Trade deadline/rumors

[brett05]

I have never said i don't follow the AL.

I think Sale is very, very good, and I would love to have him.

I did not realize the Sox were so good and so deep that McKinney would not make their team ever. Guess the Yanks are much worse. And, yes, Warren has no chance of making their roster. Not when you've got James Shields!

No, I don't expect Sale to go for peanuts, but I will bet anything that IF he gets traded it will be for far less than what you expect.

But if you think Hector Rondon would bring the same return as Chapman, I don't know what else there is to discuss.

Wow. You got really lost here.

You follow the AL. That is good.

McKinney isn't better than what they have thus his value which isn't high is less in a trade for Sale.
Have you not seen Shields pitch? You are too hung up on three or four bad starts in a row instead of start after start of QS.

I expect a lot more, the offer that we get will be less, but more than you offer by a lot.

And the man is named Carlos Rodon. The offer gets you him from the White Sox.

 

[beckdawg]

Ok here's another question. If you're going to pull this sort of trade for Chapman A) why weren't they interested in the offseason when he was significantly cheaper and B) could they not have made a trade for Craig Kimbrel instead? Even if you thought Grimm would be 2015 Grimm, the bullpen was essentially the same last year. Torres and McKinney are probably similar value prospects to the two big ones in Javier Guerra and Manny Margot that SD got for Kimbrel. They also got Logan Allen(50 grade) and Carlos Asuaje(45 grade). So, the price point is kind of similar to what the Red Sox paid for Kimbrel but A) Kimbrel didn't beat up his girlfriend as far as I know and B) Kimbrel is signed for 2 more years at $13.25 and $13 mil.

I don't know... guess we'll see if there's more than meets the eye but I don't get it.

 

[TL1961]

Chapman as closer allows Montgomery and Wood to face LH earlier without Joe having to play them in LF in a playoff game.

Cubs will have lots of flexibility for matchups with those 2 LH plus Strop and Edwards and Grimm and Nathan.

ALL before you even get to Rondon and Chapman.

It also allows one of Rondon/Chapman to close one day, and the other is fresh the following day. (Thinking Regular season here)

It's the Nasty Boys model.

 

[TL1961]

Wow. You got really lost here.

You follow the AL. That is good.

McKinney isn't better than what they have thus his value which isn't high is less in a trade for Sale.
Have you not seen Shields pitch? You are too hung up on three or four bad starts in a row instead of start after start of QS.

I expect a lot more, the offer that we get will be less, but more than you offer by a lot.

And the man is named Carlos Rodon. The offer gets you him from the White Sox.

It's cute how you tell Cub fans they overvalue their guys, but you think your nonplayoff team is chock full of hall of famers.

 

[brett05]

It's cute how you tell Cub fans they overvalue their guys, but you think your nonplayoff team is chock full of hall of famers.

I have yet to name a hall of famer on the White Sox. For your age you would think you could stay on topic.

Based on what just happened with the Cubs, Yes, I've shown you how insufficient your trade offer was for Sale.

 

[FirstTimer]

Ok here's another question. If you're going to pull this sort of trade for Chapman A) why weren't they interested in the offseason when he was significantly cheaper and B) could they not have made a trade for Craig Kimbrel instead? Even if you thought Grimm would be 2015 Grimm, the bullpen was essentially the same last year. Torres and McKinney are probably similar value prospects to the two big ones in Javier Guerra and Manny Margot that SD got for Kimbrel. They also got Logan Allen(50 grade) and Carlos Asuaje(45 grade). So, the price point is kind of similar to what the Red Sox paid for Kimbrel but A) Kimbrel didn't beat up his girlfriend as far as I know and B) Kimbrel is signed for 2 more years at $13.25 and $13 mil.

I don't know... guess we'll see if there's more than meets the eye but I don't get it.

A.) Maybe the looming suspension scared them off or Chapman wasn't interested in the Cubs either at that time.

B.) Is it a fact the Cubs weren't involved or called about Kimbrel? Maybe the Padres didn't like any offer the Cubs floated etc?

 

[beckdawg]

A.) Maybe the looming suspension scared them off or Chapman wasn't interested in the Cubs either at that time.

B.) Is it a fact the Cubs weren't involved or called about Kimbrel? Maybe the Padres didn't like any offer the Cubs floated etc?

Perhaps. Just doesn't seem like the cubs did much to improve their bullpen this offseason and now seem like they are rather surprised it didn't work out so much so that they are paying a crap ton to "fix" the "problem". Like I've said above I get why people like Chapman but when I see this deal I see basically no chance of the cubs dealing for a young starter. I mean maybe you could offer Soler + Happ + Candelario for someone but I can't imagine it would be a legitimate #1 starter giving the insane prospect prices these days. If for whatever reason Underwood, De La Cruz, Cease and Albertos don't work out the cubs are going to be in trouble. And that's a rather scary thought when Underwood is the only one above A ball and he's already had nagging injuries.

 

[FirstTimer]

Perhaps. Just doesn't seem like the cubs did much to improve their bullpen this offseason and now seem like they are rather surprised it didn't work out so much so that they are paying a crap ton to "fix" the "problem"..

FWIW aside from Torres I don't really hold any of the other guys the Cubs gave up in high regard.

Vogelbach never had a future with the Cubs and was always a guy who was going to be traded at some point. I don't really view the Cubs as giving up a crap ton personally. Just my take/feeling though. The only guy I really feel like they gave up who had any real possible future impact was Torres. Other than that...meh.

 

[beckdawg]

FWIW aside from Torres I don't really hold any of the other guys the Cubs gave up in high regard.

Vogelbach never had a future with the Cubs and was always a guy who was going to be traded at some point. I don't really view the Cubs as giving up a crap ton personally. Just my take/feeling though. The only guy I really feel like they gave up who had any real possible future impact was Torres. Other than that...meh.

I don't mind the Montgomery trade. I think that was fair value for Vogelbach. As for the players in the Chapman deal, Crawford is whatever. At best he might be a 4th/5th OF. Warren is also slightly more than that to me. He's probably a valuable 4th or 5th starter on a non-contending team. Obviously that doesn't describe the present day cubs but that's not to say he doesn't have value for someone. He's cheap and as a starter he played well. As for McKinney, I care less about him in terms of the cubs future and more about just the total package of value they are giving up. It's unlikely McKinney would play for the cubs but again like Vogelbach he had value as a piece the cubs could use.

For Torres, I really dislike him in the deal. If you swap him and say Candelario I'd be more or less fine with the other 3 guys in it. I think Torres rather quickly will be talked about in the same realm as Russell was. And he very well could have played 2B for the cubs once Zobrist is out. So, it's not as though he was blocked. Personally, I wouldn't have dealt him at all and instead groom him as Zobrist's replacement. But if he had to go for whatever reason the cubs felt, I at least wanted it to be for a starter.

Perhaps there's a view point the cubs see that I don't in which case hey that's great. But just judging from the looks at first glance you're paying a steep price for a 2 month rental with no guarantee of re-signing him. Seems like there's a high chance that this goes from a no great value deal to absolutely horrific deal if they can't re-sgin him and bomb out in the playoffs for whatever reason. In many ways it reminds me of the trade the A's made for Shark. But the difference here is the A's aren't necessarily a team that can sit back and be patient. The cubs other than impending issues with their starting rotation should be able to give things a solid chance for the next 5-7 years. So from that stand point I dislike going for "all in" plays.

 

[Ari Bear]

I think Torres rather quickly will be talked about in the same realm as Russell was. And he very well could have played 2B for the cubs once Zobrist is out. So, it's not as though he was blocked. Personally, I wouldn't have dealt him at all and instead groom him as Zobrist's replacement.

Baez will be replacing Zorbrist at 2b once he's out. There is no room for Torres on the Cubs now, next year or 5 years from now.

 

[anotheridiot]

Baez will be replacing Zorbrist at 2b once he's out. There is no room for Torres on the Cubs now, next year or 5 years from now.

Happ was going to beat Torres here anyway, and he will have a better shot at second than Baez. Right now best plan is to keep Baez at third, Happ at second and Bryant in RF when Heyward opts out, which cannot come soon enough for me.

 

[Diehardfan]

Baez will be replacing Zorbrist at 2b once he's out. There is no room for Torres on the Cubs now, next year or 5 years from now.

So you're saying there's no room for Baez on this years Cubs.

When Zobrist retires, Torres would/could have become the Baez of the 2019 Cubs.


Once again....the trading deadline has become a circle jerk for buyers and a gold mine for sellers.

 

[FirstTimer]

For Torres, I really dislike him in the deal. If you swap him and say Candelario I'd be more or less fine with the other 3 guys in it. .

I'd somewhat agree with you there. I would have rather kept Torres and shipped out Candelario.

I see your point on the overall, I was really looking at the small picture of this isolated deal.

 

[chibears55]

Chapman as a closer means rather little for match ups. You're not going to bring him in during the 6th or 7th inning and that's where they were struggling to begin with. So him being left handed is effectively moot. I can sorta see the idea of having him and Rondon as a match up monster in the 8th/9th innings but again, Rondon and Strop aren't bad there.

As for Rondon not being lock down.... i mean he has a 11.68 k/9 this year. Chapman is at 12.64. Better obviously again but the difference is minimal. Rondon is the 20th best reliever with qualifying innings in k/9. Think you're selling him short. Also for what it's worth, Strop is 18th in k/9. Edwards doesn't qualify yet because of innings but he's 10.29. They already have a very talented 7th-9th. They just aren't the names people are used to seeing yet because the cubs have been terrible for several years.

Now they have
wood for the 6th/7th
Montgomery for the 7th/8th
Chapman for 8th/9th

As LHers out of pen...

All set to go come playoff when facing the Nats or Giants if needed in those innings to get their big LH hitters out...

That what getting Chapman does for them

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[Ari Bear]

So you're saying there's no room for Baez on this years Cubs.

When Zobrist retires, Torres would/could have become the Baez of the 2019 Cubs.


Once again....the trading deadline has become a circle jerk for buyers and a gold mine for sellers.

I can buy Torres as a possible utility guy. Baez though as I see it will be at 2b unless they try to develope him for CF like they were gonna do in the off season when they thought they were going to lose Fowler. As for buyers and sellers. I think most of us knew we would probably over pay for Chapman or Miller. Im fine with the trade. I didn't want us trading Schwarber for Miller.

 

[chibears55]

So you're saying there's no room for Baez on this years Cubs.

When Zobrist retires, Torres would/could have become the Baez of the 2019 Cubs.


Once again....the trading deadline has become a circle jerk for buyers and a gold mine for sellers.

Im sure they will find another Torres by 2019 via trade Draft or IFA

I agree about the deadline but isn't it somewhat how the cubs got some of their key players by by flipping guys at deadline. .
When youre trying to win it all, these are the deals you make to strengthen your team

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[Ari Bear]

Im sure they will find another Torres by 2019 via trade Draft or IFA

I agree about the deadline but isn't it somewhat how the cubs got some of their key players by by flipping guys at deadline. .
When youre trying to win it all, these are the deals you make to strengthen your team

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From what I heard Theo an Hoyer are gonna keep stacking these type of prospects in the minors, ya know the Russell/Torres type. I trust these guys cuz of how they have built the Cubs since they arrived here.

 

[CSF77]

9th: Chapman
8th: Rondon
7th: Strop/Wood
6th: Edwards, Nathan, Montgomery

I'm feeling like no team will want to face this.


On the deal. Torres is blocked behind Russell and Baez. That trade pretty much said you two are the future.

Warren was plain bad in the pen and barely a 6th starter. My thinking is the Yanks are selling and will need a filler starter.

McKenny: again blocked by Schwarber in LF. Add to it he was the toss in. Russell was the key player in that deal.

Last guy never heard of before. No comment.

The thing is. Yes Theo over paid. There is no arguing that point but it came from areas that were not a issue losing said player.

If anything it means Theo is all in in 2016. I don't think he is done at all.

We like to speculate about Sale. And he is well worth a ransom. If it happens it would be centered around Hendricks, Soler, Almora and Candiero. These guys have all logged in MLB time so adding them to a rebuild is not a huge issue for the Sox. Cubs problem could add in 1 quality SP prospect and a fringe to end it. Again a over pay but it means Jake becomes your #2 starter and most teams can't match that impact.

 

[beckdawg]

Baez will be replacing Zorbrist at 2b once he's out. There is no room for Torres on the Cubs now, next year or 5 years from now.

Entirely probably you could see Heyward opt out, Bryant -> RF, Baez -> 3B. Admittedly they still have Candelario but I like Torres' bat far more than his.

As for Happ as others have mentioned, people are just assuming he'll transition well to 2B. He's not a natural MI. He was drafted originally as a OF and the cubs moved him there in instructs largely cuz he can't play CF really and his bat doesn't profile well in the corners. Suppose it's all a moot point now but I'd still rather have Torres. Think he's equal in terms of his bat and a better defender.

 

[brett05]

9th: Chapman
8th: Rondon
7th: Strop/Wood
6th: Edwards, Nathan, Montgomery

I'm feeling like no team will want to face this.


On the deal. Torres is blocked behind Russell and Baez. That trade pretty much said you two are the future.

Warren was plain bad in the pen and barely a 6th starter. My thinking is the Yanks are selling and will need a filler starter.

McKenny: again blocked by Schwarber in LF. Add to it he was the toss in. Russell was the key player in that deal.

Last guy never heard of before. No comment.

The thing is. Yes Theo over paid. There is no arguing that point but it came from areas that were not a issue losing said player.

If anything it means Theo is all in in 2016. I don't think he is done at all.

We like to speculate about Sale. And he is well worth a ransom. If it happens it would be centered around Hendricks, Soler, Almora and Candiero. These guys have all logged in MLB time so adding them to a rebuild is not a huge issue for the Sox. Cubs problem could add in 1 quality SP prospect and a fringe to end it. Again a over pay but it means Jake becomes your #2 starter and most teams can't match that impact.

Rather have Baez than Candy. But it's an awfully close offer.