Trade deadline/rumors

[beckdawg]

Hmm let's hope there is at least an extention on Chapman

I mean I can't imagine you trade Torres without having an extension in place.

 

[chibears55]

Sahadev Sharma @sahadevsharma
Hearing names are done, Torres the big fish from Cubs, but more being sent to Yanks. If finalized, Cubs get only Chapman.

Just saw this... I read Jiminez was other name

If Jiminez is indeed involved i hope it for more then Chapman, especially if he not extended...


But this goes to show how we get all kinds of rumors with everyone having sources..
This guy says cubsbonly get chapman, the one I posted had other Yankees involved...

I hope this gets done b4 I go to bed, cause I know I'll be waking up checking for updates all night

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[Shawon0Meter]

Baseball America's most recent rankings had Torres and Jimenez as the #1 and #3 prospect the Cubs have. This is getting silly. How was another team even close to this?

 

[chibears55]

Baseball America's most recent rankings had Torres and Jimenez as the #1 and #3 prospect the Cubs have. This is getting silly. How was another team even close to this?

I'm reading all different names etc on Twitter

So, guess instead of getting up or down about names involved just wait til it becomes official

One says other Yankees involved another says it just Chapman..
One says Soler another says Jiminez

So.. We shall see

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[greg23]

No fking way you trade torres AND jiminez for 3 month OR 3 years of chapman.

Torres and parts...sure.... but jiminez has potential to be a stud rf for us in 1-2 years.

 

[beckdawg]

Now hearing it might be Torres + Candelario + Warren. At this point I'm at a loss. Like I get why you would want Chapman. He's probably as dominant a reliever as is out there. But to give up a potential all-star in Torres, a starter in Candelario and a back end rotation guy for a reliever is beyond insane to me. I also don't agree with the idea that "if the cubs win the world series it doesn't matter." An over pay now limits your ability to sustain success. Let's be realistic here, the cubs don't have long term options figure out for their pitching staff and you're going to need a number of prospects if you intend to make a trade. If you instead intend to sign FA you need money. You also will have to use money to pay your young hitters.

To put Chapman's value in context.... the Yankees gave up Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo, Tony Renda and Caleb Cotham for him. Davis is a 50 grade prospect and is Cincy's #11 prospect. Jagielo is a 45 grade prospect and is their #13 prospect. The other two aren't even ranked. Now sure the Yanks bought low but Candelario is prboably more valuable than Davis and then on top of that you're getting Torres who's a top 30 prospect and Warren?

Edit: welp....
Sahadev Sharma
‏@sahadevsharma
Candelario rumors are false, he is not a part of the Chapman deal.

 

[beckdawg]

Dan Szymborski ✔ @DSzymborski
The Cubs are 55-1 going into the 9th with lead, 53-1 going into 8th, 53-5 into 7th. The upside for *any* reliever add is limited.

 

[TL1961]

It's about the playoffs, not just the remainder of the regular season.

And adding Chapman and Montgomery makes the pen much deeper, much much less vulnerable, and shortens the game for the opponent.

Get 6 IP from your starter and you're a tough team. That hasn't been the case before. I like Wood and Strop and Rondon. But they aren't lights out. This pen may be if this deal goes through.

 

[DanTown]

Dan Szymborski ✔ @DSzymborski
The Cubs are 55-1 going into the 9th with lead, 53-1 going into 8th, 53-5 into 7th. The upside for *any* reliever add is limited.

That's not why teams get guys like Chapman, to hold leads. You get guys like Chapman to move everyone down a slot in the bullpen and to keep tied games tied/close if you're losing. If you get Chapman, then you can use a guy like Edwards or Strop in the fifth/sixth when you aggressively need a strikeout. Case in point would be today's game. You probably can't afford to use Edwards or Strop in the fifth but in a situation like that, you'd like to use one of your better K pitchers to get the outs.

 

[Diehardfan]

The buyer is always at a huge disadvantage when you deal at the deadline. The Yankee deal to get Chapman was made in the off season. I loved it when the Cubs were sellers...not real in love with it now.

Deadline trades are just like a fast food drive thru.....as Joe Pesche says everyone gets "Fucked at the drive thru" .

 

[czman]

When the Cubs lost to the Mets last season in the playoffs, the Cubs never led any game. That is the problem with a relief pitcher. His value is too limited and his control to short to give up much long term value for him.

The bullpen has been good enough this year most of the bad stretch that happened was not the BPs fault. It was the starting Pitching. Honestly I would rather see them go after a top tier starter.

This trade smells a bit of panic. They are 7 up in the win column and 6-3 since the break. I hope they don't blow their load on a move like this. I just don't think it gets you that much closer to a WS. He won't pitch enough innings and the team still has other areas that are concerning.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm going to throw out another idea. There's already been reports of the cubs trying to acquire Pomeranz in order to deal him to someone else. It's plausible they could be doing the same thing here for a team that doesn't match up well with the Yankees' wants. Reportedly the Giants are such a team. Additionally, Cleveland would like Chapman but they can't eat all the remaining salary on his deal and the Yankees wont either. Now given the cubs would potentially match up with the Giants, I think a deal there is some what less likely but they do have a couple of interesting arms in Tyler Beede(AA) Sam Coonrod(AA) and Phil Bickford(A+). Cleveland has Brady Aiken who the cubs reportedly like a lot in the 2015 draft as well as Justus Sheffield(A+), Triston McKenzie(A-), Mike Clevinger(AAA), Rob Kaminsky(AA), and Juan Hillman(A-).

All along the front office has talked about acquiring another starter. So, using Torres who's arguably your best trade piece to acquire Chapman just strikes me as odd unless there's more to it than that. Additionally, if the idea of dealing Vogelbach for Montgomery was to relieve the need to overpay for Miller/Chapman, why are they suddenly doing just that? I mean sure I get the idea you are building more depth but if you're going to give up what's being reported now for Chapman, why make the Montgomery move? Presumably he pushes everyone back an inning so you're now talking about Strop in the 7th leaving you numerous other options in the 5th and 6th. At that rate, how often is Montgomery even going to pitch?

 

[Diehardfan]

I'm going to throw out another idea. There's already been reports of the cubs trying to acquire Pomeranz in order to deal him to someone else. It's plausible they could be doing the same thing here for a team that doesn't match up well with the Yankees' wants. Reportedly the Giants are such a team. Additionally, Cleveland would like Chapman but they can't eat all the remaining salary on his deal and the Yankees wont either. Now given the cubs would potentially match up with the Giants, I think a deal there is some what less likely but they do have a couple of interesting arms in Tyler Beede(AA) Sam Coonrod(AA) and Phil Bickford(A+). Cleveland has Brady Aiken who the cubs reportedly like a lot in the 2015 draft as well as Justus Sheffield(A+), Triston McKenzie(A-), Mike Clevinger(AAA), Rob Kaminsky(AA), and Juan Hillman(A-).

All along the front office has talked about acquiring another starter. So, using Torres who's arguably your best trade piece to acquire Chapman just strikes me as odd unless there's more to it than that. Additionally, if the idea of dealing Vogelbach for Montgomery was to relieve the need to overpay for Miller/Chapman, why are they suddenly doing just that? I mean sure I get the idea you are building more depth but if you're going to give up what's being reported now for Chapman, why make the Montgomery move? Presumably he pushes everyone back an inning so you're now talking about Strop in the 7th leaving you numerous other options in the 5th and 6th. At that rate, how often is Montgomery even going to pitch?

Interesting theory. But if that's the case, why not do a three-way deal?

 

[beckdawg]

Interesting theory. But if that's the case, why not do a three-way deal?

I mean it could essentially be. Considering how long the news of what the deal actually is going to be is taking maybe that's the reasoning. Usually when you're talking about trades like this and the two big parts already come out it's only a few hours before it's finalized. Granted in the case of Chapman if the cubs are planning on actually keeping him you'd need to negotiate an extension and that could also be why.

 

[beckdawg]

Some what unrelated to the Chapman talk, Saturday Matusz had another strong outting. Since the cubs picked him up over 5 appearances(2 in mesa, 1 in AA, 2 in AAA) he has thrown 17.2 innings giving up 10 hits, 3 ER 6 walks and 23 k's giving him a 1.53 ERA. He's also only given up 2 extra bases hits(a double and a HR).

 

[chibears55]

If the Giants or Nats end up with Chapman
Every game he pitches against Cubs in playoff , you all would be wishing he was with cubs..

Holy cow, I remember last year everyone wishing they had Chapman..
Now they can get him and you all are squirming over it

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[beckdawg]

If the Giants or Nats end up with Chapman
Every game he pitches against Cubs in playoff , you all would be wishing he was with cubs..

Holy cow, I remember last year everyone wishing they had Chapman..
Now they can get him and you all are squirming over it

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Define "everyone." I've not once suggested I wanted him. I didn't want Papelbon last year either. As for the trade happening, I don't particularly like the person that is Chapman but if it were literally only Torres and some less relevant pieces I could probably live with it but that doesn't mean it's a good value and I don't think it honestly makes the cubs much better. The flaw in the logic is that relievers rarely pitch more than an inning. And in order to have that lock down bullpen everyone seemingly wants you can't have anyone in the chain fail. All it takes is for one guy not having his best stuff on a given day and you lose.

Additionally, if Chapman pitches against the cubs then that already means they've failed in some other aspect be it hitting or pitching and he would have done nothing ON the cubs. Ultimately, if your starters throw 6-7 strong innings Chapman shouldn't matter. If your offense scores 4-5 runs he again shouldn't matter. If neither of those two things happen, having Chapman doesn't solve it.

Also for what it's worth, the cubs bullpen has 12 losses. 5 of those come from Warren, Patton, Richard and Peralta and at this point it's doubtful any of those are pitching in the playoffs. Cahill is another 3 and he too may not make the playoff roster. Even still, the cubs bullpen's 12 losses is 8th best in the majors. So as maligned as the cubs bullpen is, it's not even that bad. Their reliever ERA is 14th in the majors despite some of the obvious issues with guys above as well as Grimm not being 2015 Grimm.

 

[Diehardfan]

Define "everyone." I've not once suggested I wanted him. I didn't want Papelbon last year either. As for the trade happening, I don't particularly like the person that is Chapman but if it were literally only Torres and some less relevant pieces I could probably live with it but that doesn't mean it's a good value and I don't think it honestly makes the cubs much better. The flaw in the logic is that relievers rarely pitch more than an inning. And in order to have that lock down bullpen everyone seemingly wants you can't have anyone in the chain fail. All it takes is for one guy not having his best stuff on a given day and you lose.

Additionally, if Chapman pitches against the cubs then that already means they've failed in some other aspect be it hitting or pitching and he would have done nothing ON the cubs. Ultimately, if your starters throw 6-7 strong innings Chapman shouldn't matter. If your offense scores 4-5 runs he again shouldn't matter. If neither of those two things happen, having Chapman doesn't solve it.

I'm not at all adverse to getting him but getting screwed over at the deadline sucks. The Yanks got him for a song, yet the Cubs have to pay up in top notch talent. The reason? Timing of the trade. We watched and grinned while Theo stuck it to Oakland and Baltimore at the deadline...now it's the Cubs turn. Chapman didn't get any better with the Yanks, just a little bit older. Besides, Beck is right. The Cubs biggest problem these days is consistent scoring...unable to do something against some of the most mediocre pitchers in the league. The last time I checked they were last in leaving men on base....not just the National League....last in all of baseball. It would nice if they could fix that. Chapman is great piece to have if you have the lead late...but you might as well have Richard if you're behind.

 

[CSF77]

8:19am: Jorge Soler will not be included in this trade, reports Jon Morosi of MLB.com (on Twitter). George A. King III of the New York Post reports that switch-hitting third baseman Jeimer Candelario could be in play, however

 

[CSF77]

Chapman-> Torres, Candiero