Time For "The Great" Kenny Williams To Go?

[Gunzaan]

Dont bring up Ejax again for hudson Joe. he was traded to be flipped for Dunn. Daniel Hudson. oh who has a 3.76 ERA and a WHIP of 1.26 with a 6.8 k/9. How does that look in the AL?

You cannot use Dunn unless you are a casual fan who doesnt follow baseball at all. a career .250 hitter .381 OBP and a .902 OPS who is in their prime. Sorry I still make the signing.

Both of these are legitimate gripes. EJax as SUPPOSED to be flipped for Dunn. It didn't happen, that's the GM's fault. Losing Hudson was a big negative. He is a solid pitcher.

And I certainly can use Dunn as a gripe and I am more then a casual fan. The dude NEVER played DH in his career. It takes a certain type of baseball player to play DH. It's a tough position because you sit on the bench for 95% of the game. They obviously didn't look at Dunn's mental make up before signing him, which they should have done.

I could easily say that to disregard both of those issues as non-issues is something a casual fan would do because you aren't looking deeper into the situation. The blame for both of those, Rios and Peavy all fall on KW's shoulders.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Not his fault? Have you seen the moves that he's made in the past three seasons alone that have backfired?

As team president, the state that the farm system is currently in is also his fault as well.

What moves are you talking about? Some are his fault, but not everything is his fault. He has gone after good players that haven't played well here because Greg Walker is awful.

You'll never understand my point anyway. Just go back to watching the Hawks. You'll be happy with them. They win.

 

[DewsSox79]

We disagreed earlier here in this thread I believe. Of course you fire Williams for last years Dunn fiasco. He couldn't make a three way call. Seriously any Sox fan that doesn't count this against Kenny is at a minimum missing the boat

right, because he DIDNT make a 3 way call. If you actually can go back more than 1 day in your memory, you will remember KW stating that there was a deal in place and Rizzo back out of the deal minutes before the deadline.

 

[HawkyTalky]

What moves are you talking about? Some are his fault, but not everything is his fault. He has gone after good players that haven't played well here because Greg Walker is awful.

You'll never understand my point anyway. Just go back to watching the Hawks. You'll be happy with them. They win.

Look at my 1st post in this thread for the idiotic moves that he's made in the last three years.

Swisher...twice?

An injured Peavy?

Picking up Rios and his over-inflated contract on waivers when he was a notorious underachiever even at the time?

Etc. etc. etc.

I never said that everything was all his fault. But he's a MAJOR player in the current state of both the big club and our sorry farm system.

It's time for him to answer for all of these mistakes. An I used to be a staunch KW and Guillen supporter....and the fact that they've changed my mind says ALOT.

 

[DewsSox79]

Both of these are legitimate gripes. EJax as SUPPOSED to be flipped for Dunn. It didn't happen, that's the GM's fault. Losing Hudson was a big negative. He is a solid pitcher.

And I certainly can use Dunn as a gripe and I am more then a casual fan. The dude NEVER played DH in his career. It takes a certain type of baseball player to play DH. It's a tough position because you sit on the bench for 95% of the game. They obviously didn't look at Dunn's mental make up before signing him, which they should have done.

I could easily say that to disregard both of those issues as non-issues is something a casual fan would do because you aren't looking deeper into the situation. The blame for both of those, Rios and Peavy all fall on KW's shoulders.

Solid pitcher in regards to what? He is in the NL West, 3.76 ERA 1.264 Whip 6.8 K/9 in the NL West! How do you think he numbers translate in the ?AL? He isnt an ace in the NL, maybe a "solid" 4th starter.

Dunn hasnt played DH. True. Neither has Adrian Gonzalez.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Look at my 1st post in this thread for the idiotic moves that he's made in the last three years.

Swisher...twice?

An injured Peavy?

Picking up Rios and his over-inflated contract on waivers when he was a notorious underachiever even at the time?

Etc. etc. etc.

I never said that everything was all his fault. But he's a MAJOR player in the current state of both the big club and our sorry farm system.

It's time for him to answer for all of these mistakes. An I used to be a staunch KW and Guillen supporter....and the fact that they've changed my mind says ALOT.

Just look at Swisher now. His faults on the Sox have nothing to do with Kenny. They are because of Greg Walker

Peavy was a year removed from the Cy Young. I would try to get him too. You would be praising Kenny if Peavy turned out to be great.

Rios was picked up so that someone else in our division didn't get an offensive weapon. I bet he would've played better in Minnesota.

Just because the team has a bad couple seasons doesn't mean that everyone should be fired. That logic makes zero sense.

 

[HawkyTalky]

Just look at Swisher now. His faults on the Sox have nothing to do with Kenny. They are because of Greg Walker

Peavy was a year removed from the Cy Young. I would try to get him too. You would be praising Kenny if Peavy turned out to be great.

Rios was picked up so that someone else in our division didn't get an offensive weapon. I bet he would've played better in Minnesota.

Just because the team has a bad couple seasons doesn't mean that everyone should be fired. That logic makes zero sense.

It isn't just the "last couple of years". It's the last 6 years to be exact.

In the last 6 seasons since we won the World Series this team has been mediocre at best.

The 2011 season is the straw that broke the camels back in the last half-decade. The trend is that KW is getting worse as a GM....not better. He's not even living up to his own standards in the last few seasons.

 

[DewsSox79]

was the risk on peavy all that risky? fans need to do their research on the specifics of deals.

Sources say Sox could benefit from insurance on Peavy contract - Chicago Tribune

 

[Skills]

It would get a gambler out of the GM office. We need more stability there. There is a reason 31 other GM's didn't touch Rios with a 10 foot pole. There is a reason why Peavy was on the market for 2 years and we were the team that finally got him.

KW gambles. It paid off in the distant past. It hasn't paid off in the recent past. I would expect the next GM to bring A LOT more stability to the job.

Rios & Peavy are the same two names everyone keeps saying when Rios actually had a decent year last season and Peavy wasn't a legit "gamble". You had to know better than to expect Jake to come here and be the same Cy Young winner that he was years ago in SD. If you didn't your expectations were too high.

I for one like having a gambler as the GM. The bigger the risk sometimes the bigger the reward.

Would you rather have someone who didn't bring in Jake at all and we'd still have either Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia in the rotation?

Would you rather have someone who didn't go get Carlos Quentin from Arizona and we'd still have Jermaine Dye in right field?

A conservative GM like the one you're asking for would NOT have made those moves.

You're asking for stability when the team isn't in a stable position. You want to be consistently in the middle of the pack or do you want someone to make moves to make sure you get ahead? Think about that...

 

[Gunzaan]

Solid pitcher in regards to what? He is in the NL West, 3.76 ERA 1.264 Whip 6.8 K/9 in the NL West! How do you think he numbers translate in the ?AL? He isnt an ace in the NL, maybe a "solid" 4th starter.

Dunn hasnt played DH. True. Neither has Adrian Gonzalez.

Trying to guess how someone would pitch in a different league in a different division is just that... a guess. All I see are solid numbers from Hudson, besides that fact that he is still young, learning and will only get better.

Comparing Gonzalez to Dunn just shows how weak your argument is. One is a player just entering his prime, who hits for average and power and is in the best lineup in the league. The other is someone on the downside of his career and never hit for average. You also fail to point out that Gonzalez plays 1B most of the time for the Red Sox, while Dunn plays DH for the White Sox. Two completley different mind frames are needed for this, but you ignored that part of my statement. A player's mental make-up is a big deal and the White Sox obviously didn't do their due diligence in this area.

 

[Gunzaan]

was the risk on peavy all that risky? fans need to do their research on the specifics of deals.

Sources say Sox could benefit from insurance on Peavy contract - Chicago Tribune

First of all, this just proves that the Sox knew they were getting an injury-prone pitcher when they got him. Smart move. And :clap:, they insured themselves financially if he did pan out to be full of injuries. That doesn't take away from the fact that the money they paid him could actually be used on players for the 2011 team, when they were supposed to be "all in."

 

[Gunzaan]

Rios & Peavy are the same two names everyone keeps saying when Rios actually had a decent year last season and Peavy wasn't a legit "gamble". You had to know better than to expect Jake to come here and be the same Cy Young winner that he was years ago in SD. If you didn't your expectations were too high.

Rios still didn't have a year, last year, worthy of the money the Sox paid him. And who said anything about Peavy being a Cy Young pitcher? How about a pitcher who could be relied on for 15 wins, instead of 3 DL stints a year. That would have been just great, considering the money he is getting paid. You are making excuses for them. The money wrapped up in those two is outrageous and we could be fielding A LOT better team if those contracts didn't financially fuck the team.

I for one like having a gambler as the GM. The bigger the risk sometimes the bigger the reward.

And the bigger the risky, the bigger the failure. Peavy, Rios, Dunn.

Would you rather have someone who didn't bring in Jake at all and we'd still have either Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia in the rotation?

Nah, I'd rather not have Jake at all and instead of Hudson and Gio Gonzalez, which could have been possible if the "gambler" didn't make foolish moves. Or, if you want another scenario, I am sure the Sox could have signed another above average pitcher with the money spent on Peavy.

Would you rather have someone who didn't go get Carlos Quentin from Arizona and we'd still have Jermaine Dye in right field?
Umm... we wouldn't still have Jermaine Dye. He couldn't even make a major league team LAST year. Give me a break. I like Quentin, but we are in a critical stretch run RIGHT NOW and he is slumping so bad that Ozzie benched him last night. That says a lot. Shit, we could have Viciedo in RF if our outfield wasn't clogged up so badly.

A conservative GM like the one you're asking for would NOT have made those moves.

I never said a conservative GM. I said a STABLE GM. I see a lot of GMs around the league making major moves every offseason and around the trade deadline. Every year it happens. Most of them aren't gamblers.

You're asking for stability when the team isn't in a stable position. You want to be consistently in the middle of the pack or do you want someone to make moves to make sure you get ahead? Think about that...

This statement doesn't make sense either. Why isn't the team in a stable position? Because of the GM we have.

No offense, but none of your points make much sense and are shortsighted. You aren't seeing the bigger picture and you assume that other GMs can't make solid moves that aren't gambles. I see examples of them on many teams around the league every day.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

It isn't just the "last couple of years". It's the last 6 years to be exact.

In the last 6 seasons since we won the World Series this team has been mediocre at best.

The 2011 season is the straw that broke the camels back in the last half-decade. The trend is that KW is getting worse as a GM....not better. He's not even living up to his own standards in the last few seasons.

Yeah. You're right. Being in the division race the last 3 years isn't good enough. Don't expect your team to win the fucking world series every year. It doesn't work that way. Bad years happen. Be happy that we actually have a chance.

 

[DewsSox79]

Trying to guess how someone would pitch in a different league in a different division is just that... a guess. All I see are solid numbers from Hudson, besides that fact that he is still young, learning and will only get better.

Comparing Gonzalez to Dunn just shows how weak your argument is. One is a player just entering his prime, who hits for average and power and is in the best lineup in the league. The other is someone on the downside of his career and never hit for average. You also fail to point out that Gonzalez plays 1B most of the time for the Red Sox, while Dunn plays DH for the White Sox. Two completley different mind frames are needed for this, but you ignored that part of my statement. A player's mental make-up is a big deal and the White Sox obviously didn't do their due diligence in this area.

You have also ignored the drop in Frank Thomas his first year as a DH, and that is a hall of famer.

Dunn is in his prime, how old do you think he is? he is 31 just an FYI.

My arguement with Hudson is very logical. Great, he is young. He wouldnt be this ace if he were still with the sox. be real about it.

How can you do a "mental breakdown" of a player who hasnt failed in his career?

I bet you were squirting in your pants that we signed him.

Lets say hypothetically Dunn gets traded ( he wont ) by Aug 31 for salary relief and goes to lets say the Angels, and he starts hitting next year.....there will be a thread about how KW sucks because he got rid of Dunn by the same people who are bashing him now. I would bet my life on that.

 

[icehogfan08]

Wasn't there an article posted that if Dunn isn't playing 1B he can't concentrate because of ADD or something :shrug:

 

[DewsSox79]

not that I could find

 

[icehogfan08]

When the Nats moved Dunn to first base on a daily basis, he made no secret of the fact that he thought it would help him stay focused.

"I've got a real short attention span," he told me one day before a game in 2009, "and sometimes in the outfield the game seemed so far away. I'd have to keep reminding myself how many outs there were and who was on base."

Even then he was dismissive of ever becoming a designated hitter.

"If I had to hit," he said, "then sit and wait 45 minutes before I could hit again I think I'd get bored. I don't see how those guys who do it every day stay focused."

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/315382-post6.html

 

[Gunzaan]

You have also ignored the drop in Frank Thomas his first year as a DH, and that is a hall of famer.

Dunn is in his prime, how old do you think he is? he is 31 just an FYI.

My arguement with Hudson is very logical. Great, he is young. He wouldnt be this ace if he were still with the sox. be real about it.

How can you do a "mental breakdown" of a player who hasnt failed in his career?

I bet you were squirting in your pants that we signed him.

Lets say hypothetically Dunn gets traded ( he wont ) by Aug 31 for salary relief and goes to lets say the Angels, and he starts hitting next year.....there will be a thread about how KW sucks because he got rid of Dunn by the same people who are bashing him now. I would bet my life on that.

Comparing Dunn to Big Frank? ROFL ROFL ROFL. You are talking about a HoFer vs an above average, at best, player.

Adam Dunn is in his prime? It sure doesn't look like that on the field. I also noticed you backed off the ridiculous comparison to Adrian Gonzalez. And how do you do a "mental breakdown" of a player who hasn't failed in his career? Ask him questions, gauge his opinions about playing time, ask former teammates about his reactions to days on the bench, look at his interleague play when he played DH, etc. There are a multitude of ways to measure someone's mental fortitude. And no, I wasn't squirting in my pants when we signed Dunn. I didn't think he would be anything like he has been for the Sox, but it certainly didn't get me excited. I could have never predicted the disaster that it has turned into but that's what can happen when you have a gambler as the GM.

Hudson - How can you not admit that it was just a stupid move? Was it the worst move in the world? No, but looking at it, it backfired. Hudson is a very solid, young pitcher who is only going to improve. EJax was EJax and KW failed to move him for Dunn at the time. I'm not putting the move on par with the disasters that are Dunn, Peavy or Rios, but it was a stupid move, just like the Gio Gonzalez/Swisher move was stupid.

And there is no need to comment on your last paragraph about Dunn possibly getting traded and lighting it up. You will sooner see pigs fly.

At this point, I almost think that KW has naked pictures of you or something.

 

[Gunzaan]

"When the Nats moved Dunn to first base on a daily basis, he made no secret of the fact that he thought it would help him stay focused.

"I've got a real short attention span," he told me one day before a game in 2009, "and sometimes in the outfield the game seemed so far away. I'd have to keep reminding myself how many outs there were and who was on base."

Even then he was dismissive of ever becoming a designated hitter.

"If I had to hit," he said, "then sit and wait 45 minutes before I could hit again I think I'd get bored. I don't see how those guys who do it every day stay focused."

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/315382-post6.html

Excellent find. You would think KW would have done his research on the dude before signing him to a significant contract that is going to hold the Sox back financially for another 3 years after this season mercifully ends.

 

[icehogfan08]

Excellent find. You would think KW would have done his research on the dude before signing him to a significant contract that is going to hold the Sox back financially for another 3 years after this season mercifully ends.

I wouldn't want to have someone who deosn't want to DH come in and be a DH, and has stated he wouldn't want to do it.