Trade deadline/rumors

[CSF77]

My comment was made after reading we brought up a guy who makes the clubhouse laugh. If nobody in the pen can get outs, nobody will be laughing.

We need several pitchers getting people out. Obviously.

So should I have said "acquire 7 new guys"?

Start with one. But don't pitch him every inning. I think Joe will figure that out.

My opinion is they need to lean on Edwards more.

Last 30 games:

Edwards: 1.69 ERA
Rondon: 2.45
Strop: 3.97
Patton: 4.38
Wood: 4.38
Cahill: 4.73
Grimm: 5.87
Warren: 9.64

That is pretty much proof of why I have been banging the gong for Edwards. He has been the most effective pitcher in the pen.

 

[CSF77]

But where Joe has gone:

Cahill: 13.1 IP
Patton: 12.1
Wood: 12.1
Strop: 11.1
Rondon: 11.0
Edwards: 10.2
Warren: 9.1
Grimm: 7.2


So he has noticed Grimm sucking. But he has been putting the rest over Edwards even though Edwards has the strongest ERA. His BAA is at .114 over that span. So this is not a luck issue he is not giving up much.

 

[CSF77]

Sorry, Baez is an overpay for Pomeranz and a fairly substantial one. Pomeranz is having a really good year but he's likely a #3 starter on a championship team and that's if he continues to improve. Baez is a tremendous defender at multiple positions and at worst is a super sub with pop in his bat and at best is a starting player with 30 HR potential and he has 3 more years of control than does Pomeranz.

He may end up a BP arm again. That is what he was before. We don't know if he is just thriving in petco or if his stuff will translate over in smaller parks like Wriggley. Seeing it as a risk, which it is you don't over pay. His value is a mid tier rental with at worse a lefty in the pen post Wood. That doesn't sound like a grand haul to me. Now if he had a proven year as a starter and hit the ASG again his value blows up.

They maybe better off sitting on him for a pay out. If they sell early they themselves may just see it as a luck issue and sell high now.

 

[Diehardfan]

But where Joe has gone:

Cahill: 13.1 IP
Patton: 12.1
Wood: 12.1
Strop: 11.1
Rondon: 11.0
Edwards: 10.2
Warren: 9.1
Grimm: 7.2


So he has noticed Grimm sucking. But he has been putting the rest over Edwards even though Edwards has the strongest ERA. His BAA is at .114 over that span. So this is not a luck issue he is not giving up much.

It's damn shame about Grimm. It's almost like they're neglecting him. I always claimed he needed a third pitch. From what a I read at Fangraphs, he has one (slider) but hasn't thrown one all year. I'd like to know why Bosio doesn't get him to either use the pitch or at least work on it. I really think he'd benefit from it.

 

[brett05]

Sorry, Baez is an overpay for Pomeranz and a fairly substantial one. Pomeranz is having a really good year but he's likely a #3 starter on a championship team and that's if he continues to improve. Baez is a tremendous defender at multiple positions and at worst is a super sub with pop in his bat and at best is a starting player with 30 HR potential and he has 3 more years of control than does Pomeranz.

Right now that's the cost of starting pitching.
We can agree to disagree tho. :hi5:

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

No way we're giving up Baez for Pomperantz.

 

[SilenceS]

This was a real post on CBS. This is why I cant speak to Cubs fans sometimes. I also noticed its always the older guys that have no understanding of metrics, so they believe they are just made up.

hollanderms
26 minutes ago

Best pitcher without giving up a ton. You know what you get for that? A lame pitcher. Already have some lame pitchers , need a difference maker. Take Pomeranz out of Petco and the Colisseum and he's lame.Baez isn't going to get you a difference maker, he's been average at best all year and now he's making defensive mistakes. Bad situational hitter and making up Sabre Stats isn't going to fool any GM's. Look it's going to cost a ton to get someone who'd make a difference. I'd pay it. Baez value never been lower. Chapman wouldn't cost a ton, and could be whatever you want him to be, this year and beyond. Makes way more sense than Pomeranz or Hill who would be rentals and bad ideas.

 

[brett05]

Baez value has certainly been lower.

 

[SilenceS]

Baez value has certainly been lower.

By a lot, cut his k rate to 23.4. Had had over an .800 OPS 3 out of the 4 months. Hasnt hit under .290 in 3 out of 4 months. Would be on pace for over 30 homers if full time. Has played 1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, and left. Has been the best base runner on the Cubs. Hitting over a 1.000 OPS against lefties. He is still just 23 with what 5 years of control left? Crazy for someone to say his value is at an all time low.

 

[CSF77]

This was a real post on CBS. This is why I cant speak to Cubs fans sometimes. I also noticed its always the older guys that have no understanding of metrics, so they believe they are just made up.

hollanderms
26 minutes ago

Best pitcher without giving up a ton. You know what you get for that? A lame pitcher. Already have some lame pitchers , need a difference maker. Take Pomeranz out of Petco and the Colisseum and he's lame.Baez isn't going to get you a difference maker, he's been average at best all year and now he's making defensive mistakes. Bad situational hitter and making up Sabre Stats isn't going to fool any GM's. Look it's going to cost a ton to get someone who'd make a difference. I'd pay it. Baez value never been lower. Chapman wouldn't cost a ton, and could be whatever you want him to be, this year and beyond. Makes way more sense than Pomeranz or Hill who would be rentals and bad ideas.

I can see the point made for park factor. Oak and SD are known for suppressing runs. If I am in a Park known for run generation I'm either looking for raw stuff or a track record.

 

[CSF77]

By a lot, cut his k rate to 23.4. Had had over an .800 OPS 3 out of the 4 months. Hasnt hit under .290 in 3 out of 4 months. Would be on pace for over 30 homers if full time. Has played 1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, and left. Has been the best base runner on the Cubs. Hitting over a 1.000 OPS against lefties. He is still just 23 with what 5 years of control left? Crazy for someone to say his value is at an all time low.

He is more of a ball player. Before he was toolsy with HR power and SO issues. He has found more of a middle of the road.

D wise he was just a plus arm with a hole in his glove. That is far removed from what he is now.

I believe he would start anywhere on most team's IF. That just points to the talent level that Theo has put on the field that he is even a 6th man.

 

[CSF77]

Right now that's the cost of starting pitching.
We can agree to disagree tho. :hi5:

True. I believe you have to get either a track record or top end potential if you deal your blue chips. You are better off going after low cost reclaim projects if a team is over selling.

 

[brett05]

True. I believe you have to get either a track record or top end potential if you deal your blue chips. You are better off going after low cost reclaim projects if a team is over selling.

I am with you.

two things tho
1) In the last 20 years Cubs MI's are extremely overvalued by their fans and sometimes management (Castro)
2) It seems this is the new price of pitching. There has been no correction to it since Miller so it wouldn't be an over sell at all.

 

[CSF77]

I am with you.

two things tho
1) In the last 20 years Cubs MI's are extremely overvalued by their fans and sometimes management (Castro)
2) It seems this is the new price of pitching. There has been no correction to it since Miller so it wouldn't be an over sell at all.

Miller is a proven commodity. If Baez was involved with him I agree with it from a value standpoint.

I don't agree with weakening 1 area of the roster to strengthen another. That nets no gain.

 

[brett05]

Miller is a proven commodity. If Baez was involved with him I agree with it from a value standpoint.

I don't agree with weakening 1 area of the roster to strengthen another. That nets no gain.

Baez could have been involved with Miller but at that time of the trade he would have not been the main piece.

 

[Parade_Rain]

This was a real post on CBS. This is why I cant speak to Cubs fans sometimes. I also noticed its always the older guys that have no understanding of metrics, so they believe they are just made up.

hollanderms
26 minutes ago

Best pitcher without giving up a ton. You know what you get for that? A lame pitcher. Already have some lame pitchers , need a difference maker. Take Pomeranz out of Petco and the Colisseum and he's lame.Baez isn't going to get you a difference maker, he's been average at best all year and now he's making defensive mistakes. Bad situational hitter and making up Sabre Stats isn't going to fool any GM's. Look it's going to cost a ton to get someone who'd make a difference. I'd pay it. Baez value never been lower. Chapman wouldn't cost a ton, and could be whatever you want him to be, this year and beyond. Makes way more sense than Pomeranz or Hill who would be rentals and bad ideas.

At least Hollanderms has finally figured out that Boyd is the idiot causing the strife on that forum. It only took him a year.

 

[SilenceS]

At least Hollanderms has finally figured out that Boyd is the idiot causing the strife on that forum. It only took him a year.

Lol I like how he keeps trying to say shit and they just delete it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Parade_Rain]

Lol I like how he keeps trying to say shit and they just delete it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And his flock of followers bought into his lie that I was the culprit. LOL. It's definitely a CBS mod.

 

[CSF77]

Not a fan of that site after they gutted the forums and put them on the front page.

But it figures Boyd would cancer it yet again after he cancers every forum he goes to.

 

[CSF77]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jul/12/padres-pomeranz-drawing-trade-interest-rangers/


Said his value is less than Profar. I agree with that. SD would have to add to get him in return. So his market value is being defined.