Well... The world is now ending on October 21st...

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I am here with a message from God, he spoke to me at the time of rapture and said that it was arguments like this that mean the world is not ready for him. He told me to get everyone ready and he'd be back on 6-22-2015. At Sunrise, EST.



Send me money.

My conversation said there would be beer, wine, and liquor, but I need to provide it up front and he will reimburse me. So I will need some additional money to cover those costs on top of what you were all going to send to MassHavoc. I will return the money when God pays me back. I promise.

 

[MassHavoc]

My conversation said there would be beer, wine, and liquor, but I need to provide it up front and he will reimburse me. So I will need some additional money to cover those costs on top of what you were all going to send to MassHavoc. I will return the money when God pays me back. I promise.

Correct, he said that you would handle the libations and I was strictly to handle the preparations.

 

[supraman]

Correct, he said that you would handle the libations and I was strictly to handle the preparations.

Okay so i got all the money I can, I am now homeless and broke, where do I send the check? Also can I crash with one of you guys?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

First off my official answer on the universe is "I don't know and I'm okay with that". However, to play devil's advocate (since I learn to it randomly happened) the odds of it forming this exact way are retardedly large. I mean we are WAY beyond trillions to 1. Even the odds of a strand of DNA assembling randomly is trillions to 1 or more. So did a deity maybe nudge certain things in certain directions? Sure it is possible, do I think this deity is the same as the christian, jewish, muslim, hindi, blah blah blah god? Nope.

Exactly.



I read something from a scientist who was athiest but turned "christian" or maybe that's not the right label... but started believing in God.



He said that for this universe to turn out the way it did... it would be like dropping a shuffled deck of cards off the roof of the Empire State Building and them landing one on top of the other Ace through King, in correct suits.

 

[MassHavoc]

Okay so i got all the money I can, I am now homeless and broke, where do I send the check? Also can I crash with one of you guys?

Don't forget to quit your job, and sorry. My house is full of animals, 2 by 2.

 

[supraman]

Don't forget to quit your job, and sorry. My house is full of animals, 2 by 2.

Okay job quit and since the world is ending flipped off my boss and took a dump on his desk

 

[MassHavoc]

First off my official answer on the universe is "I don't know and I'm okay with that". However, to play devil's advocate (since I learn to it randomly happened) the odds of it forming this exact way are retardedly large. I mean we are WAY beyond trillions to 1. Even the odds of a strand of DNA assembling randomly is trillions to 1 or more. So did a deity maybe nudge certain things in certain directions? Sure it is possible, do I think this deity is the same as the christian, jewish, muslim, hindi, blah blah blah god? Nope.

Except for the fact that odds are irrelevant. In the matter of time and space, no matter how small the odds, when you have infinite time the odds dwindle. 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to 1 odd mean that it will happen, just a small likelyhood and it could take forever. Luckily we had forever.



Also, in the absence of universe, time has nothing to be relative to, so in fact everything could be instant. Which means how ever long it takes for combinations to play out, could all be instant which means everything happened all at once and there was no actual waiting thus the universe was created instantly before time existed, thus creating time. The odds don't matter, as long as it can happen it did happen.

 

[Tater]

Am I the only one upset because we never had the chance for post-rapture looting?

You mean you didn't just loot anyways?

I went out looting "just in case". Tipped over a few cars too.

 

[MassHavoc]

Okay job quit and since the world is ending flipped off my boss and took a dump on his desk

Well.. I guess you could have waited about four more years, then you would have had more money to send me and a better chance at rapture.

 

[TSD]

Except for the fact that odds are irrelevant. In the matter of time and space, no matter how small the odds, when you have infinite time the odds dwindle. 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to 1 odd mean that it will happen, just a small likelyhood and it could take forever. Luckily we had forever.



Also, in the absence of universe, time has nothing to be relative to, so in fact everything could be instant. Which means how ever long it takes for combinations to play out, could all be instant which means everything happened all at once and there was no actual waiting thus the universe was created instantly before time existed, thus creating time. The odds don't matter, as long as it can happen it did happen.

Correct, Odds are completely irrelevant. The odds the the universe could have formed in any other slight variation from a completely lifeless universe to a universe where every planet had life, are just as likely/unlikely.



like my example with the random number generator. I dont know if x will ever equal 5, but I know it's possible.



because again, everyone treats God as if God requires no explanation but the Universe does. We are simply taking an infinitely complex creator being, and not having any questions about that simply existing, but the universe simply existing? Preposterous!



If God doesn't require a creator, why does the universe? Riddle me that one.

 

[supraman]

Correct, Odds are completely irrelevant. The odds the the universe could have formed in any other slight variation from a completely lifeless universe to a universe where every planet had life, are just as likely/unlikely.



like my example with the random number generator. I dont know if x will ever equal 5, but I know it's possible.



because again, everyone treats God as if God requires no explanation but the Universe does. We are simply taking an infinitely complex creator being, and not having any questions about that simply existing, but the universe simply existing? Preposterous!



If God doesn't require a creator, why does the universe? Riddle me that one.

I question it all.

 

[LordKOTL]

You mean you didn't just loot anyways?

I went out looting "just in case". Tipped over a few cars too.

Nah, my plan was to go to every single church there is--mainly archdioscese and the like, and pilfer from them selling the spoils to help the downtrodden heathens.



Plus, it's not like anyone can pilfer lupins without a permit.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Correct, Odds are completely irrelevant. The odds the the universe could have formed in any other slight variation from a completely lifeless universe to a universe where every planet had life, are just as likely/unlikely.



like my example with the random number generator. I dont know if x will ever equal 5, but I know it's possible.



because again, everyone treats God as if God requires no explanation but the Universe does. We are simply taking an infinitely complex creator being, and not having any questions about that simply existing, but the universe simply existing? Preposterous!



If God doesn't require a creator, why does the universe? Riddle me that one.

I know it sounds weird... but I find the "Ancient Aliens" series on Discovery Channel very interesting. There are many accounts all over the world from civilizations that could not have possibly communicated with eachother of "Gods in the sky"... they show up in artwork and in literature. Who knows if life on Earth was propagated maybe not by a "GOD SITTING ON A THRONE IN HEAVEN" but just by incredibly advanced, intelligent beings? What if that is where the notion of "God" came from? I think it would be ignorant to think we are the only intelligent life in the infintely expanding universe.



I just look at the Great Pyramids for example... engineers say that even today with heavy duty cranes and machinery they would not be able to duplicate the water tight stone work of the pyramids. What about stone henge etc...?



I don't BELIEVE in any of that stuff but I'm open to the possibility...

 

[TSD]

I question it all.

My whole argument with stu is what makes logical sense, not what is right or wrong.



He cannot provide me a reason that a naturally occurring universe is illogical. Is it right because its logical? No.



Something supernatural is something attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.



Thus by what we know to be true(dont confuse "what we know to be true" by me asserting an absolute) it simply means based on the evidence so far, we know of nothing that fits the definition of supernatural to exist, therefore asserting a supernatural being created the universe is illogical, because everything we know to exist is bound to the laws of nature, so it is illogical, based on nothing to assume it does. Does it mean it doesnt or cant? I guess not, but it is illogical to assume it does when you are given no solid evidence to think otherwise. By default something super natural would in fact defy logic.

I know it sounds weird... but I find the "Ancient Aliens" series on Discovery Channel very interesting. There are many accounts all over the world from civilizations that could not have possibly communicated with eachother of "Gods in the sky"... they show up in artwork and in literature. Who knows if life on Earth was propagated maybe not by a "GOD SITTING ON A THRONE IN HEAVEN" but just by incredibly advanced, intelligent beings? What if that is where the notion of "God" came from? I think it would be ignorant to think we are the only intelligent life in the infintely expanding universe.



I just look at the Great Pyramids for example... engineers say that even today with heavy duty cranes and machinery they would not be able to duplicate the water tight stone work of the pyramids. What about stone henge etc...?



I don't BELIEVE in any of that stuff but I'm open to the possibility...

That answers the question to our existence, but still leaves the universe itself and those aliens origin in question.



and it is not illogical. We know we exist, we know our planet exists, we know other planets exist, therefore it is not illogical to think other intelligent beings can exist on other planets, we dont know that they do, but we know if we're here, so to can someone else. The discovery of the "new world" is that theory in action. Its happened before on our own planet.

 

[supraman]

Here's the one bit of credence a deity has. Assuming the existence of the universe is random. What was there before it? How did that super dense ball of energy come into existence? Why did it come into existence? What made that ball of energy go big bang?



A deity makes a plausible explanation to those questions but raises questions as to why. The laws of physics break down due to singularity so it is entirely possible we will never know.



There is a theory that this entire universe is stuck to the side of a wormhole. That is no more silly or serious than any other suggestion out there.

 

[TSD]

Here's the one bit of credence a deity has. Assuming the existence of the universe is random. What was there before it? How did that super dense ball of energy come into existence? Why did it come into existence? What made that ball of energy go big bang?



A deity makes a plausible explanation to those questions but raises questions as to why. The laws of physics break down due to singularity so it is entirely possible we will never know.



There is a theory that this entire universe is stuck to the side of a wormhole. That is no more silly or serious than any other suggestion out there.

Again, You must also explain the deity. A deity doesn't have anymore credence due to those questions, because the deity itself is subject to the same questions.



i.e. how did God come into existence? who what where why and how and so fourth.



which leads me back, why does the universe require a creator, but God doesn't.



Why is it so easy to think "God just was" but not "the universe just was".

 

[supraman]

Again, You must also explain the deity. A deity doesn't have anymore credence due to those questions, because the deity itself is subject to the same questions.



i.e. how did God come into existence? who what where why and how and so fourth.



which leads me back, why does the universe require a creator, but God doesn't.



Why is it so easy to think "God just was" but not "the universe just was".

You can certainly ask those questions in regards to a deity. Which explains why I simply say I don't know. Also if that was directed at me in anyway, I don't have a belief on the matter. I might lean towards to the universe just was but I am not sold on it.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Okay so i got all the money I can, I am now homeless and broke, where do I send the check? Also can I crash with one of you guys?

Sure I have room in my old 82 Accord Hatchback that is the backyard. Do you need blankets?

 

[TSD]

camping speaks:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...ophet-followers-flabbergasted-world-didnt-end

 

[Variable]

Neither is dumb...

I'm just using the word you used to describe it. We can go back and forth on it if it's dumb or not (I believe it's more out of comfort and ease than being dumb), but the thing that cannot be debated is the notion that those people who believe that way will always(and rightfully so) face that kind of obstacle because their beliefs limit the potential of possibilities to what an old book says. It puts them in a box into what is possible and what is impossible, it's finite knowledge that they adhere to.



And I hate that every time a discussion like this comes up there always has to be a side discussion and explanation as to why people who believe that way aren't taken as seriously as those who may believe that the universe was naturally occurring or whatever other theory that DOES NOT limit itself or hold itself back to what a man made book of fairy tales and beliefs says happened. It's ridiculous.