Time For "The Great" Kenny Williams To Go?

[HawkyTalky]

Rios is really bad. There is a reason why Toronto was more than happy to let him go on the waiver claim.

Okay you lost me here. I get that Brian Anderson sucks, and the trade opened the spot for him. However, you can't ignore the guy they got for Aaron Rowand which was Jim Thome. Thome put up a 1.014 OPS in his first season with the team and it was never below .800 in his time in Chicago.

Exactly. I hate that Aaron Rowand left because he was a big part of the team, but getting Jim Thome was huge.

Also, try to imagine the blackout game without Jim Thome's homerun and Brian Anderson's diving catch to end the game.

I love Thome....and I love the fact that he played for MY team. But, you can't deny the fact that KW opened up a hole on this team 6 years ago that hasn't been filled since....he tried to plug it up with Rios and that has been a huge failure.

Sure Thome put up some big numbers for us and was clutch in a couple of games but, in hindsight the trade really did nothing for us because Thome helped us to exactly zero championships.

 

[dabynsky]

I love Thome....and I love the fact that he played for MY team. But, you can't deny the fact that KW opened up a hole on this team 6 years ago that hasn't been filled since....he tried to plug it up with Rios and that has been a huge failure.

Sure Thome put up some big numbers for us and was clutch in a couple of games but, in hindsight the trade really did nothing for us because Thome helped us to exactly zero championships.

If the measure of a successful trade is championships then the vast majority of trades, signings, and other transactions are failures. The point remains that Thome was far more productive for the White Sox than Aaron Rowand was for the various teams he played for, unless you want any part of that contract he has currently which makes the Rios deal look like a bargain.

 

[HawkyTalky]

Anyone who thanks the thread creator or agrees with his 1 sided statement does not follow baseball. Wow! what a joke of a thread.

brandon mccarthy for jon danks=W
Rowand for Thome=W
Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton=W
Loiza for Contreras=W
Signing El duque=W
Signing Carl Everett for insurance on Frank=W
Signing Tadihito Iguchi=W
Trading Carlos Lee for Luis Vizcaino and Scott Podsednik=W
Signing Our Aram=W


All GMs make mistakes.
this just off the top off my head.

And joe, Dan Hudson is nothing special. and again that was a deal to get Adam Dunn. but keep bringing up that one deal joe after you have been told a million times on why.

Oh and to mention adam dunn, I bet you haters were the same morons that were creaming in their pants when they got him and stroking KWs nuts. Fucking hypocrits

Before this year:
.250 BA .381 OBP .902 OPS with 354 HRs
No one said anything bad when we signed him, and looking at those numbers, I would do it again and again and again.

ummmm. he hasnt really made many moves to begin with.

Resigning konerko and AJ


Oh and phil humber.

The main point of this thread was to point out KW's RECENT failures....and in the last 2 or 3 years he has far more failures than wins. As a matter of fact, he has failed more times in the last 2 or 3 years alone than he had in his entire career as GM previously. That says ALOT:

4) Traded some of our best prospects for Nick fucking Swisher and then traded him to the Yankees the following offseason for a bunch of hot garbage. (the trades to acquire him and then trade him to the Yanks were BOTH HORRIBLE.)

5) Trade and extension for Teahen

6) Traded for Peavy

7) Let the Blue Jays dump Rios on us on waivers

8) Dunn....Lowest batting average for a qualifying player IN HISTORY.....enough said.

9) Traded our best pitching prospect Daniel Hudson for EJAX and then traded him to the Jays the following season in a straight salary dump.

The biggest, most embarrassing failure is Rios.

 

[nwfisch]

Acquring a 5 tool CF isn't a bad move. It hasn't panned out. Really can't blame Kenny for things not working out. It's not like the Bears signing Roy Williams.

 

[HawkyTalky]

If the measure of a successful trade is championships then the vast majority of trades, signings, and other transactions are failures. The point remains that Thome was far more productive for the White Sox than Aaron Rowand was for the various teams he played for, unless you want any part of that contract he has currently which makes the Rios deal look like a bargain.

I can agree with your post.....but, IMO at best the Thome/Rowand trade was a wash because yes, Thome was better than Rowand but, deciding to play a stiff like Brian Anderson was extremely misguided and he opened a hole in CF that hasn't been filled since.

With that said, would Rowand still be filling that CF void today? No but, IMO the trade was essentially Rowand for Thome/BA and it just wasn't that good.

And this is coming from a guy who thinks so much of Thome that I used his name as my screenname on another board for 5 years.

 

[HawkyTalky]

Acquring a 5 tool CF isn't a bad move. It hasn't panned out. Really can't blame Kenny for things not working out. It's not like the Bears signing Roy Williams.

Emphasis on "Tool".....

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I love Thome....and I love the fact that he played for MY team. But, you can't deny the fact that KW opened up a hole on this team 6 years ago that hasn't been filled since....he tried to plug it up with Rios and that has been a huge failure.

Sure Thome put up some big numbers for us and was clutch in a couple of games but, in hindsight the trade really did nothing for us because Thome helped us to exactly zero championships.

But Thome helped us get to the playoffs. That's worth something. Big deal Rowand won another championship. He wasn't the reason that team won. Championships don't mean everything when it comes to trading guys. Thome as an important part of this team and filled a whole that we had, which was the DH.

 

[nwfisch]

I think the Sox let Thome go a year too early.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I think the Sox let Thome go a year too early.

I agree. We were left without a DH for a year and Mark Kotsay definitely didn't do the job.

 

[Uman85]

Alex Rios isn't worth a sock full of Reinsdorf's cum.

 

[tbo41fan]

Still doesn't change the fact that Hudson was a hell of alot cheaper & better.

But it doesnt matter about Hudson because the NATS WANTED EJAX, SO THATS WHO KENNY GOT!!! what arent you getting?

Given Dunn's performance this year I am not certain that getting "stuck" with Edwin Jackson wasn't a better outcome...

:yep: for now anyway

 

[TheChicagoFan]

But it doesnt matter about Hudson because the NATS WANTED EJAX, SO THATS WHO KENNY GOT!!! what arent you getting?

Exactly. Williams thought that he was going to get Dunn out of the deal, and he thought he would be getting a good Adam Dunn. That's worth a top prospect in my opinion. The trade fell through and the Sox end up stuck with Jackson and Dunn and then trade Jackson away for what seems like two good pitchers.

 

[DewsSox79]

bump for those who dont understand any of the moves KW has made

 

[TheChicagoFan]

To me its not Williams fault. He has brought in proven vet guys that just havent produced. Dunn nobody saw this happening. Rios coming off 30-30 year. Just hasnt worked this year for CHW

Someone is smart. Don't blame Williams. He has brought good players to the team that end up being terrible on our team because of our hitting coach.

Examples:
Swisher, Ken Griffey Jr, Manny, Dunn, Rios, Teahen.

They were all good hitters before Chicago and will probably be better hitters after Chicago. Hmm...

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Also, I don't understand why people are freaking out about the EJax and Teahen trade to Toronto. So far both of the pitchers we got from them have been good and one is a prospect. I think Zack Stewart will be better than EJax was and Teahen being gone means that Morel is more trusted. Don't be mad about Getz being gone, because Beckham is a much better second baseman. Everything fell into place, certain players just haven't preformed. Don't blame KW for this.

 

[Uman85]

Greg Walker can lick my balls. Seriously, get this ****** out of Chicago.



:gtfo:

 

[Gunzaan]

Wow, no one wants to hold the GM accountable for his moves.

Did he think Dunn, Rios and Peavy would be THIS bad? Obviously not, but he still made the moves. He is the one who should be held accountable. He made gambles, ESPECIALLY with Rios and Peavy, and they have failed miserably. Peavy was the rumors of trades for years, but no one wanted to pull the trigger because of his injury history. Rios was out there on wavers and 31 other teams wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Both moves have failed.

I saw in the post above that Stewart is going to be as good as EJax? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Stewart, by all accounts, has 4 average pitches. There is nothing special about him and he will never be a .500 pitcher in the majors. Frasor just gave up a walk-off HR for the Orioles.. awesome.

I could go on and on. Gio Gonzalez, EJax for Hudson, letting Thome go, etc. but I have been down this road before and Dews + company keep the blinders up and decide to place the blame for all of these things on Ozzie, Walker, or the players.

While I agree that Ozzie and Walker should go ASAP, KW is also responsible for every single gamble that he has made. He is a huge gambler and while the majority of moves he made in his first 5-ish years turned out to be golden, the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit. We are in Chicago, we shouldn't have to put up with this crap. I know for a fact that the Yankees and Red Sox would have fired him awhile ago.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Wow, no one wants to hold the GM accountable for his moves.

Did he think Dunn, Rios and Peavy would be THIS bad? Obviously not, but he still made the moves. He is the one who should be held accountable. He made gambles, ESPECIALLY with Rios and Peavy, and they have failed miserably. Peavy was the rumors of trades for years, but no one wanted to pull the trigger because of his injury history. Rios was out there on wavers and 31 other teams wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Both moves have failed.

I saw in the post above that Stewart is going to be as good as EJax? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Stewart, by all accounts, has 4 average pitches. There is nothing special about him and he will never be a .500 pitcher in the majors. Frasor just gave up a walk-off HR for the Orioles.. awesome.

I could go on and on. Gio Gonzalez, EJax for Hudson, letting Thome go, etc. but I have been down this road before and Dews + company keep the blinders up and decide to place the blame for all of these things on Ozzie, Walker, or the players.

While I agree that Ozzie and Walker should go ASAP, KW is also responsible for every single gamble that he has made. He is a huge gambler and while the majority of moves he made in his first 5-ish years turned out to be golden, the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit. We are in Chicago, we shouldn't have to put up with this crap. I know for a fact that the Yankees and Red Sox would have fired him awhile ago.

That's not entirely true. The Sox actually picked Rios up so that the Twins or Tigers didn't get him.

 

[ChiSportsRich]

I can agree with your post.....but, IMO at best the Thome/Rowand trade was a wash because yes, Thome was better than Rowand but, deciding to play a stiff like Brian Anderson was extremely misguided and he opened a hole in CF that hasn't been filled since.

With that said, would Rowand still be filling that CF void today? No but, IMO the trade was essentially Rowand for Thome/BA and it just wasn't that good.

And this is coming from a guy who thinks so much of Thome that I used his name as my screenname on another board for 5 years.

How was playing Brian Anderson in CF misguided?

 

[ChiSportsRich]

This latest EJAX trade is the last straw for me. I've been a staunch KW and Guillen supporter but, now I want them both fired. That says ALOT.

It's HORRIBLE that KW has made so many bad trades and signings lately that we missed out on Colby Rasmus in the process because Reinsdorf ordered KW to trim payroll.

In order to do so, he had to package one of his worst mistakes (Teahen) with one of his best assets (EJAX) in a straight salary dump. In the process he took a lowball offer for EJAX.

You can't tell me that the Sox couldn't have packaged EJAX with some shit similar to what Toronto packaged for Rasmus....

This is terrible.

KW is making himself look silly. He was once a capable GM and his recent moves have been HORRIBLE.

After making shrewd moves for Danks and Floyd here are some KW "gems".

Swisher TWICE (the trades to acquire him and then trade him to the Yanks were BOTH HORRIBLE.)
Teahen
Peavy
Rios
Dunn
EJAX TWICE (Trading Hudson for him was bad enough but then trading him to the Jays for nothing and than watching them ship him to StL for Rasmus hurts even worse.)

What do you think? Is it time for KW to go?

Trading for Peavy wasnt a bad move, he was one year removed from a Cy Young

Rios was good and has been good for the Sox

Traded Jackson for nothing?? Stewart looked OK in his first start and Frasor is is a solid 'pen guy and solidifing the 'pen cant be bad

Dunn has a bad year, all be it really really really bad, but how is that KW's fault?