finally, FINALLY, a well run organization.

How are they better from when JedStein took over??

They aren't.

Funny how last offseason was too soon to make any judgements on the team improvement, but here you are puffing your chest out about the great improvements after they lost 101 games.

Then as previously pointed out, the rotation is not as strong as it was last year.

Right now, on paper, the team doesn't even look as strong as it was last year when the team lost 101 games.

But apparently it is unrealistic to be upset about that since they have spent maybe $10M a season on the minor league system. Losing 101 games should be celebrated for the top draft pick it brings and the 6 months of terrible baseball should be ignored.

 

[Rice Cube]

The difference is not in the MLB portion of the franchise but in just about everything else. Without a solid foundation the house cannot stand. The foundation is what they are trying to stabilize and strengthen before they plug in to the MLB portion. That's simply an opinion based on the available information though. Nobody said it was easy to watch a 100-loss team or even a 90-loss or 85-loss team. It's just one of the things the team has to deal with as they rebuild.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Hey, lets ignore all those awful contracts Theo gave out in Boston.

Oh, but he's the greatest & stuffz!

 

[Rice Cube]

Hey, lets ignore all those awful contracts Theo gave out in Boston.

Oh, but he's the greatest & stuffz!

http://worldseriesdreaming.com/2012/11/25/theo-jim-hendry-and-context/

 

[mountsalami]

The difference is not in the MLB portion of the franchise but in just about everything else. Without a solid foundation the house cannot stand. The foundation is what they are trying to stabilize and strengthen before they plug in to the MLB portion. That's simply an opinion based on the available information though. Nobody said it was easy to watch a 100-loss team or even a 90-loss or 85-loss team. It's just one of the things the team has to deal with as they rebuild.

Sorry, I've heard this fairy tale before in 1994 when a Director of Baseball Operations was brought in with much, much better credentials than Failstein, Andy McPhail who took over a much less talented team in Minnesota than Theo did in Boston and won the same 2 World Series doing far better work.

It was the exact same talk of restructuring and modernizing the front office and of a dedication to building a strong farm system.

 

[Rice Cube]

Sorry, I've heard this fairy tale before in 1994 when a Director of Baseball Operations was brought in with much, much better credentials than Failstein, Andy McPhail who took over a much less talented team in Minnesota than Theo did in Boston and won the same 2 World Series doing far better work.

It was the exact same talk of restructuring and modernizing the front office and of a dedication to building a strong farm system.

The Tribune still owned the Cubs back then. Did he ever get the monetary support he needed to really bring in the right players when all was said and done? Did they draft well? I think you're oversimplifying things a bit.

 

[mountsalami]

The Tribune still owned the Cubs back then. Did he ever get the monetary support he needed to really bring in the right players when all was said and done? Did they draft well? I think you're oversimplifying things a bit.

You REALLY think the Cubs could get to the 90 win plateau in two more seasons without signing top tier FA's?

The point I have been trying to make is that it can take a very long time to develop those younger, cheaper players.

Do you really think this is the first time they have tried to develop younger cheaper players?

But they havent been able to develop that core all at the same time.

In the early 2000's the Cubs had a top 5 farm system. How many All Star players ended up coming from it?

Not many.

Maybe you are patient enough to wait a decade or so for them to start spending in FA while remaining a top 5 revenue team. I am not.

 

[Rice Cube]

You REALLY think the Cubs could get to the 90 win plateau in two more seasons without signing top tier FA's?

The point I have been trying to make is that it can take a very long time to develop those younger, cheaper players.

Do you really think this is the first time they have tried to develop younger cheaper players?

But they havent been able to develop that core all at the same time.

In the early 2000's the Cubs had a top 5 farm system. How many All Star players ended up coming from it?

Not many.

Maybe you are patient enough to wait a decade or so for them to start spending in FA while remaining a top 5 revenue team. I am not.

Considering that they've been only at it for a little more than a year, I don't think the plan is all that apparent yet. That's the only thing I'm really saying. You are more than welcome to look at the next free agent lists (I've already done this on our blog) but the available crop isn't super-strong and it's unlikely that they would be able to get any of them due to the tendency of clubs to lock up their own players before they are allowed to leave via free agency. There's nothing that says they can't go after free agents (they've done that with Edwin Jackson whether you like the signing or not) but they do have to pinpoint the right guys to sign and not just throw money at whatever is out there.

Theo and Jed have five year deals. They'll have about that long to show a turnaround or they'll be replaced. But the farm has improved some and they're building infrastructure. Whether you like it or not, whether you are patient or not, infrastructure is important.

 

[Jntg4]

You REALLY think the Cubs could get to the 90 win plateau in two more seasons without signing top tier FA's?

The point I have been trying to make is that it can take a very long time to develop those younger, cheaper players.

Do you really think this is the first time they have tried to develop younger cheaper players?

But they havent been able to develop that core all at the same time.

In the early 2000's the Cubs had a top 5 farm system. How many All Star players ended up coming from it?

Not many.

Maybe you are patient enough to wait a decade or so for them to start spending in FA while remaining a top 5 revenue team. I am not.

In the early 2000's and up until recently we got top spects, sure, but there is a reason so much less of those panned out than in other organizations. We didn't really focus on on-base skills much at all until the new regime took over. We were looking at guys that were all skill and no discipline, which is much less likely to yield results. Again, not every prospect will become an all-star, we all know that, we aren't ignorant of that fact. Which is why you need as many as possible to improve your chances of getting a few all-stars.

And to say this organization isn't in a better state overall than before Theo/Hoyer/etc. is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. I don't think you realize how shitty the FO was, how barren the minor leagues are, starting with the coaching even, as the old regime didn't preach plate discipline at all... I mean, look at Rudy Jaramillo at the major league level for example. All throughout the organization.

 

[mountsalami]

In the early 2000's and up until recently we got top spects, sure, but there is a reason so much less of those panned out than in other organizations. We didn't really focus on on-base skills much at all until the new regime took over. We were looking at guys that were all skill and no discipline, which is much less likely to yield results. Again, not every prospect will become an all-star, we all know that, we aren't ignorant of that fact. Which is why you need as many as possible to improve your chances of getting a few all-stars.

And to say this organization isn't in a better state overall than before Theo/Hoyer/etc. is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. I don't think you realize how shitty the FO was, how barren the minor leagues are, starting with the coaching even, as the old regime didn't preach plate discipline at all... I mean, look at Rudy Jaramillo at the major league level for example. All throughout the organization.

I have read all the wonderments of the painted base pads last spring along with the Cub's Way Book of Basics.

 

[mountsalami]

Which is why you need as many as possible to improve your chances of getting a few all-stars.

I agree totally.

I am just a believer you can do BOTH.
Field a competitive ML team on the field AND build your farm system at the same time.
I know it's a tough thought to grasp.

Fortunately for the Cubs. They don't have the payroll constraints of the Rays, Pirates, Royals, Astros and have to rely on the farm.
But yet that's the path you want to travel.

 

[Jntg4]

I agree totally.

I am just a believer you can do BOTH.
Field a competitive ML team on the field AND build your farm system at the same time.
I know it's a tough thought to grasp.

Fortunately for the Cubs. They don't have the payroll constraints of the Rays, Pirates, Royals, Astros and have to rely on the farm.
But yet that's the path you want to travel.

No, that's not the path, it is signing the best free agents when they are available for the long-run. However, even if you went out and signed a few free agents this off-season, we still wouldn't be good, and by the time the young core comes together, we'd be stuck with a bunch of aging 35 year olds with huge paychecks limiting what we can do when we are actually ready. It is all about picking and choosing the right times and the right players.

I'd like to see you take free agents from this market, use the 2012-13 offseason free agent list, and assemble a team that will actually make the playoffs this year from that crop, while staying under the luxury tax. It isn't a one-season fix in reality, but I'd love to see you try it.

 

[mountsalami]

Welcome to Pittsburgh and Kansas City.

Welcome to never signing a premier free agent ever again.

Guess you haven't noticed, but the top free agents are now getting over $200 million.

And enough of the Soriano contract is stopping the Cubs from signing players.

Did Zito's contract prevent the Giants from extending Cain?

Did Howards contract prevent the Phillies from extending Hamels?

Did Vernon Wells contract prevent the Angels from signing Pujols, Hamilton, AND Wilson?

Those that look around the rest of the league will see other teams with equally as 'bad' of contracts as Soriano and those teams are able to sign free agents and remain competitive while still working on building their systems.

It is not unreasonable at all to expect the same from the Cubs.

Not at all.

 

[mountsalami]

It isn't a one-season fix in reality, but I'd love to see you try it.

Never said it was.
But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth again.

 

[whitesoxman77]

Never said it was.
But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth again.

No wonder you make no sense. You're an Iowa fan.

 

[nwfisch]

No wonder you make no sense. You're an Iowa fan.

:smh:

 

[DewsSox79]

You REALLY think the Cubs could get to the 90 win plateau in two more seasons without signing top tier FA's?

The point I have been trying to make is that it can take a very long time to develop those younger, cheaper players.

Do you really think this is the first time they have tried to develop younger cheaper players?

But they havent been able to develop that core all at the same time.

In the early 2000's the Cubs had a top 5 farm system. How many All Star players ended up coming from it?

Not many.

Maybe you are patient enough to wait a decade or so for them to start spending in FA while remaining a top 5 revenue team. I am not.

exactly right.

Lets just break it down a bit more easier.

Who are the definites on this team? ya know the ones who are going to anchor during "contending" years?

castro- still has an upside for a bit more power and better defense but it is still unknown if that will ever happen. But he is part of the core.

rizzo- still needs to prove himself but i will give on this just for shits.

Shark- not an ace, not untouchable, but probably a part of the core.

Garza- who the **** knows what they will do with him but lets assume he stays here.

That is a whole lot of holes to fill to contend. Point is, there is no way that this will be done without actually spending in FAcy. Hell they dont really have the specs to go out and get premier players via trade and they dont have the valuable vets to move to get more specs back. I think some of the cubs fans on this board are blind and are going all in with theo as if what he does is perfect.

he also spent a hell of a lot more money in boston and inherited a 90 win team, a much different scenario than this. Just because he hit on pedroia and ellsbury doesnt mean he is the end all be all and its a slam dunk that his philosophy is going to work.

 

[DewsSox79]

What's funny about the Sale comment? The guy was a reliever for two seasons and then had a successful season as a starter. You're acting like he's Justin Verlander. The guy hasn't done shit, just like Samardzija. And no, I'm not inferring that I think Samardzija is the same caliber of pitcher or has the same ceiling as Sale. What I'm saying is what's wrong with a team being cautious about a young player that they have plenty of financial control over? Not only would it be stupid for the Cubs to trade Samardzija, but it'd be equally stupid to offer him an extension when he's still cheap. The same thing goes for Sale.

And about your prospects -- they aren't even serviceable. They're terrible. The White Sox farm system is laughable, and that's me being polite. Hands down, the worst farm system in baseball. If Courtney Hawkins and Keon Barnum get you excited, then by all means, have at it.

hey if your trophy and satisfaction comes from A,AA,and AAA records than you....well....are average. I dont care about our farm system and i have made that known for years on this board. you can make your comments about our farm all day long....thats great! but listen up felix pie.....your farm isnt anywhere near good, you have 2 guys right now that look like they will be busts in vitters and jackson....remember....rizzo and castro arent specs anymore.

as far as our "serviceable players" I do remember guys being able to come up and produce and be immediatly thrown into the big leagues ala...addison reed, nate jones, quintana,santiago,and jordan danks.

chris sale has a much much better upside than shark. anyone who would take shark over sale is a fucking moron.

chris sale is a better talent and is also only 23.

chris sale:23- 3.05 192 IP 142 ERA+ Whip 1.13 WAR 5.7 k/9 9.0 SOs 192
Shark:27- 3.81 174 IP 103 ERA+ Whip 1.21 WAR 1.6 k/9 9.3 SOs 180

Lets not forget that shark also has 5 years of experience in the majors and he is still nowhere near the caliber of sale. no one said he is verlander but he in one of the better pitchers in all of baseball. Look at the numbers.....sale crushes shark....just by the numbers of first time starters i will take by chances with Sale all day long over shark...all day long. oh and there is a little difference pitching in the NL as well as opposed to the AL and Sale still smacks him like a *****. your comparison was a very weak attempt, i say you try harder.