Time For "The Great" Kenny Williams To Go?

[CODE_BLUE56]

the problem isnt KW himself

its his personnel..Walker and Ozzie

those clowns need to leave and Kw needs to grow some KAHONES and get em out

 

[DewsSox79]

Trading for Peavy wasnt a bad move, he was one year removed from a Cy Young

Rios was good and has been good for the Sox

Traded Jackson for nothing?? Stewart looked OK in his first start and Frasor is is a solid 'pen guy and solidifing the 'pen cant be bad

Dunn has a bad year, all be it really really really bad, but how is that KW's fault?

i bumped it since KW is getting brought up in other threads

 

[ChiSportsRich]

Wow, no one wants to hold the GM accountable for his moves.

Sure, hes made mistakes as a GM, which one hasnt? but fire him ... C'mon

Did he think Dunn, Rios and Peavy would be THIS bad? Obviously not, but he still made the moves. He is the one who should be held accountable. He made gambles, ESPECIALLY with Rios and Peavy, and they have failed miserably. Peavy was the rumors of trades for years, but no one wanted to pull the trigger because of his injury history. Rios was out there on wavers and 31 other teams wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Both moves have failed.

failed miserably, i think thats a bit strong on Rios end, hes had a bad season but he did well last year, could he possibly rebound next year, I dont see why not.

I saw in the post above that Stewart is going to be as good as EJax? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Stewart, by all accounts, has 4 average pitches. There is nothing special about him and he will never be a .500 pitcher in the majors. Frasor just gave up a walk-off HR for the Orioles.. awesome.

I agree Stewart, more than likely, wont be better than EJax but he strengthed the farm system and the 'pen and got Teahen and his contract to go away, overall a good move imo.

I could go on and on. Gio Gonzalez, EJax for Hudson, letting Thome go, etc. but I have been down this road before and Dews + company keep the blinders up and decide to place the blame for all of these things on Ozzie, Walker, or the players.

Nobody has blinders on about KW. This is the same GM that signed Esteban Loaiza, Phil Humber got Jake Peavy and Carlos Quentin for next to nothing and took a risk and traded for Sergio Santos to haave him converted him to a pitcher

While I agree that Ozzie and Walker should go ASAP, KW is also responsible for every single gamble that he has made. He is a huge gambler and while the majority of moves he made in his first 5-ish years turned out to be golden, the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit. We are in Chicago, we shouldn't have to put up with this crap. I know for a fact that the Yankees and Red Sox would have fired him awhile ago.

"the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit", I think your blinders only allow you to see the bad

 

[DewsSox79]

Wow, no one wants to hold the GM accountable for his moves.

Did he think Dunn, Rios and Peavy would be THIS bad? Obviously not, but he still made the moves. He is the one who should be held accountable. He made gambles, ESPECIALLY with Rios and Peavy, and they have failed miserably. Peavy was the rumors of trades for years, but no one wanted to pull the trigger because of his injury history. Rios was out there on wavers and 31 other teams wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Both moves have failed.

I saw in the post above that Stewart is going to be as good as EJax? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Stewart, by all accounts, has 4 average pitches. There is nothing special about him and he will never be a .500 pitcher in the majors. Frasor just gave up a walk-off HR for the Orioles.. awesome.

I could go on and on. Gio Gonzalez, EJax for Hudson, letting Thome go, etc. but I have been down this road before and Dews + company keep the blinders up and decide to place the blame for all of these things on Ozzie, Walker, or the players.

While I agree that Ozzie and Walker should go ASAP, KW is also responsible for every single gamble that he has made. He is a huge gambler and while the majority of moves he made in his first 5-ish years turned out to be golden, the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit. We are in Chicago, we shouldn't have to put up with this crap. I know for a fact that the Yankees and Red Sox would have fired him awhile ago.

at post and anyone who thanks his post.

Lets look at these moves KW has made.

Bad:
Alex Rios ( block attempt at the tigers failed )
Peavy ( only because he was on the DL when we traded for him
Swisher ( When we traded him away after his awful season ) ( Well documented this was a player that Ozzie did not like and wanted off the team) So count that as a "bad" ozzie move
Letting Thome Go, thats all on ozzie. Again it is documented.
Scott Linebrink- Too much money

Indifferent:
Ejax- Again for the 10000000th time, we got him to flip for Dunn Last year. and Rizzo backed out. We traded away a NL above avg pitcher in Daniel Hudson, who at best is a number 4 in the AL with the Sox.
Manny- desperate for a bat

Adam Dunn cannot be blamed on KW.

Before this year Dunn's career was .250 BA .381 OBP .902 OPS

So the fans who want to blame KW now are the same ones who were stroking his **** when he signed him. Looking at those numbers, if it could be redone, I would tell KW to do it again.

But let me guess, you are still mad because Carlos Lee got traded for Luis Vizcaino and Scott Podsednik, and letting Maggs go right? even though we won the WS without those tools.

I guess KW did a horrible job signing Tadihito, signing Jenks, trading mccarthy for jon danks and nick masset, Getting CQ....oh and joe borchard for matt thornton...taking a chance on AJ ETC ETC.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Greg Walker should've been canned years ago..

If Viciedo gets with him..ugh.

 

[DewsSox79]

Greg Walker should've been canned years ago..

If Viciedo gets with him..ugh.

KWs worst move is the move that he is late on making, firing ozzie and walker.I put that on JR and his loyalty

 

[Uman85]

Ozzie and Walker are the main problem. KW gambled a few times and missed, but he's also hit the jackpot as well. Any move a GM makes could be a gamble. The game of baseball is full of variables. Can't blame it all on Kenny.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Ozzie and Walker are the main problem. KW gambled a few times and missed, but he's also hit the jackpot as well. Any move a GM makes could be a gamble. The game of baseball is full of variables. Can't blame it all on Kenny.

He took some gambles and if we had a good hitting coach, I guarantee people would be praising KW for the pickups.

 

[Uman85]

He took some gambles and if we had a good hitting coach, I guarantee people would be praising KW for the pickups.

Agreed. :clap:

 

[ChiSportsRich]

We could have a rotation of MB, Danks, Floyd... and then Gio, Hudson and/or Clayton Richard. The latter 3 costing the team around $1.5 million or so this season. As opposed to the $25 million or so they had to paid Peavy and Jackson. That extra $23.5 million could've been spent getting a real LF, 3B and C.

Is this serious?? What about Humber? who's to say you would get the same production out of Hudson in the AL that u do in the NL, he was projected as a 3rd or 4th starter. and Clayton Richard sucks. I will agree that Gio would be nice but you gotta give up something to get something, in the case of Swisher KW thought he was getting something in Swisher which he did ... a pouty *****.

A real LF? Juan Pierre is leading the team in Hits, 3B, SB and is 2nd in runs 3rd in average. he had a bad defensive week in the beginning of the year and now hes not a real LF?

A real 3B? Everybody complains about KW dealing away all the prospects and when he does let one develop, this is what happens

A real Catcher, what about Pierzynski?

 

[Capt. Serious]

As much as I like Morel, I just don't see him as the long term answer at 3B.

We need a guy with more power from that position.

 

[DewsSox79]

As much as I like Morel, I just don't see him as the long term answer at 3B.

We need a guy with more power from that position.

he is a rookie. Like what rongey has stated a million times, we arent thinking about his lack of power if dunn and rios are hitting to the career numbers. They inserted him because of his defense, the sox werent worried about the hitting.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

he is a rookie. Like what rongey has stated a million times, we arent thinking about his lack of power if dunn and rios are hitting to the career numbers. They inserted him because of his defense, the sox werent worried about the hitting.

:clap: If Rios and Dunn could do something Beckham and Morel wouldn't matter. Their defensive excellence would be enough.

 

[Gunzaan]

That's not entirely true. The Sox actually picked Rios up so that the Twins or Tigers didn't get him.

First of all, the Twins didn't have enough cash for him, secondly, the Tigers were probably just a rumor. If the Tigers were smart, they leaked that rumor on purpose.

And we could only WISH that the Tigers would have picked him up!

 

[Gunzaan]

Sure, hes made mistakes as a GM, which one hasnt? but fire him ... C'mon

He has made a lot more then most. He gambles way too often. If he was in another high-media market, he would have been fired by now.

failed miserably, i think thats a bit strong on Rios end, hes had a bad season but he did well last year, could he possibly rebound next year, I dont see why not.

For the money that Rios makes, yes, failed miserably.

I agree Stewart, more than likely, wont be better than EJax but he strengthed the farm system and the 'pen and got Teahen and his contract to go away, overall a good move imo.

It wasn't a horrible move, no, but KW shouldn't be given a ton of credit for it, considering all of the bad moves he has made that have had a larger impact on the club. This was just a minor move.

Nobody has blinders on about KW. This is the same GM that signed Esteban Loaiza, Phil Humber got Jake Peavy and Carlos Quentin for next to nothing and took a risk and traded for Sergio Santos to haave him converted him to a pitcher

Living in the past. Loaiza was years ago. Humber is nothing to write home about. He had a great beginning but hitters have caught up to him, so whoop-de-do. Jake Peavy for next to nothing? Clayton Richards isn't bad and the contract that Peavy signed is way too much money for a 75 pitch-per-start pitcher. Imagine the type of REAL pitcher we could have if we didn't have Peavy.

"the last 3+ years have mostly turned out to be a big pile of shit", I think your blinders only allow you to see the bad

You haven't named anything GOOD that has happened in the past 3 years. Santos and Quentin were more then 3 years ago.

 

[Gunzaan]

at post and anyone who thanks his post.

And this statement is exactly why you are a prick sometimes. Okay, I knew you weren't going to agree with me from the start, and that's cool, we don't agree on the subject. But for your rebuttal, you quote my statement and your first counter is a rolleyes at this post and anyone who thanks it. What a fucking ****** bag. Atleast I admit it when I get in a bad mood sometimes, and will apologize for being a dick. You, on the other hand, are just a flat out arrogant ***** most of the time.

Lets look at these moves KW has made.

Bad:
Alex Rios ( block attempt at the tigers failed ) HUGE fail for the $$$ involved
Peavy ( only because he was on the DL when we traded for him HUGE fail for the $$$ involved & the fact that he can only throw 75 pitches before bombing
Swisher ( When we traded him away after his awful season ) ( Well documented this was a player that Ozzie did not like and wanted off the team) So count that as a "bad" ozzie move Not a big problem with this
Letting Thome Go, thats all on ozzie. Again it is documented.Pretty BIG mistake. Blaming it on Ozzie is weaksauce. KW is the GM. Have some fucking balls and keep your manager in line.
Scott Linebrink- Too much money
You are also forgetting getting rid of Hudson and Gonzalez. Gio made the all-star team this year on a horrible team and Hudson is having a stellar year on a first place team. Both of them would have made us never even think of EJax and Peavy. Imagine the better record and the money saved to spent elsewhere we could of had with those two!

Indifferent:
Ejax- Again for the 10000000th time, we got him to flip for Dunn Last year. and Rizzo backed out. We traded away a NL above avg pitcher in Daniel Hudson, who at best is a number 4 in the AL with the Sox.Hudson is a VERY good pitcher who would be the #2 on the Sox. I understand we got him to flip for Dunn, but it's KW's blame to take when shit like that doesn't work out. Why don't you people want to hold the GM accountable when he fucks up?
Manny- desperate for a bat Agreed, indifferent. We did waste a few million on him, but whatever, I'm not going to make a big point out of that.

Adam Dunn cannot be blamed on KW. This, obviously, belongs on the top of the "Bad" list. KW took the risk on the asshole, KW should be one of the ones to take the blame. Since when are we not holding GM's accountable for their job description. A GM is DEFINED by how well the talent they draft, sign and trade for performs on the field. WTF don't you get about this?

Before this year Dunn's career was .250 BA .381 OBP .902 OPS

So the fans who want to blame KW now are the same ones who were stroking his **** when he signed him. Looking at those numbers, if it could be redone, I would tell KW to do it again. I've never stroked his ****, and I certainly never gave him praise for signing Dunn. I was "meh" about it.

But let me guess, you are still mad because Carlos Lee got traded for Luis Vizcaino and Scott Podsednik, and letting Maggs go right? even though we won the WS without those tools. Bring up the past argument, sure. I don't even HAVE to go back that far anymore to point out how KW's gambles don't work out in the past 3 years. There is a reason why there is no "good" column for the past 3 years in your response. HE DOESN"T HAVE ONE.

I guess KW did a horrible job signing Tadihito, signing Jenks, trading mccarthy for jon danks and nick masset, Getting CQ....oh and joe borchard for matt thornton...taking a chance on AJ ETC ETC.

I am really tired of arguing about this with you. After I read your first comment, of rolleyes at this post and anyone that thanks it, I really think you have your head up your ass.

1. I don't even have to bring up the bad moves he has made in the distant past. I am looking at the last ~3 years. There is a reason you don't have a "good" column for these past years. He hasn't done anything good.

2. You don't hold a GM responsible for his job. Anyone he drafts, signs or otherwise brings in should be a reflection on the GM's ability to see talent and gamble. The past 3 years have been P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

3. You blame Ozzie for some of these moves. KW is the GM, KW is Ozzie's boss. KW decides whether or not to listen to Ozzie. KW needs some balls and a new job if he lets Ozzie decide things for him.

4. Peavy and Dunn are KW's fault. He gambled on them and it has been a horrible failure not only on the field, but inhibiting the Sox to make more moves because of the large amount of $$ wasted on them.

Stop making excuses, it is the weakest shit I have seen in awhile. There is no defense for what KW has done in the past 3 years. Bringing up shit on how KW acquired someone for the 2005 team is so old and living in the past. I'm looking at the 2011, 2012 and 2013 teams and quite frankly, I don't want KW being the GM of those teams.

 

[Gunzaan]

I can see both sides of this. I think Williams has taken some big gambles recently, and none of them have really worked out. But he did put together a pretty good team when the White Sox won the World Series. They weren't loaded with talent, but they were solid in almost every area.

The issues I have is with people making excuses for Williams' poor moves by blaming Ozzie and Greg Walker. I think thats a cop-out. Also, if you are going to blame Ozzie for getting rid of Thome, then you have to praise Ozzie for winning a World Series with good-not-great talent.

I think what hurts Williams is that most of his bad moves have occurred recently, and his moves have been so astoundingly bad that you can't find a silver lining. Dunn has been historically bad. Sure, no one could have predicted this, but if Dunn isn't hitting HRs he has no value. Rios is terrible and he's making a lot of money. Peavy has been a disaster, both performance-wise and finance-wise.

Williams' actions are indefensible, yet some people are sugar-coating everything. I think the only thing that saves Williams is his overall history. But I would be against his firing.

Quoted for TRUTH. Well said and more elequantly then I have said things. I'm just tired of this argument and certain people frustrate me to no end.

Well said! :clap:

 

[DewsSox79]

I am really tired of arguing about this with you. After I read your first comment, of rolleyes at this post and anyone that thanks it, I really think you have your head up your ass.

1. I don't even have to bring up the bad moves he has made in the distant past. I am looking at the last ~3 years. There is a reason you don't have a "good" column for these past years. He hasn't done anything good.

2. You don't hold a GM responsible for his job. Anyone he drafts, signs or otherwise brings in should be a reflection on the GM's ability to see talent and gamble. The past 3 years have been P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

3. You blame Ozzie for some of these moves. KW is the GM, KW is Ozzie's boss. KW decides whether or not to listen to Ozzie. KW needs some balls and a new job if he lets Ozzie decide things for him.

4. Peavy and Dunn are KW's fault. He gambled on them and it has been a horrible failure not only on the field, but inhibiting the Sox to make more moves because of the large amount of $$ wasted on them.

Stop making excuses, it is the weakest shit I have seen in awhile. There is no defense for what KW has done in the past 3 years. Bringing up shit on how KW acquired someone for the 2005 team is so old and living in the past. I'm looking at the 2011, 2012 and 2013 teams and quite frankly, I don't want KW being the GM of those teams.

Right, because signing a guy with a .250 BA and a .381 OBP with a .902 OPS is KWs fault. ok.

you are kinda arguing about a whole lot of nothing. so what, he made a bad move with rios and peavy...i get it. Tell me one GM who doesnt blow money on a bad player here and there or make bad moves.

Do you honestly think KW doesnt want ozzie fired? cmon now, you should know a thing or two about JR.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I can see both sides of this. I think Williams has taken some big gambles recently, and none of them have really worked out. But he did put together a pretty good team when the White Sox won the World Series. They weren't loaded with talent, but they were solid in almost every area.

The issues I have is with people making excuses for Williams' poor moves by blaming Ozzie and Greg Walker. I think thats a cop-out. Also, if you are going to blame Ozzie for getting rid of Thome, then you have to praise Ozzie for winning a World Series with good-not-great talent.

I think what hurts Williams is that most of his bad moves have occurred recently, and his moves have been so astoundingly bad that you can't find a silver lining. Dunn has been historically bad. Sure, no one could have predicted this, but if Dunn isn't hitting HRs he has no value. Rios is terrible and he's making a lot of money. Peavy has been a disaster, both performance-wise and finance-wise.

Williams' actions are indefensible, yet some people are sugar-coating everything. I think the only thing that saves Williams is his overall history. But I would be against his firing.

i do kind of agree on both sides...that you cant really say williams has no control over these situations and has absolutely no blame...williams should be able to get players who will fit on the team...when there's a correlation of bad moves going on...something may be up

although i do think ozzie and walker need to go...that needs to be william's priority in the offseason if he wants to atleast try to get some fruitful production out of some of his signings and moves

ozzie as the Sox manager has a sub .500 record after the all star game..is that right?

not really a huge supporting stat to the argument itself, but just a note..

frankly, i think ozzie has overstayed his welcome, and again,i have said this before, it isnt as if ozzie is overwhelmingly resisting to be let go...

i'm saying that i think more of the blame is on walker and ozzie..but williams still should be held somewhat accountable

but should williams be fired? i do not think so

 

[HawkyTalky]

Dear Mr. Reinsdorf: PLEASE FIRE KW!!

I know it'll never happen and it's the dream to end all dreams but I wish Jerry would take a cue from the Cubs and do some front office cleaning of our own.