Thomas Brown for Head Coach

[dbldrew]

Ok so you ran your mouth about these 3 plays but cant produce the evidence. Fail.

You said according to PFF. According to PFF it is 2.3% to 2.6%. You dont work for PFF so trying to correct them is irrelevant as we are discussing according to PFF.

And no dumbass we cant agree to that. We were talking percentages relative to number of plays in a game. If Caleb had 1 TWPs but only had 10 plays that is 10%. If he had 2 TWP but 30 plays that is 6.67%. Anyone not being dishonest like you kmows the 2nd scneario is better but your dumbass is trying to claim well his TWP per game went up 100% and pretending that is bad.

We know you are losing the argument because you cant produce the 3 plays you claim, you want to substitute your calculations for PFF's when you claimed you were judging per PFF, and after discussing TWP% per play this whole time you now want to switch to TWP per game. You are flailing worse than an octopus on dry land.

The last 3 pics I posted the WR did not knock them away. BUT I dont need them for my argument. using the PFF numbers that you provided proves my case.

The % based on plays it more then doubled going from Waldron to Brown so you should of just stuck with the lower 50% per game stat

But you are an idiot when you are vortexing so no surprise.

Let me break down that math for you. Currently CW has 15 TWP, 9 under Waldron and 6 under Brown.

Now the problem with the TWP like I mentioned 10+ pages of vortex ago is it includes fumbles.

My argument has NOTHING to do with fumbles. I said he "throws the ball" to the wrong team.

SO removing the 1 fumble for Brown, and the 4 fumbles from Waldron leaves us with 5 passing TPI for each.

294 passing attempts under Waldron = 1.7%
140 passing attempts under Brown = 3.6%

so thats a 111% increase in passing TPI.. yep skyrocketed like I said.

Your vortex proved me correct again.

You know the first thing I did when you posted the TPI was calculate the actual numbers and have just been letting you vortex yourself for days now. Your vortex does not work against me Remy. You should know this by now.

 

[run and shoot]

Problem with Flores is how poorly he handled Tua in Miami and the defense would need a drastic overhaul in the front 7, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing

It should be noted....Flores brings a tough, no non sense approach to coaching...this approach doesn't resonate with some players.

 

[remydat]

The last 3 pics I posted the WR did not knock them away. BUT I dont need them for my argument. using the PFF numbers that you provided proves my case.

The % based on plays it more then doubled going from Waldron to Brown so you should of just stuck with the lower 50% per game stat

But you are an idiot when you are vortexing so no surprise.

Let me break down that math for you. Currently CW has 15 TWP, 9 under Waldron and 6 under Brown.

Now the problem with the TWP like I mentioned 10+ pages of vortex ago is it includes fumbles.

My argument has NOTHING to do with fumbles. I said he "throws the ball" to the wrong team.

SO removing the 1 fumble for Brown, and the 4 fumbles from Waldron leaves us with 5 passing TPI for each.

294 passing attempts under Waldron = 1.7%
140 passing attempts under Brown = 3.6%

so thats a 111% increase in passing TPI.. yep skyrocketed like I said.

Your vortex proved me correct again.

You know the first thing I did when you posted the TPI was calculate the actual numbers and have just been letting you vortex yourself for days now. Your vortex does not work against me Remy. You should know this by now.

5th pic - The ball is too high so the DB does not have a high chance of intercepting.

6th pic - The DB turns around late and never actually sees the ball until it hits him so he did not have a high chance of intercepting.

7th pic - The ball actually hit the WR in both hands and he knocked it up in the air so the DB did not have a chance to intercept the ball as thrown by Caleb. They had a chance of intercepting only after the WR knocked it in the air so that is not on Caleb.

Let me break it down for you. At the time we started this dicussion it was only 3 games for Brown so our debate did not include the data from the Niners game.

HIGHLIGHT: Caleb Williams fumbles, Grover Stewart recovers

Further, the fumble above is unlikely to be a TWP for Caleb as the fumble occurs not because he didnt secure the ball but because he was hit in the act of passing. The only fumble against the Commanders was the Kramer fumble so again it wasnt for failure to secure the ball but a botched handoff to Kramer that got charged to Caleb. So you are making assumptions unless PFF said they were TWP.

Your claim was that it was per PFF. Where did PFF tell you all those fumbles were deducted or are you just assuming all fumbles are TWP for the QB? Stop trying to do your own adjustments and calculations. You said according to PFF so show me PFF calculations not you doctoring PFF to suit your narrative.

 

[Enasic]

It should be noted....Flores brings a tough, no non sense approach to coaching...this approach doesn't resonate with some players.

That’s fair but so does vrabel. We also know soft and loosey goosey coaching doesn’t work. There’s a middle ground somewhere but if I had to choose an extreme, give me the no nonsense approach.

 

[run and shoot]

It should be noted....Flores brings a tough, no non sense approach to coaching...this approach doesn't resonate with some players.

That’s fair but so does vrabel. We also know soft and loosey goosey coaching doesn’t work. There’s a middle ground somewhere but if I had to choose an extreme, give me the no nonsense approach.

Agreed. Accountability for HC and players. Yes and a no nonsense approach.
As for Tua.....he might be one of these soft type of players who needs coddling

 

[dbldrew]

5th pic - The ball is too high so the DB does not have a high chance of intercepting.

6th pic - The DB turns around late and never actually sees the ball until it hits him so he did not have a high chance of intercepting.

7th pic - The ball actually hit the WR in both hands and he knocked it up in the air so the DB did not have a chance to intercept the ball as thrown by Caleb. They had a chance of intercepting only after the WR knocked it in the air so that is not on Caleb.

Let me break it down for you. At the time we started this dicussion it was only 3 games for Brown so our debate did not include the data from the Niners game.

HIGHLIGHT: Caleb Williams fumbles, Grover Stewart recovers

Further, the fumble above is unlikely to be a TWP for Caleb as the fumble occurs not because he didnt secure the ball but because he was hit in the act of passing. The only fumble against the Commanders was the Kramer fumble so again it wasnt for failure to secure the ball but a botched handoff to Kramer that got charged to Caleb. So you are making assumptions unless PFF said they were TWP.

Your claim was that it was per PFF. Where did PFF tell you all those fumbles were deducted or are you just assuming all fumbles are TWP for the QB? Stop trying to do your own adjustments and calculations. You said according to PFF so show me PFF calculations not you doctoring PFF to suit your narrative.

Why do you even keep trying?

I don't need those extra lions game ones. I'm using your numbers. And yes all fumbles regardless on who recovers it is a TWP per PFF

And just the 3 games it's 3.4% so that's still a 100% increase over the 1.7%.

Disengage your vortex, you have lost

 

[Bearly]

Lets see what happens Monday night. Everybody gets an oopsie.

 

[remydat]

Why do you even keep trying?

I don't need those extra lions game ones. I'm using your numbers. And yes all fumbles regardless on who recovers it is a TWP per PFF

And just the 3 games it's 3.4% so that's still a 100% increase over the 1.7%.

Disengage your vortex, you have lost

Not all INT-opportunities or fumbles are turnover-worthy

Examples of plays in which the quarterback assumes some fault, yet they are still considered “unlucky” to have been intercepted, include passes with poor ball location that get deflected up in the air or overthrows that end up as interceptions on plays where they’d normally fall incomplete.

As for fumbles, there are many degrees of blame when it comes to the quarterback. The first thing to note is the quirkiness of NFL rules where quarterbacks will receive the “fumble” stat on poor snaps by the center, missed handoffs, dropped pitch plays and other situations where there’s simply no clear-cut evidence that they are to blame for the play. All of those situations are graded properly for context in the PFF system, despite the fumble stat.

There are also strip-sacks that are unavoidable and mostly due to something in the pass protection and those are plays where the quarterback may be absolved of the turnover-worthy label.

PFF Grading: The most effective quarterback evaluation method out there

Sam Monson & Steve Palazzolo break down everything that goes into PFF quarterback grading, and why it stand out as a better representation of quarterback play than a standard box score.

www.pff.com

So as I said your dumbass does not understand what a TWP is. You included in your 3 examples a play where the ball hit DJ Moore in both hands and was popped up in the air. The above makes it clear that such plays are not TWP.

You then stupidly lied that PFF said TWPs included all fumbles when the above makes clear that TWPs do not include fumbles charged to the QB for missed handoffs and strip sacks. So your assumption that that 9 TWPs for Waldron included all 4 fumbles which should be removed was wrong and you flat out lied about what PFF said.

So once again dumbass stop claiming you are doing something per PFF because you are too stupid to actually read, digest and interpret what they say. For you to quote from this same link multiple times but still claim tipped passes and all fumbles are TWP per PFF just shows how mind numbingly stupid you really are.

Disengage the vortex my ass. You have been caught lying about what PFF says jackass.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Not all INT-opportunities or fumbles are turnover-worthy

Examples of plays in which the quarterback assumes some fault, yet they are still considered “unlucky” to have been intercepted, include passes with poor ball location that get deflected up in the air or overthrows that end up as interceptions on plays where they’d normally fall incomplete.

As for fumbles, there are many degrees of blame when it comes to the quarterback. The first thing to note is the quirkiness of NFL rules where quarterbacks will receive the “fumble” stat on poor snaps by the center, missed handoffs, dropped pitch plays and other situations where there’s simply no clear-cut evidence that they are to blame for the play. All of those situations are graded properly for context in the PFF system, despite the fumble stat.

There are also strip-sacks that are unavoidable and mostly due to something in the pass protection and those are plays where the quarterback may be absolved of the turnover-worthy label.

PFF Grading: The most effective quarterback evaluation method out there

Sam Monson & Steve Palazzolo break down everything that goes into PFF quarterback grading, and why it stand out as a better representation of quarterback play than a standard box score.

www.pff.com

So as I said your dumbass does not understand what a TWP is. You included in your 3 examples a play where the ball hit DJ Moore in both hands and was popped up in the air. The above makes it clear that such plays are not TWP.

You then stupidly lied that PFF said TWPs included all fumbles when the above makes clear that TWPs do not include fumbles charged to the QB for missed handoffs and strip sacks. So your assumption that that 9 TWPs for Waldron included all 4 fumbles which should be removed was wrong and you flat out lied about what PFF said.

So once again dumbass stop claiming you are doing something per PFF because you are too stupid to actually read, digest and interpret what they say. For you to quote from this same link multiple times but still claim tipped passes and all fumbles are TWP per PFF just shows how mind numbingly stupid you really are.

Disengage the vortex my ass. You have been caught lying about what PFF says jackass.

Again not just PFF but FTN & PFR too.

 

[dbldrew]

Not all INT-opportunities or fumbles are turnover-worthy

Examples of plays in which the quarterback assumes some fault, yet they are still considered “unlucky” to have been intercepted, include passes with poor ball location that get deflected up in the air or overthrows that end up as interceptions on plays where they’d normally fall incomplete.

As for fumbles, there are many degrees of blame when it comes to the quarterback. The first thing to note is the quirkiness of NFL rules where quarterbacks will receive the “fumble” stat on poor snaps by the center, missed handoffs, dropped pitch plays and other situations where there’s simply no clear-cut evidence that they are to blame for the play. All of those situations are graded properly for context in the PFF system, despite the fumble stat.

There are also strip-sacks that are unavoidable and mostly due to something in the pass protection and those are plays where the quarterback may be absolved of the turnover-worthy label.

PFF Grading: The most effective quarterback evaluation method out there

Sam Monson & Steve Palazzolo break down everything that goes into PFF quarterback grading, and why it stand out as a better representation of quarterback play than a standard box score.

www.pff.com

So as I said your dumbass does not understand what a TWP is. You included in your 3 examples a play where the ball hit DJ Moore in both hands and was popped up in the air. The above makes it clear that such plays are not TWP.

You then stupidly lied that PFF said TWPs included all fumbles when the above makes clear that TWPs do not include fumbles charged to the QB for missed handoffs and strip sacks. So your assumption that that 9 TWPs for Waldron included all 4 fumbles which should be removed was wrong and you flat out lied about what PFF said.

So once again dumbass stop claiming you are doing something per PFF because you are too stupid to actually read, digest and interpret what they say. For you to quote from this same link multiple times but still claim tipped passes and all fumbles are TWP per PFF just shows how mind numbingly stupid you really are.

Disengage the vortex my ass. You have been caught lying about what PFF says jackass.

Thats not me lying thats me being wrong. Sorry I misunderstood the fumble part. I can admit when I'm wrong and dont need to vortex around it. Me being wrong about the fumbles doesnt change anything though.

Here is a video from PFF explaining TWP and they have a few examples..

A strip sack absolutely is accredited to the QB when he does what CW always does on sacks... holds onto the ball to long.

(also there is a contested ball by the WR in the examples, so that excuse is gone and brings back the extra TWP from the lions game as well)

So my numbers are still good. (better if we want to add more from the lions game)

Yes you should disengage your vortex. Here is why

The more you argue against my numbers, the more you are arguing against your own argument. You trying to argue the point that you cant know the true passing only TWP is just pointing out your entire argument was stupid in the first place to use against my point that he throws the ball to the wrong team.

 

[dbldrew]

Again not just PFF but FTN & PFR too.

PFR has turnover worthy plays?

 

[remydat]

Thats not me lying thats me being wrong. Sorry I misunderstood the fumble part. I can admit when I'm wrong and dont need to vortex around it. Me being wrong about the fumbles doesnt change anything though.

Here is a video from PFF explaining TWP and they have a few examples..

A strip sack absolutely is accredited to the QB when he does what CW always does on sacks... holds onto the ball to long.

(also there is a contested ball by the WR in the examples, so that excuse is gone and brings back the extra TWP from the lions game as well)

So my numbers are still good. (better if we want to add more from the lions game)

Yes you should disengage your vortex. Here is why

The more you argue against my numbers, the more you are arguing against your own argument. You trying to argue the point that you cant know the true passing only TWP is just pointing out your entire argument was stupid in the first place to use against my point that he throws the ball to the wrong team.

You were not just wrong about the fumble. You were also wrong in the pic you posted where the ball bounced off Moore as it clearly says such plays are not TWP for the QB. So you have been wrong this entire thread.

No the only contested catch they showed was Minny vs Falcons and the Minny DB actually intercepted it dumbass. That bears no resemblence to a contested catch where the WR clearly knocks it down.

And no your fumble numbers are not good. It clearly says missed handoffs dont count and with the 4 fumbles is a missed handoff to Kramer.

You aslo do not know how they graded the strip sack. The Latu sack was discussed earlier this season as it was a 7 man protection with Lewis and Kmet in to block. The RB also was in the backfield on play action so it was a two man route jackass and Caleb said he had to wait on the WRs to clear the DBs. So he didnt hold the ball too long. The play was designed for him to wait as it was expected 7 men should be able to block 4 men. It was a clear failure in pass protection as it was always going to take time for 2 WRs to get open against 7 defenders in coverage.

So again we are left with per PFF it was 2.3 vs 2.6 so that is a 13% increase. No adjustments and calculations by you as you have proven you don't know how PFF does anything. So stop claiming you are posting something according to PFF. You are making up your own dumb inaccurate and biased numbers based on being ignorant of how PFF actually graded a play.

 

[Hoodey]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743048617751904550

Let's say Caleb looks good to close out the season and Brown's play calling looks legit.

Would be the most Bears move ever for Bears to fire Flus and just make Brown Head Coach for the sake of continuity and Caleb having a 2nd year in the offense.

Remember Tomczak v harbaugh? One of them would start, play poorly and then the other would go in and play pretty well. Because the other team didn’t game plan for tomczak. Two weeks later you’d be like “oh.” Then Harbaugh would go in and play well and everyone would get happy. Then two weeks later.. oh.

When brown took over as OC, no one had film of brown with Chicago personnel. Then he and Williams faced a couple of teams with pass defenses ranked near the bottom of the league. Detroit and Minnesota.

Then they played the 49ers and

1) there was enough film on brown to really game plan for him
2) Williams wasn’t playing against 25th ranked pass defense that likes to blitz with linebackers who can’t catch a QB who can run a little

4 yards in the first half.

This was a big bears fan mistake when grossman played here. He’d show out against some of the worst defenses in the league and then get annihilated by a top defense.

Ah Grossman. The score had a poll that had like 70+% saying he was the answer at QB. Just as many people who love Williams and loved cutler loved grossman. Now you can’t even find someone who will admit to being a grossman fan lol

 

[remydat]

Remember Tomczak v harbaugh? One of them would start, play poorly and then the other would go in and play pretty well. Because the other team didn’t game plan for tomczak. Two weeks later you’d be like “oh.” Then Harbaugh would go in and play well and everyone would get happy. Then two weeks later.. oh.

When brown took over as OC, no one had film of brown with Chicago personnel. Then he and Williams faced a couple of teams with pass defenses ranked near the bottom of the league. Detroit and Minnesota.

Then they played the 49ers and

1) there was enough film on brown to really game plan for him
2) Williams wasn’t playing against 25th ranked pass defense that likes to blitz with linebackers who can’t catch a QB who can run a little

4 yards in the first half.

This was a big bears fan mistake when grossman played here. He’d show out against some of the worst defenses in the league and then get annihilated by a top defense.

Ah Grossman. The score had a poll that had like 70+% saying he was the answer at QB. Just as many people who love Williams and loved cutler loved grossman. Now you can’t even find someone who will admit to being a grossman fan lol

Minny and Lions are 2 top defenses against the run. Their low passing rankings are due to teams passing a lot because of how good their run D is as well as teams being behind a lot against team. I believe @bamainatlanta can confirm they have top 10 or so pass defense EPA per play.

And I said previously these division rematches will go a long way in telling how viable Brown is as Minny, GB and Lions will get to gameplan against him having already faced him once. If Caleb and the O holds up in these rematches then it will reflect well on Brown. If not then will be an indication that your point is valid.

 

[TheEarlofRobin]

And I said previously these division rematches will go a long way in telling how viable Brown is

What? So the Bears hiring Thomas Brown as the full-time HC is still on the table?

Are you serious?

 

[Hoodey]

Minny and Lions are 2 top defenses against the run. Their low passing rankings are due to teams passing a lot because of how good their run D is as well as teams being behind a lot against team. I believe @bamainatlanta can confirm they have top 10 or so pass defense EPA per play.

And I said previously these division rematches will go a long way in telling how viable Brown is as Minny, GB and Lions will get to gameplan against him having already faced him once. If Caleb and the O holds up in these rematches then it will reflect well on Brown. If not then will be an indication that your point is valid.

Still, these are not pass defenses like the 49ers and you saw what happened.

The Vikings may be a better performance for a franchise who loves to win when they are out of the playoffs to ruin their draft pick. Because it fools so many fans. They’re a blitzing defense with linebackers who can’t catch Williams. He will play well.

But I don’t expect either game to go as well overall for the bears as the first matchup

 

[Hoodey]

What? So the Bears hiring Thomas Brown as the full-time HC is still on the table?

Are you serious?

Why not? If he can pucker up to the mccaskeys in a way that no great self respecting coach ever would, and he does well enough that that family can sell it, what makes you think it won’t happen.

Remember dick jauron? What? You don’t think one of his main attributes was making the mccaskeys feel special and like he’d never make them feel threatened in any way like ditka via the press

 

[dbldrew]

You were not just wrong about the fumble. You were also wrong in the pic you posted where the ball bounced off Moore as it clearly says such plays are not TWP for the QB. So you have been wrong this entire thread.

I'm not wrong about the pic with Moore I said there was 3 picks where the WR didnt "knock the ball away" Moore did not knock the ball away.
Furthermore your argument about knocking the ball away is irrelevant as PFF has shown in the examples.

No the only contested catch they showed was Minny vs Falcons and the Minny DB actually intercepted it dumbass. That bears no resemblence to a contested catch where the WR clearly knocks it down.

Watch the video again Remy, the outcome of the play is completely irrelevant to what a TWP is. Just like the ball that was tipped up and the WR caught it after the fact and scored TD, is in fact a TWP. The outcome is irrelevant its just if the QB did something good or bad. Throwing the ball to the wrong team is bad and you get a TWP even if the outcome is a TD or a INT, or "knocked down by the WR". So your argument that the ball is "contested and knocked away" is in fact wrong time to add in 3 or 4 more TWP in the lions game alone.

And no your fumble numbers are not good. It clearly says missed handoffs dont count and with the 4 fumbles is a missed handoff to Kramer.

You aslo do not know how they graded the strip sack. The Latu sack was discussed earlier this season as it was a 7 man protection with Lewis and Kmet in to block. The RB also was in the backfield on play action so it was a two man route jackass and Caleb said he had to wait on the WRs to clear the DBs. So he didnt hold the ball too long. The play was designed for him to wait as it was expected 7 men should be able to block 4 men. It was a clear failure in pass protection as it was always going to take time for 2 WRs to get open against 7 defenders in coverage.

we do know how they grade a strip sack.. holding the ball to long = TWP and also you arguing that we "dont know what fumbles count" is you just arguing that your entire argument was stupid to make in the first place.

So again we are left with per PFF it was 2.3 vs 2.6 so that is a 13% increase. No adjustments and calculations by you as you have proven you don't know how PFF does anything. So stop claiming you are posting something according to PFF. You are making up your own dumb inaccurate and biased numbers based on being ignorant of how PFF actually graded a play.

Actually its 3.4, there was no fumbles at all in the 3 games we where talking about with Brown so we know for a fact those 3 games are all passing TWP.

you cant win this argument Remy, all you are attempting to do now is prove that you cant isolate just the passing TWP, so your arguing that your original point was stupid to make in the first place. (which I said 10 pages ago)

but even with you attempting to argue that you where a moron for using this in the first place we can accurately say that there was an almost 50% increase using the combined TWP for Waldren to just the passing TWP for Brown. You have still proven me correct.

Disengage your vortex, you have now resorted to arguing your original point was stupid to make in the first place.

 

[remydat]

What? So the Bears hiring Thomas Brown as the full-time HC is still on the table?

Are you serious?

I didnt say as HC. Viable as an OC.

 

[remydat]

Still, these are not pass defenses like the 49ers and you saw what happened.

The Vikings may be a better performance for a franchise who loves to win when they are out of the playoffs to ruin their draft pick. Because it fools so many fans. They’re a blitzing defense with linebackers who can’t catch Williams. He will play well.

But I don’t expect either game to go as well overall for the bears as the first matchup

Well I guess that is why they play the games. We shall see.