What if Pace traded up for Watson...

[DavidH]

Why lol? The GM and scouts in Houston know more about football than everyone on this board combined and thought acquiring his services was worth two first round picks. I guess they should have logged on to CCS first to get the real expert analysis?

These are the same people who gave a huge contract to Brock Osweiler and then had to give away a 2nd rounder to dump him off not long later.

The QB position is very hard to fill. Teams do desperate and often dumb things to try to solve it. Especially teams that are strong everywhere else and "just" a QB away.

 

[CNiel36]

In one corner ya have a Qb who played in 2 NC's ( won 1). Had a 33-3 w-l . Passed for 4109yds 67.8% comp. 35Td's 13 ints in 2015 and in 2016 upped his stats by passing for 4593yds, 67.0% comp. 41Td's and 17ints.

In the other corner, ya have a Qb who loss more the double the games ( in 1 season ) than the other guy had in 3 seasons, doesn't have the Td or yardage production of the other guy, lost 4 of his last 5 games ( including a bowl game), but this guy is allegedly the best Qb in the draft.

Whats wrong with this picture?

If college stats and wins were the only predictor of success at the NFL level then why did these QBs fail?

Tim Tebow - 35-6 (2 National Championships)
Matt Leinart - 35-2 (2 Natioanl Championships)
Case Keenum - Most passing yards in NCAA history
Timmy Chang - Threw for 17,000+ yards in his career

Should I keep listed out all the great college QBs that failed in the NFL? If you want a fail comparrison lets look at Watson's first year and compare it to MT:

Watson -
67.8 comp pct
4109 yards
35 TDS
13 INTs
15 games

Trubisky -
68 comp pct
3748 yards
30 TDs
6 INTs
13 games

Very similar, and MT had 2 less games. And since they both played in the ACC their schedules for the first 13 are very similar.

 

[TL1961]

Think the narrative would be the same as it is now?

Part of this whole 'selling the farm' 'Pace getting fleeced' garbage is who the Bears took.

No one saw this coming. Jeremiah and Brugler said the Bears liked Trubisky at 3 leading up to the draft, but I think that was viewed as smoke

Rap got it wrong. Schefter got it wrong. Pace had everyone fooled, which is pretty impressive when you think about it.

But had Watson been the guy @ 2, I think the narrative would be different. Watson's become the media darling. Chicago writers were slurping him before and after the draft. National writers too.

And the smoke leading up about the Bears interest in Watson seemed to point that Pace was very interested.

Which is funny bc Trubisky was considered QB1 by a lot of NFL people. Watson QB3.

Thoughts?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

i agree with this.

Even though many teams had Watson 2nd or 3rd, and Watson actually went 3rd, writers are stuck on him being "the guy".

He was great in winning a championship in college, therefore he is the guy. (Somehow they have forgotten Tebow even though he manages to stay in the news every day.)

I do like Watson and certainly feel he will be better nFL QB than Tebow. ( How coukd he not be?) But the media always overrates the name players. (Jake Butt is another example. Picked as 2nd or 3rd TE and projected in 2nd round, but goes much lower)

For all that is written about the draft prospects, I see big name players and players from name schools constantly projected higher than they actually go.

Andy Reed is hailed as QB whisperer/guru, yet when he bypasses Watson it doesn't matter to the talking heads ( or to the B52s ? )

Had Pace taken Watson, or had Cleveland or Andy Reed taken Tru at 2, it would be entirely differnt reaction.

 

[FirstTimer]

There are a lot of talking heads who put out these mocks drafts that rely on their "inside info" to justify their jobs. And to be honest, many of them (Kiper is the best example) have their entire careers based off of their stupid fucking "mocks". And when they're wrong, they look stupid.

Pace made everyone look stupid.

So, they immediately sided with their buddy Lynch and started the "Pace got fleeced" narrative.

End of day, they look dumb no matter what. Whether Pace lost that trade cannot be determined until we see what Trubisky does on the field.

What's funny about the Kiper/McShay BS towards Pace is they are pushing the narrative that Pace got "fleeced" giving up a couple mid round draft picks to take a guy they had mocked as the #1 overall pick late in the process due to Cleveland being rumored to wanting to take him.

 

[TL1961]

Houston is coached by a guy anointed as a QB guru. Therefore whoever he picked is obviously a great prospect because he knows QBs.

List of QBs with whom Bill O'Brien has had success:

Tom Brady
end of list

 

[bearmick]

These are the same people who gave a huge contract to Brock Osweiler and then had to give away a 2nd rounder to dump him off not long later.

The QB position is very hard to fill. Teams do desperate and often dumb things to try to solve it. Especially teams that are strong everywhere else and "just" a QB away.

There are a lot of people who think highly of Watson. The fact that you personally don't, doesn't mean he isn't going to succeed.

 

[run and shoot]

If college stats and wins were the only predictor of success at the NFL level then why did these QBs fail?

Tim Tebow - 35-6 (2 National Championships).....I don't really consider those REAL NC's . Today teams have to compete & advance to the NC. I liked Tebow
Matt Leinart - 35-2 (2 Natioanl Championships).....he never had the mental leadership make up.
Case Keenum - Most passing yards in NCAA history......not a physical talent
Timmy Chang - Threw for 17,000+ yards in his career......same as above ( played in June Jones updated RNS "O", which doesn't need physical talent)

Should I keep listed out all the great college QBs that failed in the NFL? If you want a fail comparrison lets look at Watson's first year and compare it to MT:

I was hoping you wouldn't do this to yourself.....sigh.


the great college QB....good to great NFL careers

Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway,Jim McMahon, Doug Flutie ( one of my favorites. he proved height was no factor in winning), Warren Moon, Mike Vick, Marcus Mariota. Andrew Luck, Cam Newton ( Junior college championship, NCAA championship, before it involved elimination and a SB appearance), ....should I go own with the listing?

Watson -
67.8 comp pct
4109 yards
35 TDS
13 INTs
15 games

Trubisky -
68 comp pct
3748 yards
30 TDs
6 INTs
13 games

Very similar, and MT had 2 less games. And since they both played in the ACC their schedules for the first 13 are very similar.

Actually in Watson's first yr. he had 14Td's vs 2 ints. You picked Watson's 2015 #'s. Why not the 2016 #'s where he passed for 41Td's ( not incl. rushing)? You avoided Watson's 33-3 W-L record ( over 3 seasons) vs. trubs' 8-5 W-L record ( with basically the same players the prior yr. , what happened then? and what happened when trubs took over?). Watson got he his team back to the NC and won it the last seconds How is that a fail?

 

[dbldrew]

Actually in Watson's first yr. he had 14Td's vs 2 ints. You picked Watson's 2015 #'s. Why not the 2016 #'s where he passed for 41Td's ( not incl. rushing)? You avoided Watson's 33-3 W-L record ( over 3 seasons) vs. trubs' 8-5 W-L record ( with basically the same players the prior, what then? and what happened when trubs took over?). Watson got he his team back to the NC and won it the last seconds How is that a fail?

Both Orton and Grossman had great W/L records with the Bears so is that the type of QB your looking for?

and not to mention we could of drafted a guy in the mid/late round with..

180 or 295 (61%) 2217 yards 16Td and 6INT and used our top pics for other needs..

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Did Pace ever say what his top 3 was? Probably not, but I wonder if Garrett was still number 1.

 

[NCChiFan]

I wouldn't have cared, and that is why I would have been fine sitting pat at #3. Pick whichever of MT/Watson was sitting there. But hey, I'm no scout. I'm not about to tell professionals their job on what QB they want and what QB fits their "style" of offense or which QB has holes in their game they don't think they can fix. :shrug::shrug:

 

[ijustposthere]

....but you have to admit, selling Watson would've been easier than trubs. We'll see how trubs pans out

How so? I wanted Watson and I'd still say the trade was unnecessary. Honestly, I was much more livid when it happened, calmed down some when Pace took a QB, and am more okay with it as time passes. I just didn't think he had to trade at all.

Also, I'm becoming a big Mitch fan because someone at work really hates him, so I've been trolling him and have been finding myself buying what I'm selling.

 

[run and shoot]

Quote Originally Posted by run and shoot View Post
Actually in Watson's first yr. he had 14Td's vs 2 ints. You picked Watson's 2015 #'s. Why not the 2016 #'s where he passed for 41Td's ( not incl. rushing)? You avoided Watson's 33-3 W-L record ( over 3 seasons) vs. trubs' 8-5 W-L record ( with basically the same players the prior, what then? and what happened when trubs took over?). Watson got he his team back to the NC and won it the last seconds How is that a fail?

Both Orton and Grossman had great W/L records with the Bears so is that the type of QB your looking for?

and not to mention we could of drafted a guy in the mid/late round with..

180 or 295 (61%) 2217 yards 16Td and 6INT and used our top pics for other needs..

The OP was trying to chop down and marginalize Watson's accomplishments...so I was just addressing the flaws in his assumption.

On Orton and Grossman.....they've got nothing to be ashamed of. At least Grossman made it to a SB.

To answer your question...no I don't want a QB like them. I'd prefer a physically talented Qb, who is a leader and a winner. Yes...I am happy we drafted a Qb. Did we draft the best one....time will tell.

------


I hear what you're saying about the comment "used our top pics for other needs".....but we had to draft a Qb. We just couldn't keep neglecting it for other positions.

dbldrew....when you have the right Qb, it lifts the whole team more than any other position. Point in case Houston. Great "D", but only avg. 17pts/game and no Qb. That won't get ya to the SB ( and they were eliminated 2nd rnd.)

 

[Smokey Robinson]

I would have been even more pumped if he traded up for Watson as that was the player I wanted most. Still pumped about Mitch and realize that Pace knows a lot more about evaluating a QB than I ever will. I love the fact he traded up for his QB. The only way I would have been upset at the trade up would be if it was for Solomon Thomas.

 

[dbldrew]

The OP was trying to chop down and marginalize Watson's accomplishments...so I was just addressing the flaws in his assumption.

On Orton and Grossman.....they've got nothing to be ashamed of. At least Grossman made it to a SB.

To answer your question...no I don't want a QB like them. I'd prefer a physically talented Qb, who is a leader and a winner. Yes...I am happy we drafted a Qb. Did we draft the best one....time will tell.

------


I hear what you're saying about the comment "used our top pics for other needs".....but we had to draft a Qb. We just couldn't keep neglecting it for other positions.

dbldrew....when you have the right Qb, it lifts the whole team more than any other position. Point in case Houston. Great "D", but only avg. 17pts/game and no Qb. That won't get ya to the SB ( and they were eliminated 2nd rnd.)

Just for the record I'm ecstatic we moved up and grabbed a QB was just having a little fun by posting Tom Bradys College stats into the mix because they are pretty marginal.. just shining light on the fact that college stats are kind of meaningless in the NFL

 

[run and shoot]

How so? I wanted Watson and I'd still say the trade was unnecessary. Honestly, I was much more livid when it happened, calmed down some when Pace took a QB, and am more okay with it as time passes. I just didn't think he had to trade at all.

Also, I'm becoming a big Mitch fan because someone at work really hates him, so I've been trolling him and have been finding myself buying what I'm selling.

See I'm not to hung up on the trade ( true he might've still been there). Yeah, I understand how ppl. are upset with pace possibly " trading with himself or chasing ghosts".

But if we got the RIGHT QB....then we're good. What woulda' pissed me off is if we included a 1st rounder in the transaction.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Think the narrative would be the same as it is now?

Part of this whole 'selling the farm' 'Pace getting fleeced' garbage is who the Bears took.

No one saw this coming. Jeremiah and Brugler said the Bears liked Trubisky at 3 leading up to the draft, but I think that was viewed as smoke

Rap got it wrong. Schefter got it wrong. Pace had everyone fooled, which is pretty impressive when you think about it.

But had Watson been the guy @ 2, I think the narrative would be different. Watson's become the media darling. Chicago writers were slurping him before and after the draft. National writers too.

And the smoke leading up about the Bears interest in Watson seemed to point that Pace was very interested.

Which is funny bc Trubisky was considered QB1 by a lot of NFL people. Watson QB3.

Thoughts?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

He wouldn't have period I bet Pace had mahomes higher than Watson so there would never be a what if you guys like beating a dead horse


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[GSH_34]

It all comes down to the fact that Watson had more success as a college QB vs. the fact that Trubisky arguably has better QB tools for potential NFL success.

One thing is more visible/recognizable by an average Bears fan than the other, and therefore Watson would be more approved option at #2 or #3 than Trubisky.

Yep. 100%.

 

[GSH_34]

No no no....haven't you seen all the narratives with him, perfect situation for him, he will be this year's Dak..... that's all they are talking about with him....gona be the missing piece that turns that Franchise into perennial contenders. lol

I'm no Watson fan, but I can see him having success early on. That defense will carry them to the playoffs in that division and Watson will have a good offensive supporting cast.

Which is exactly the situation Watson can thrive in, like he did at Clemson. Watson just has to be better than Savage and Osweiler, which isn't hard to do.

 

[GSH_34]

i agree with this.

Even though many teams had Watson 2nd or 3rd, and Watson actually went 3rd, writers are stuck on him being "the guy".

He was great in winning a championship in college, therefore he is the guy. (Somehow they have forgotten Tebow even though he manages to stay in the news every day.)

I do like Watson and certainly feel he will be better nFL QB than Tebow. ( How coukd he not be?) But the media always overrates the name players. (Jake Butt is another example. Picked as 2nd or 3rd TE and projected in 2nd round, but goes much lower)

For all that is written about the draft prospects, I see big name players and players from name schools constantly projected higher than they actually go.

Andy Reed is hailed as QB whisperer/guru, yet when he bypasses Watson it doesn't matter to the talking heads ( or to the B52s �� )

Had Pace taken Watson, or had Cleveland or Andy Reed taken Tru at 2, it would be entirely differnt reaction.

Butt tore his ACL in the Bowl Game, or he would've been a 2nd Rounder. Good prospect.

But I agree with everything else. Keep in mind, Watson failed the velocity threshold at the combine. Badly. He threw 49mph. The threshold is 55. Since they started doing that test (forget which year), no QB under 55 has found success.

Now, some argue Watson's number is lower than it shows on film, which Ben Allbright did a test on that and found Watson was at 53 on tape. Which is still below the threshold.

Watson's selling points were that he's a winner, leader, clutch in big situations. His tools aren't good. Mediocre arm, poor mechanics/footwork, comes from a rudimentary spread offense, inaccurate, makes poor decisions.

Watson's tape really isn't that good. Especially this year. That said, I don't think he'll fail. I just question his ceiling. But he found a really good home in Houston that will cover his flaws, much like his team at Clemson did.

 

[AustinIllini]

These are the same people who gave a huge contract to Brock Osweiler and then had to give away a 2nd rounder to dump him off not long later.

The QB position is very hard to fill. Teams do desperate and often dumb things to try to solve it. Especially teams that are strong everywhere else and "just" a QB away.

Yeah, but the Texans FO is pretty darn smart. They are loaded at every other position.