Updates to the Kane situation

[CRM 114]

Really? Then let's play a little game - I challenged you once to quote the post where I condoned rape and you never replied. I challenge you again. Either find it or stop trolling.

I would do that but I can't quote posts from locked threads. And you are the reason that thread is locked.

 

[CRM 114]

Generally speaking, it's extremely hard to try a rape case. Even if you have DNA evidence from a rape kit, you need another provable circumstance (significant vaginal tearing, scars on the suspect from the victim defending herself, a friend saying she heard her yell stop, etc.).

I don't know if they have those in this case, but it's atypical in a rape case to have anything other than the victim's word and some vaginal redness.

On the other hand, while it's pretty hard to get a conviction, it's generally not that hard to get an arrest warrant. I'd worry about that if I were a Blackhawks fan (and I am). It doesn't take hardly any evidence to get an arrest warrant in a rape case, unfortunately. And if Patrick Kane is arrested on suspicion of rape, it won't matter if he's convicted. His career will be over, in my opinion.

That said, prosecutors don't typically want to file charges in cases they don't KNOW they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, especially a controversial high-profile one.

With all that said, although we don't know much in this case, based on typical rape cases, I'd be surprised if Kane were arrested or tried in this incident. If they're waiting on labs back from DNA to decide whether to make an arrest, that tells me they don't have much, if any other, evidence,

Even then, these can easily be explained away. Friends can lie and scars on the suspect can come from anything. This is why I don't see an arrest or a conviction. My biggest concern is the front office overreacting and cutting/trading him. But then again, I don't know everything about the case.

 

[DMelt36]

Since other thread is closed:

Judicial system in this country is a joke.

A woman can press bogus sexual assault charges, and then is not even prosecuted for filing a false police report when the accused is cleared.

Should this be the case w/Kane, his only recourse is to file a civil claim for $$ damages...which would be a waste of time considering he doesn't need the cash.

This is all by design to encourage women to come forward in sexual assault cases, yet in many cases it is the ACCUSED who winds up the true victim.

Moral for us men to abide by, be very, very careful...as only we are held accountable in the U.S.

We're not going down this road again in here. If you want to continue that conversation there's a forum in which you can do so.

 

[DMelt36]

These have not been proven as facts, just as reports. But hearing things like this ... not good.

Link is here.

Sources with knowledge of the investigation said that the young woman who has accused the hockey superstar of rape had bite marks on her shoulders and a scratch on her leg after the alleged attack.

The woman alleges that Kane invited her and a female friend to his home for a private party after they met him last Saturday night at SkyBar, a popular nightclub on Franklin Street, the sources said.

Shortly after she and her friend arrived at Kane’s home on Old Lakeshore Road, the accuser alleges that she went by herself into another room, where Kane followed her, overpowered her and raped her, the sources said.

The woman left Kane’s home with her friend and used a cellphone to call a relative immediately after the alleged attack. She then went to a local hospital for examination, and police were called afterward, the sources said.

 

[italianbeef]

Beef, I know I addressed your views on rape in a satirical manner, perhaps even "trollish."

Thanks for finally admitting it - doubt the other two have the guts.

But it was either that or pure rage. Victim blaming and impuning is despicable and I loathe misogynistic behavior like this.

I'm not victim blaming, I'm waiting until facts come out. I find assumptions of Kane's guilt at the first mention of this story to be equally despicable and misandrist. Baffoe at CBS, The Committed Indian, and others are already declaring his guilt even if not charged. In the court of public opinion, he has already lost. That's wrong.

Your hypothetical father/daughter scenario is downright repulsive.

Sorry you feel this way, but I was far from alone in thinking that if an underage girl baits a man into sleeping with her consensually and he is then charged with statutory rape, that is unfair to the man. If a girl looks of age and has a fake ID and is in a bar that verifies that ID, how much more burden of proof should be on the man?

If a man knowingly seeks out underage girls, that is a different story, as I said in the other thread.

This "innocence before proven guilty" shit shouldn't even be a conversation until the alleged rapist is charged and going to trial.

Why? There is an official police investigating naming Kane and his name is being trashed. Why is it unfair that he should have people who say he's innocent until proven guilty? Coming out and calling the girl a slut or gold-digger is wrong, saying "let's wait and see what happens" is not.

You don't tell the victim of a robbery that when they call 911 do you?

I don't understand your line of reasoning. If there is a robbery and a person of interest is name and not charged, that person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

It's amazing to me that doubt is immediately cast on the accuser in this situation. Why all you guys want to rush to the accused defense with all sorts of hypothetical scenarios says alot about your character imo. So go ahead and call it trolling, but you know how you've handled yourself and imo you deserve much more disdain and rebuke than the "trolling" you are so up in arms about.

Again, she should not have doubts cast on her nor should Kane. There is at least as much if not more "you know he did it" going around than the converse.

And no sanctimonious lecturing from you on that matter.

 

[CRM 114]

These have not been proven as facts, just as reports. But hearing things like this ... not good.

Link is here.

I really hope that isn't true.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

These have not been proven as facts, just as reports. But hearing things like this ... not good.

Link is here.

Holy shit if true...

 

[DMelt36]

By having sex? I mean if he's guilty he belongs in prison, but if he is innocent then he is the victim here and did nothing more wrong than having sex with a woman. God forbid. You can't suspend a player for having sex in his own home, just because the person he did it with turned out to by a money grubbing liar.

Again it is either or. Either he is guilty in which case prison/release/whatever punishment is warranted and the discussion of his status is moot. Or he is innocent in which case he absolutely nothing wrong. Suspending an athlete for taking a girl home to bang would end up with everyone but Tim Tebow out of professional sports.

Guess I should expand on that a bit more, as I see your point.

If the police come out and say that Kane is not being convicted because he did not commit a crime (meaning it was a false accusation), then he probably won't get suspended.

But if the police come out and say something like "there wasn't enough evidence to pursue charges," that could foster some investigation from the Blackhawks organization and if they determine that what Kane did was not permissible by their team standards, then he could a suspension from the team. While the police have to deal with due process and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, the Blackhawks do not.

 

[Sunbiz1]

We're not going down this road again in here. If you want to continue that conversation there's a forum in which you can do so.

It applies to the Kane situation, and therefore should be discussed wherever.

 

[CRM 114]

This is an interesting development. Bite Marks are evidence that can't be explained away. If they can prove those are Kane's bitemarks, he's fucked and so are we as Hawks fans. It doesn't prove rape but it is a sadistic crime nonetheless and would be the final straw for Rocky/McD/Bowman.

 

[HeHateMe]

Thanks for finally admitting it - doubt the other two have the guts.



I'm not victim blaming, I'm waiting until facts come out. I find assumptions of Kane's guilt at the first mention of this story to be equally despicable and misandrist. Baffoe at CBS, The Committed Indian, and others are already declaring his guilt even if not charged. In the court of public opinion, he has already lost. That's wrong.



Sorry you feel this way, but I was far from alone in thinking that if an underage girl baits a man into sleeping with her consensually and he is then charged with statutory rape, that is unfair to the man. If a girl looks of age and has a fake ID and is in a bar that verifies that ID, how much more burden of proof should be on the man?

If a man knowingly seeks out underage girls, that is a different story, as I said in the other thread.



Why? There is an official police investigating naming Kane and his name is being trashed. Why is it unfair that he should have people who say he's innocent until proven guilty? Coming out and calling the girl a slut or gold-digger is wrong, saying "let's wait and see what happens" is not.



I don't understand your line of reasoning. If there is a robbery and a person of interest is name and not charged, that person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.



Again, she should not have doubts cast on her nor should Kane. There is at least as much if not more "you know he did it" going around than the converse.

And no sanctimonious lecturing from you on that matter.

Meh. It's a good thing law enforcement presumes guilt when they are investigating. That's the stage right now. Innocence should be presumed once charged. Who cares about public opinion? Facts determine guilt, and when police investigate they look for facts to support charges, not facts to disprove the accuser. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[italianbeef]

These have not been proven as facts, just as reports. But hearing things like this ... not good.

Link is here.

That does sound really bad.

 

[HeHateMe]

That does sound really bad.

Ya think?

 

[DMelt36]

It applies to the Kane situation, and therefore should be discussed wherever.

When you find something that suggests your claims apply to the Kane situation, then we'll discuss it. Right now, the only reports are suggesting quite the opposite.

 

[Samurai]

I'd consider it a punishment from McD for giving the Hawks such bad press.

If that's the case, McD should suspend himself for behind the scenes dictatorial shenanigans (Josh Mora et al.)...and his little dog too (Jay Blumpkin).

 

[DMelt36]

If that's the case, McD should suspend himself for behind the scenes dictatorial shenanigans (Josh Mora et al.)...and his little dog too (Jay Blumpkin).

Guess that's why it's always nice to be the one in charge, eh?

 

[italianbeef]

Meh. It's a good thing law enforcement presumes guilt when they are investigating. That's the stage right now. Innocence should be presumed once charged. Who cares about public opinion? Facts determine guilt, and when police investigate they look for facts to support charges, not facts to disprove the accuser. Why is this so hard to understand?

Yes, "presumption of innocence" is a legal prerequisite for court cases, which this is not yet. That doesn't mean one can't presume him innocent until proven guilty when they form a personal opinion on the matter. If you say they should not, does that imply that you think he should be presumed guilty?

Public opinion can wreck lives.

 

[HeHateMe]

Yes, "presumption of innocence" is a legal prerequisite for court cases, which this is not yet. That doesn't mean one can't presume him innocent until proven guilty when they form a personal opinion on the matter. If you say they should not, does that imply that you think he should be presumed guilty?

Public opinion can wreck lives.

So does rape.

 

[italianbeef]

So does rape.

It sure does, but the standard is not to presume guilt and arrest everyone accused of it.

 

[Sunbiz1]

How in the **** does this apply in the kane situation? You don't even know what the situation is to justify applying this shit to it. Wtf?

The same rules apply to every s assault case, as evidenced on the front page of today's Trib sports section...it is the man who carries the the burden of proof.

Even if Kane is completely cleared, for him the story won't go away for a very long time.