Update On The "Great Moves".

[KBisBack!]

And Delgado, the guy the Cubs would have gotten had Dempster not been a douche has been great for Arizona this year./QUOTE]

Correction.

If someone in the front office had the courtesy to pick up a phone and tell him they had finalized a trade to Atlanta.

 

[The Bandit]

And Delgado, the guy the Cubs would have gotten had Dempster not been a douche has been great for Arizona this year./QUOTE]

Correction.

If someone in the front office had the courtesy to pick up a phone and tell him they had finalized a trade to Atlanta.

Speculation and opinion.

 

[KBisBack!]

Speculation and opinion.

Dempster was actually very public about his displeasure in being blindsided by the media.

He has never been quoted as saying he wouldn't go to Atlanta and in fact was reported by multiple sources as having Atlanta high on his list of teams he would accept a trade to.

What is opinion and speculation is the continued insistence that he didn't want to play in Atlanta and vetoed the trade. He never vetoed the trade.

Accurate as ever.

 

[Franko725]

Dempster was actually very public about his displeasure in being blindsided by the media.

He has never been quoted as saying he wouldn't go to Atlanta and in fact was reported by multiple sources as having Atlanta high on his list of teams he would accept a trade to.

What is opinion and speculation is the continued insistence that he didn't want to play in Atlanta and vetoed the trade. He never vetoed the trade.

Accurate as ever.

This might be semantics, but considering he did not ACCEPT the trade, would that not be considered vetoing the trade?

 

[Parade_Rain]

This might be semantics, but considering he did not ACCEPT the trade, would that not be considered vetoing the trade?

What it also means is that Atlanta wasn't as high on Dempster's list as Dempster originally thought.

 

[JosMin]

Dempster was actually very public about his displeasure in being blindsided by the media.

He has never been quoted as saying he wouldn't go to Atlanta and in fact was reported by multiple sources as having Atlanta high on his list of teams he would accept a trade to.

What is opinion and speculation is the continued insistence that he didn't want to play in Atlanta and vetoed the trade. He never vetoed the trade.

Accurate as ever.

No he didn't -- the three teams he said he would approve a deal to were the Dodgers, who were never able to get traction in negotiations, or the Yankees and Rangers.

The Dodgers were Dempster's top choice, but Dempster told ESPNChicago.com's Bruce Levine shortly before the deadline that he would approve a trade to the Rangers or New York Yankees.

"He held pretty firm on the Dodgers thing. I was actually really glad he was in our office for the last couple of hours and he was able to sort of see how we work and see what happens. He sort of sat in an office and watched himself on TV. Then we sort of briefed him on where we were and I don't remember exactly what time but at some point he said, 'OK, if this Dodgers thing isn't going to work then he was willing to open it up to a handful of teams.' That's why it came together late. We talked to teams a little bit but we weren't going to spend tons of time and lead teams down a road that wasn't going to happen. We didn't want to do that. We had to not scramble but work pretty hard at the end to find a suitable deal for him."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8218905/texas-rangers-land-chicago-cubs-ryan-dempster

The whole fiasco with the Braves fell apart because somebody in their circle leaked that the deal was finalized before any of the players involved were even notified that negotiations were on-going. Dempster was disappointed that it wasn't made known to him that a deal had actually advanced beyond phone conversation. The Cubs were very open with him about negotiations with the Dodgers, but once Hoyer notified him that there was little hope of a deal getting done, they said he was going to stay put, for the time beeing

"As it went down, from my understanding, the Cubs informed him over the last week that the Dodgers weren't really as aggressive as we were, and they thought the deal was going to go with us. I think he was given a heads up along the way. I think it may be the way it was presented as far as coming out in the media. I think that was the blindsiding, not that he didn't necessarily that he didn't know it was coming down."

Once he found out, he reiterated to the Cubs that the three teams he wanted to go to were Dodgers (the deal had already fallen apart earlier in the month), the Yankees, who weren't interested at the time, and the Rangers, who ended up getting his services.

 

[JosMin]

And as many others have already echoed -- he wasn't going to approve a deal to the Braves. He didn't want to play there. The two sides agreed on parameters for a trade, but they never bothered exchanging medical information because Dempster hadn't been informed of the negotiations and then poof -- a guy in the Braves' inner sanctum ran his mouth and squashed what little hop the deal had.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I don't really understand how people can bash Theo so far. In every instance in which a big market team build their farm system they end up being perennial contenders and WS winners.

The evidence is in the history of all these teams.

 

[KBisBack!]

No he didn't -- the three teams he said he would approve a deal to were the Dodgers, who were never able to get traction in negotiations, or the Yankees and Rangers.

Ken Rosenthal reported that the Braves were second on his list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...ine-los-angeles-Dodgers-atlanta-braves-071712

The whole fiasco with the Braves fell apart because somebody in their circle leaked that the deal was finalized before any of the players involved were even notified that negotiations were on-going.

Wrong.

Frank Wren has been quoted multiple times as saying the leak was not from their circle.


Accurate as ever.

 

[KBisBack!]

I don't really understand how people can bash Theo so far. In every instance in which a big market team build their farm system they end up being perennial contenders and WS winners.

The evidence is in the history of all these teams.

Because none of those big market teams completely abandoned the major league team while building their farm system.

They did that silly little BOTH thing. Build their farm systems while making the best possible effort to field competitive major league team.

Those are the facts.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Ken Rosenthal reported that the Braves were second on his list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...ine-los-angeles-Dodgers-atlanta-braves-071712

Ken Rosenthal <> Ryan Dempster.

 

[KBisBack!]

Ken Rosenthal <> Ryan Dempster.

Provide a quote from Ryan Dempster where he says he would not play for Atlanta.

We will wait.

In fact here is a link to an article that quotes Dempster as saying he never turned down the deal and Hoyer agreeing that Dempster refused to go to Atlanta.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/12394/dempster-i-never-turned-down-braves-deal

 

[KBIB]

I've already posted an article proving my point.

You need AHS's Helen Keller skin.

:andruw:

 

[JosMin]

Ken Rosenthal reported that the Braves were second on his list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...ine-los-angeles-Dodgers-atlanta-braves-071712

So then why, after finding out that a deal with the Braves was done, would Dempster nix the deal, regardless if he was in the loop or not? That doesn't make any sense. Frank Wren put a time constraint on him consenting to trade Delgado and when Dempster took too long to decide, he rescinded the deal. The biggest hang-up was that the Braves insisted that Dempster sign an extension as part of an agreement to trade him. They also insisted that the deal be completed within their time restraints. So, the teams had to agree on financial compensation, since the Cubs were going to have to send money over with Dempster, they were going to have to agree on prospects and players switching hands, and have Atlanta negotiate a contract with Dempster, all within a matter of a few days. Seems impossible to me.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/...p_in_the_dempster_deal/11281129?new_post=true


On top of that, when Dempster found out the Braves and Cubs had been closing in on a deal, he still wanted to hold out and see if the Dodgers would make another final push. Dempster eventually warmed up to the idea to going to Atlanta, but felt like after the deal was leaked by somebody in Atlanta, he felt like he wasn't given proper time to weigh all his options.

Cubs general manager Jed Hoyer said Wednesday that Dempster's decision had more to do with wanting to wait as long as possible to see if a deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers -- his preferred destination -- could be worked out rather than a dislike for the Braves.

"We had explained to him for several days before we did that deal that it was going to be the Braves, that they were the most aggressive team," Hoyer said Wednesday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "It wasn't as much a lack of interest in Atlanta, it was just I want to wait until the last possible second to rule out the Dodgers. That was really the crux of it. It wasn't a matter of not wanting Atlanta."

Wrong

Frank Wren has been quoted multiple times as saying the leak was not from their circle.


Accurate as ever.

So you're just going to believe Frank Wren because he wants to save face? Or is it because you'd rather pin a potential error on Epstein and Hoyer? Where are these "multiple quotes" where Frank Wren said that nobody from Atlanta leaked the deal?

 

[JosMin]

In this article, Theo does a good job of breaking everything down. Essentially from what I can gather, Dempster fucked himself over with going to the Dodgers because he wouldn't let it go that they weren't going to increase their offer to the Cubs.

Epstein gave a detailed explanation of the Dempster trade saga, confirming that Dempster was informed of the possibility of being traded to Atlanta 2-3 days before the deal was leaked to the media.

So, Dempster knew about the possibility of a trade before hand, but the talks were obviously premature.

Epstein said Dempster shouldn't be criticized for using his 10-and-5 rights to veto the trade, but conceded it hurt the team's leverage in talks with the Dodgers, who weren't budging. The Cubs wound up getting a lesser deal from Texas, acquiring two Class-A prospects.

"It created a market of one up until about 15 minutes to go (before Tuesday's trade deadline)," Epstein said. "That's just the nature of 10-5 rights. It allows a player to say 'I won't be traded, period.' And Ryan didn't do that.

The Dodgers were smart, knowing that Dempster wanted to go there and after the deal to Atlanta was leaked, they stood on their initial offer and didn't budge. It made total sense on their part. Why give up more if you don't have to?

So Dempster stuck with the longshot of going to L.A., and the Cubs paid the price. Dempster said he never said "no" to the Atlanta deal because he didn't get a chance before the trade was all over the Internet. Epstein said that was not totally correct.

"He didn't technically say 'no,' " Epstein said. "He said 'No, not now. I'm not going to go to Atlanta before I see about L.A.' And Atlanta, very reasonably, didn't want to wait around and risk not getting a pitcher."

And at the end of the day, why should Atlanta wait around for Dempster to make up his mind if he wanted to go there in the first place, when they wanted to start contract negotiations with him? It just ended up not making sense for either the Dodgers or Braves, and the Cubs ended up paying the ultimate price because of Dempster's stead-fast desire to go to the Dodgers.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_1_theo-epstein-ryan-dempster-trade-deadline

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Because none of those big market teams completely abandoned the major league team while building their farm system.

They did that silly little BOTH thing. Build their farm systems while making the best possible effort to field competitive major league team.

Those are the facts.

We did that for several years and it got us 70 wins or so. As a business owner I would not want to spend 120 million a year to get at 70 wins. Our team needed an entire overhaul because it was bad at the major league and bad at the minor league level

STL, BOSTON, NYY, ANA, all those teams that built from within still had good farm systems and good players at the major league level, you are comparing two entirely different scenarios.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Provide a quote from Ryan Dempster where he says he would not play for Atlanta.

Wrong. Mr. Strawman. You need to provide information that Atlanta was Dempster's #2 choice. If he was Dempster's #2 choice as you claim (based upon some unnamed league source quoted by Ken Rosenthal), he wouldn't have had to do too much thinking about playing in Atlanta.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Interesting atricle in Sun-times today.

The Dodgers, of course, have that $6 billion regional TV deal that roughly coincided in timing with the sale of the team.

The Cubs make a fraction of that between a pair of deals with CSNChicago and WGN, and far different market forces at play as they use an opt-out clause to try to leverage the WGN part of the deal starting in 2015.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/21673210-419/theo-cubs-not-able-to-spend-big-like-dodgers.html

 

[KBisBack!]

So then why, after finding out that a deal with the Braves was done, would Dempster nix the deal, regardless if he was in the loop or not?

He DIDN'T nix the deal.

Sorry the facts are too difficult for you to understand.

It has been pointed out plainly and clearly by Ryan Dempster himself as well as Jed Hoyer.

Yet you childishly keep insisting he nixed the deal.

Where are these "multiple quotes" where Frank Wren said that nobody from Atlanta leaked the deal?

Funny how you have no problem finding links and quotes to items that you feel support your stance, but when the facts don't support your incorrect opinion you completely lose the ability to use Google.

Pure trollish.

 

[KBisBack!]

You need to provide information that Atlanta was Dempster's #2 choice.

I already have.

If he was Dempster's #2 choice as you claim (based upon some unnamed league source quoted by Ken Rosenthal), he wouldn't have had to do too much thinking about playing in Atlanta.

In your opinion.

But nice to see you can speak for Mr. Dempster and how he makes his decisions.