THN picks the Hawks to lose in the SCF to the Caps

[R K]

I'm not pinning it soley on him winning the Cup. Where did I say that?



He has shown up when his team needs him most. I watched most of the last two Caps playoffs runs. Ovechkin while points, did not come through in the clutch. He'll even his teams own fans say this.



I never said he wasn't good. I said I think he's over rated. IMO there is a difference.



Again I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

You can't pin it on Crosby only because his team won the Stanley Cup. You're using what is seen ,by it's fans, as the ultimate team accomplishment in team sports against a single player. It just doesn't make any sense to me to put the brunt of criticism of not achieving that on any one player, especially one in which has played well, but can't make up for the 20 something other guys on the team. It's just not possible. It makes more sense to criticize the "experts" who pick the Caps. But even in that, looking at this upcoming year with the steal of the offseason acquisition in Vokoun, a goalie who is one of the few that CAN play above the overall talent of the defense in front of him, I'd probably pick them too.

Good point on Vokoun. To me he might be the biggest X factor in the league this year. If he can play like he did in Florida and Nashville then Washington is going to be a really good team. Vokoun is 35 so he is getting older, and we'll see how he does playing in a stronger hockey market, not saying Washington is Montreal or Toronto but their fans and media is going to be a lot tougher on him than those in Florida or Nashville. He also doesn't have a lot of experience in the playoffs or on good teams. That lack of experience can mess with a goalies mind sometimes, we'll see if Vokoun is able to overcome that cause it's going to be a completely new experience for him.

 

[R K]

Good point on Vokoun. To me he might be the biggest X factor in the league this year. If he can play like he did in Florida and Nashville then Washington is going to be a really good team. Vokoun is 35 so he is getting older, and we'll see how he does playing in a stronger hockey market, not saying Washington is Montreal or Toronto but their fans and media is going to be a lot tougher on him than those in Florida or Nashville. He also doesn't have a lot of experience in the playoffs or on good teams. That lack of experience can mess with a goalies mind sometimes, we'll see if Vokoun is able to overcome that cause it's going to be a completely new experience for him.

He was interviewed by the Miami Herald in a series of 3 interviews. While I agree he too is playoff untested. At 35 he speaks about wanting to win and also talks about his inexperience in the playoffs.



Now Niemi was too, BUT the Caps do not have Seabrook, Keith, Campbell and Hjarlmarsson.



Anyway I thought the interviews were interesting and have always liked him.



http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers/

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

I'm not pinning it soley on him winning the Cup. Where did I say that?



He has shown up when his team needs him most. I watched most of the last two Caps playoffs runs. Ovechkin while points, did not come through in the clutch. He'll even his teams own fans say this.



I never said he wasn't good. I said I think he's over rated. IMO there is a difference.



Again I'll agree to disagree.

This is my take on the guy too. He's a great player, arguably the most talented in the world, however I think he lacks the intangibles that will make him a champion. He's played good in the playoffs, but heroes are made in clutch situations and to date he hasn't been able to CAPITALize(see what I did there

) on his chances in those situations. He's played in 4 career Game 7's in the playoffs and his team is 1-3. He does have 4 points in those games but 2 came when they lost to Philly. Since taking on a leadership role he's seemed to be less successful in the big games.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

He was interviewed by the Miami Herald in a series of 3 interviews. While I agree he too is playoff untested. At 35 he speaks about wanting to win and also talks about his inexperience in the playoffs.



Now Niemi was too, BUT the Caps do not have Seabrook, Keith, Campbell and Hjarlmarsson.



Anyway I thought the interviews were interesting and have always liked him.



http://miamiherald.t...om/flapanthers/

Funny he talked about a lot of the things I mentioned. Good interviews. Talking about his inexperience is one thing but he's gonna have to prove that he can play on a playoff team. Personally I don't think he'll have any problem, he's a world class goaltender and seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders(just ask Keith Ballard).

 

[Variable]

I'm not pinning it soley on him winning the Cup. Where did I say that?



He has shown up when his team needs him most. I watched most of the last two Caps playoffs runs. Ovechkin while points, did not come through in the clutch. He'll even his teams own fans say this.



I never said he wasn't good. I said I think he's over rated. IMO there is a difference.



Again I'll agree to disagree.

You don't see how that's inherently a flawed way of looking at a player at that level? This nitpicking goes both ways. Well Ovechkin has the points, but Crosby was "coming through" when his team needed him the most. Crosby had 3 points in 7 games against Detroit, no points whatsoever coming in the final 3 games of that series when the Penguins won the Cup. I don't hold that against Crosby, just as I don't hold the Caps not winning against Ovechkin. They're each only one player on the ice. The difference was Crosby had a good enough team to compensate for him not producing as he usually does. You can be the best player on the planet, if you don't have a team that can pick YOU up when you're down, it'll be tough to win a Cup. We've seen this first hand.



And the fans' complaints don't really matter to me. And come on RK, you using fan's complaints as some kind of valid point, when it's hard pressed for you to even acknowledge a lot of the current Hawks fans...... as fans, let alone consider any of their "complaints" about the team, is kinda comical.



They've been picked as favorites the last couple years. The fans have been hyped up basically since Ovechkin's arrival and the idea of getting a Cup that came with him. Falling short of the goal after looked primed for it during the last few seasons, it's always easy to drop the blame on the top players. It's easy to do, every fan base does it. I don't take it as gospel.



Along with Crosby, Ovechkin is putting up points at a rate that eclipses players of the stand up goalie high scoring, high offense era of 70s, 80s, early 90s. Eclipsing Hall of Fame players of those eras. All while playing in one of the highest defensive, "dead puck" eras. There are some negative terms you could use to describe him and his style of play no doubt, but overrated isn't one of them.

 

[R K]

holy shit you wrote a book. No, I don't see how my comment is inherently flawed. I think you are writing too much into it. I agree with Shoots. Ovechkin has had MANY times to elevate his team in the playoffs. So far, while he's gotten points, he's failed to produce at the times needed most.



The game 7 analogy he uses is pretty good. Sure some of thats the team, BUT when you are the best player in the WORLD, you need to smack down in the clutch. Maybe some day he will, who knows.



Crosby has produced in that "clutch moment" many times.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Vokoun has hands down been the most consistent goalie since the lockout along with Lunqvist. Certainly not THE best goalies in the league but definetly the most consistent and on mediocre at best teams. It will be interesting to see if Vokoun can take the Caps to the next level... nice to see him finally on a good team.

 

[JOVE23]

he's a world class goaltender and seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders(just ask Keith Ballard).

wakka wakka!

 

[supraman]

This is my take on the guy too. He's a great player, arguably the most talented in the world, however I think he lacks the intangibles that will make him a champion. He's played good in the playoffs, but heroes are made in clutch situations and to date he hasn't been able to CAPITALize(see what I did there

) on his chances in those situations. He's played in 4 career Game 7's in the playoffs and his team is 1-3. He does have 4 points in those games but 2 came when they lost to Philly. Since taking on a leadership role he's seemed to be less successful in the big games.

I think part of the reason Ovie fades some in the playoffs is defense gets tighter in the playoffs, he doesn't get to freewheel as much and doesn't get to dance around everyone as easily.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

Here, in just a couple or three words, is what will stop the Caps from taking it all. This is coming from a former season ticket holder that was there during their complete turnaround from perennial bottom dwellars to one of the best in the East.

Defense or lack there of

Piss Poor playoff Coaching



Green is not a Defenseman, he is a forward that plays the blue line. Schultz is a tree on skates......he makes Sopel look fast, and he is afraid to hit. That was the top pair.....they sucked....IMHO their 2nd pairing is much better Carlsson/Alzner. We'll see what picking up Hamerlick and Wideman does for them...I think they addressed the issue with them, but we will see. Poti remains a drain, with his constant injuries.....and Erskine, although I like him, is not a great D-man.



Boudreau is quite capable of winning every championship up to and including the "A" he just does not have the motivational skills or talent to keep up with the big boys in the "N." This team has the talent to win it all, as is, the problem is, Gabby has no clue how to light a fire under their asses after they go down a couple games. I also think Ovi was the wrong choice as Captain. He is one of the best in the world, and trully loves the game, but Knuble or someone else should have been handed the C. The fans forced GMGM, Gabby and Poppa Ted's hand on naming Ovi captain.

 

[supraman]

holy shit you wrote a book. No, I don't see how my comment is inherently flawed. I think you are writing too much into it. I agree with Shoots. Ovechkin has had MANY times to elevate his team in the playoffs. So far, while he's gotten points, he's failed to produce at the times needed most.



The game 7 analogy he uses is pretty good. Sure some of thats the team, BUT when you are the best player in the WORLD, you need to smack down in the clutch. Maybe some day he will, who knows.



Crosby has produced in that "clutch moment" many times.

I don't see Ovie as the best player in the world. I rank Crosby and Toews ahead of him (No I will not take off my fan googles)



Ovie - Greatest scorer in the world

Crosby - Greatest setup man in the world

Toews - Smartest hockey player in the world



Personally I'll take a setup man or a smart player over a goal scorer.

 

[R K]

I might agree with that Supra.

 

[MassHavoc]

I would probably agree with that too. Scoring is too one dimensional. While it's what wins the games, if it's shut down it is also what loses them. Being smart and making plays, getting people involved to me is more important of a good TEAM, than one guy scoring all the points giving the other team something to focus on and shut down. Now, having said that, looking at all his points it hasn't translated well to teams being able to shut him down, but in the playoffs when things get tight, you've seen the results. He still puts up the points, but the team overall doesn't win. Good teams can manage one-dimensional over a 7 game series. Probably a little harder during the season.

 

[LordKOTL]

When it comes to Ovenchicken, He lacks a quality about being a captian that I think is essential unless you have one hell of a supporting cast around you--and that is he's a lead-by-example type of captain that likely got the position not on pure leadership skills, but rather the fact that he's the best player on the team. Crosby's similar. Neither Crosby or Ovechkin will ever be used in the same sentance as, say, Sakic or Yzerman. Toews on the other hand, will and does. Toews may never match their stats, but he has the innate ability to raise the level of play of the whole team. To wit: picture the three after their playing careers are over: Who would most likley make it as a GM or a head coach? The defense rests.

 

[Variable]

Now, having said that, looking at all his points it hasn't translated well to teams being able to shut him down, but in the playoffs when things get tight, you've seen the results. He still puts up the points, but the team overall doesn't win.

What I don't get is how is that blamed on Ovechkin? How is the play of the other players put on his shoulders when he's already doing everything he can? Again, I have to keep going back to this, he's one player on the ice. Toews is one player on the ice, Crosby is one player on the ice. They can't control how well or poor their teammates play, ESPECIALLY when they can't be out on the ice in every situation. How is this sport recognized and is seen by it's fans as a great example of a true team sport, where it's truly down to every last man on the roster that can make an impact but we continue to single out one player and put a team's failure mostly on him? Even when he's producing? I don't get that. It's backwards to me.

He also doesn't have a lot of experience in the playoffs or on good teams. That lack of experience can mess with a goalies mind sometimes, we'll see if Vokoun is able to overcome that cause it's going to be a completely new experience for him.

Ehh, the experience difference looks to be another example of an over-exaggerated variable. From the lockout to present this is the record and some numbers of "playoff experienced" goalies to goalies who aren't:



Playoff Rookies: 92-106, 2.58, .913

Experienced: 244-230, 2.46, .914



The rookies faced about a shot and a half more per game, which can make up for the difference in GAA. The difference in wins and losses (I hope) shouldn't have to be explained, as a goalie's W-L record really shouldn't be relied on as indicative of that goalie's actual ability. Again, something we've seen before firsthand with Niemi.



The playoff experience excuse looks to be a bread and butter storyline more than anything else. Something easy to point to when a newcomer gets shelled, and something that makes it "more interesting" and "a surprise performance" when they don't or they play well.

 

[R K]

I remember Toews being one player on the ice tying game #7 in the last moments of the game to force over time.



Again when your "stars" show up at crucial times is what everyone else is talking about. Not sure how you don't get it.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I remember Toews being one player on the ice tying game #7 in the last moments of the game to force over time.



Again when your "stars" show up at crucial times is what everyone else is talking about. Not sure how you don't get it.

Kaner agains Nashville with 25 seconds left otherwise the Hawks season is likely over in the 1st round. Or how about his hat trick to put Vancouver away in their first playoff meeting?

 

[Variable]

You can also remember him being on the ice when they lost that game. Look, don't take that as a knock against him, because that's the point I'm making. There's only so much one player can do in the game. There's only so much you can make up for, there's only so much slack you can pick up for your team, there's only so many mistakes you can cover up while you're on the ice.



Some people are putting Toews up above Crosby and/or Ovechkin, and that's fine, I don't have a problem with people thinking that way, but that should have been seen as an example, much like with Ovechkin, of one player (the best in the league as seen by some) not being able to do everything, even when he's playing as hard as he can (and maybe not seeing the evidence of it on the stat sheet like in the SC Final the year before, Crosby being another example in that).

 

[the canadian dream]

Problem with the Caps is they play soft hockey. Guys like Semin and Green and even Backstrom are not playoff hockey players. Ovechkin can at least play physical all be it rather dirty at times. Then they bring in guys like Wideman on their blueline when they actually need a stay at home physical blueliner DOH!!! Through the line up the Caps aren't and have never really been a team that send shivers down the spines of the opposition. I would match up a team like the Caps to a team like the Bruins and pick the Bruins in a 7 game series any day of the week.



This is where guys like Brouwer will be impact players for the Caps. Depth role playing bodies they needed.



I do like the Caps chances this year more than any other.