What if Pace traded up for Watson...

[CNiel36]

Actually in Watson's first yr. he had 14Td's vs 2 ints. You picked Watson's 2015 #'s. Why not the 2016 #'s where he passed for 41Td's ( not incl. rushing)? You avoided Watson's 33-3 W-L record ( over 3 seasons) vs. trubs' 8-5 W-L record ( with basically the same players the prior yr. , what happened then? and what happened when trubs took over?). Watson got he his team back to the NC and won it the last seconds How is that a fail?

I listed 2015 because this was Watson's first full year as a starter. He only played in 8 games in 2014, so not really a great compassion. Also, please keep in mind the talent surrounding Watson at Clemson compared to the talent at North Carolina. It is not even close.

How about all your great College QBs that became great pro QBs:

Joe Montana - He played one full year at ND (1978), where he lead his team to a 9-3 record with 2010 yards passing and 10 TDs/9 INTs.... Wow!

Dan Marino - Had 3 amazing years going 33-3, then in his senior season when he should be ready to take the next step he goes 9-3 and throws 17 TDs to 23 INTs.... AWESOME!

John Elway - Lets look at Stanfords records with ole John at the helm....
1979 - 5/5/1
1980 - 6/5
1981 - 4/7
1982 - 5/6

Warren Moon - Washington's recrods with Mr Moon...
1975 - 6/5
1976 - 5/6
1977 - 8/4

I guess I can keep going through your list, but I am good. But thanks for adding some more ammo to my 'You don't have to be a great QB in college to be great in the pros". Oh and I forgot, TOM FRIGGIN BRADY! There are QBs that light up the NCAA and go on to light of the NFL, they are there. And there are QBs that light up the NCAA and cant last in the NFL. We can go down the list and figure out how many are in each category, but really its pointless.

The simple take away is success in college taking alone does not mean automatic success in the NFL. History is littered with QBs that didn't do much in college Montana/Brady/Moon that are wonderful in the NFL.

 

[Magenta Aye-Aye]

Thank god the Hard Knocks team is chosen before the draft. If it was after, Bears likely get selected after that trade down for Trubisky.

 

[remydat]

I listed 2015 because this was Watson's first full year as a starter. He only played in 8 games in 2014, so not really a great compassion. Also, please keep in mind the talent surrounding Watson at Clemson compared to the talent at North Carolina. It is not even close.

If you are going to use 2015 then you really can't claim that that the talent surrounding Watson was much better than NC because Williams didn't play in 2015. Excluding Williams here is where the top guys were drafted. I have them in order of how many receiving yards they had.

NC
1. Ryan Switzer - 4th round pick 133
2. Bug Howard - Undrafted
3. Proehl - Still in college
4. Hollins - 4th round pick 118
5. TJ Logan - 5th round pick 179

Clemson
1. Artavis Scott - Undrafted
2. Charone Peake - 7th round pick 241
3. Deon Cain - Still in college
4. Jordan Leggett - 5th round pick 150
5. Hunter Renfro - Still in college

So not sure how you can say Clemson is significantly more talented. I didn't include Gallman because he was not in the top 5 receivers for Watson but even if you throw him in there, he was 4th round pick 140 and drafted after Hollins and Switzer. So the fact is the 2016 UNC team had higher draft picks than the 2015 Clemson team. Clemson's top two targets in 2015 basically was an undrafted Scott and a 7th round pick in Peake.

Also, while Watson and Trubisky's passing numbers are close, if you are comparing the two seasons, you can't just ignore the 1,105 yards rushing, 13 TDs and 5.3 YPC for Watson compared 308 Yards, 5 TDs, and 3.3 YPC for Trubisky.

So while I agree that success in college doesn't automatically mean success in the NFL, let's not pretend like 2015 Watson had a significantly more talented receiving core or just ignore the fact the dude's running ability made his overall contribution to his team better than Trubisky's

 

[CNiel36]

If you are going to use 2015 then you really can't claim that that the talent surrounding Watson was much better than NC because Williams didn't play in 2015. Excluding Williams here is where the top guys were drafted. I have them in order of how many receiving yards they had.

NC
1. Ryan Switzer - 4th round pick 133
2. Bug Howard - Undrafted
3. Proehl - Still in college
4. Hollins - 4th round pick 118
5. TJ Logan - 5th round pick 179

Clemson
1. Artavis Scott - Undrafted
2. Charone Peake - 7th round pick 241
3. Deon Cain - Still in college
4. Jordan Leggett - 5th round pick 150
5. Hunter Renfro - Still in college

So not sure how you can say Clemson is significantly more talented. I didn't include Gallman because he was not in the top 5 receivers for Watson but even if you throw him in there, he was 4th round pick 140 and drafted after Hollins and Switzer. So the fact is the 2016 UNC team had higher draft picks than the 2015 Clemson team. Clemson's top two targets in 2015 basically was an undrafted Scott and a 7th round pick in Peake.

Also, while Watson and Trubisky's passing numbers are close, if you are comparing the two seasons, you can't just ignore the 1,105 yards rushing, 13 TDs and 5.3 YPC for Watson compared 308 Yards, 5 TDs, and 3.3 YPC for Trubisky.

So while I agree that success in college doesn't automatically mean success in the NFL, let's not pretend like 2015 Watson had a significantly more talented receiving core or just ignore the fact the dude's running ability made his overall contribution to his team better than Trubisky's

I guess I should clarify, when I said the team around him, I meant the whole team around him. WR/RB/OLine/Defense, the whole thing. And while you could argue the WRs were similar in talent by the numbers, the Clemson team was better up front, in the run game, and on defense. My point was that Clemson as a whole was a better team around Watson then Trub. And you can show me stats on that until you are blue in the face, if UNC had the run gam, coaching, and defense that Clemson had they are not 8-5 with MT.

 

[strobiwan]

Watson was throwing to the #7 pick in the draft.
Trubs was throwing to short little white dudes.
do i need to say more

 

[run and shoot]

I listed 2015 because this was Watson's first full year as a starter. He only played in 8 games in 2014, so not really a great compassion. Also, please keep in mind the talent surrounding Watson at Clemson compared to the talent at North Carolina. It is not even close.

You conveniently left out what N.C. did b4 and after trubs took over.



How about all your great College QBs that became great pro QBs:

Joe Montana - He played one full year at ND (1978), where he lead his team to a 9-3 record with 2010 yards passing and 10 TDs/9 INTs.... Wow!

Dan Marino - Had 3 amazing years going 33-3, then in his senior season when he should be ready to take the next step he goes 9-3 and throws 17 TDs to 23 INTs.... AWESOME!

John Elway - Lets look at Stanfords records with ole John at the helm....
1979 - 5/5/1
1980 - 6/5
1981 - 4/7
1982 - 5/6

Warren Moon - Washington's recrods with Mr Moon...
1975 - 6/5
1976 - 5/6
1977 - 8/4

I guess I can keep going through your list, but I am good. But thanks for adding some more ammo to my 'You don't have to be a great QB in college to be great in the pros". Oh and I forgot, TOM FRIGGIN BRADY! There are QBs that light up the NCAA and go on to light of the NFL, they are there. And there are QBs that light up the NCAA and cant last in the NFL. We can go down the list and figure out how many are in each category, but really its pointless.

you avoided the qb's who were good in college and the pros Luck, Flutie, Newton and the others



The simple take away is success in college taking alone does not mean automatic success in the NFL. History is littered with QBs that didn't do much in college Montana/Brady/Moon that are wonderful in the NFL.

Some Qb's in college just don't have NFL talent. The ones I listed did have NFL talent. Since trubs does not have the good resume of a Watson, you have to go with the " college success does mean NFL success-narrative".

Watson kicked azz in so many areas as a Qb, tribs didn't and does not compare in upside. There's nothing about Watson that says he's a lesser Qb to trubs.

Why don't u just say what ever Watson does, past, present or future he'll never be as good trubs ( in ur mind). Yeah, I get it you don't like Watson, but don't marginalize what he's accomplished.

Again....I'm glad we drafted a Qb

 

[remydat]

I guess I should clarify, when I said the team around him, I meant the whole team around him. WR/RB/OLine/Defense, the whole thing. And while you could argue the WRs were similar in talent by the numbers, the Clemson team was better up front, in the run game, and on defense. My point was that Clemson as a whole was a better team around Watson then Trub. And you can show me stats on that until you are blue in the face, if UNC had the run gam, coaching, and defense that Clemson had they are not 8-5 with MT.

Clemson's D is better but UNC's running game is not worse than Clemson's. Clemson's run game looks better because of Watson. If you exclude Watson's running then the combination of Hood and Logan (UNC split carries between the 2) was pretty comparable to Gallman. It's just that Watson added about 1,000 yards to Clemson's rushing totals.

And Trubiksy is talented and had good overall numbers but he was inconsistent at times which cost us a few games. He single handedly cost us the Stanford game as he gave up 13 points with TOs and a dumb sack. Against GA, our D and run game had us up by 10 but Trubiksy threw for 150 yards and 0 TDs which is garbage.

The rest of the losses were more shared but don't confuse talent with this idea those loses were on others. He was still inexperienced and learning and there were times where he would go long stretches doing nothing and then drop a few TDs in like 5 minutes. NC State for example we were down 28-7 and then he played lights out in the 4th but the hole was too deep to dig out.

The reason a guy like Marquise Williams or Watson could win like 11 games in college is because when their passing abandoned them they could make plays with their feet. That made them better winners in the college game where you could get away with running more.

It's sort of ironic but the thing that makes Trubisky a better pro prospect is one of the things that made him a bit more prone to periods of ineffectiveness. That is he can run but would always be looking downfield to pass still. When he was on that meant more big plays but when he was off it meant incompletions when he probably could have run for 5-10 yards.

We show that in the VT game where he was still trying to throw in a hurricane to no avail when he had the speed to run more. Jerrod Evans did that and only threw 17 times while rushing 21 times. VT ran 66 times. UNC by contract had a similar yards per run for their top runners but only ran 29 times with Trubisky rushing 8 times while throwing 33 passes. A more experienced QB with his speed would have run more bit he kept trying to throw it in the hurricane. Some of that is on the coaching staff they give Trubiksy the power to change plays at the LoS and he knows how to scramble.

 

[remydat]

Watson was throwing to the #7 pick in the draft.
Trubs was throwing to short little white dudes.
do i need to say more

Howard is almost 6-5 and Switzer plays like Walker and had 1100 yards. Furthermore as discussed Williams was injured in 2015 and Watson still put up huge numbers.

 

[run and shoot]

Clemson's D is better but UNC's running game is not worse than Clemson's. Clemson's run game looks better because of Watson. If you exclude Watson's running then the combination of Hood and Logan (UNC split carries between the 2) was pretty comparable to Gallman. It's just that Watson added about 1,000 yards to Clemson's rushing totals.

And Trubiksy is talented and had good overall numbers but he was inconsistent at times which cost us a few games. He single handedly cost us the Stanford game as he gave up 13 points with TOs and a dumb sack. Against GA, our D and run game had us up by 10 but Trubiksy threw for 150 yards and 0 TDs which is garbage.

The rest of the losses were more shared but don't confuse talent with this idea those loses were on others. He was still inexperienced and learning and there were times where he would go long stretches doing nothing and then drop a few TDs in like 5 minutes. NC State for example we were down 28-7 and then he played lights out in the 4th but the hole was too deep to dig out.

The reason a guy like Marquise Williams or Watson could win like 11 games in college is because when their passing abandoned them they could make plays with their feet. That made them better winners in the college game where you could get away with running more.

It's sort of ironic but the thing that makes Trubisky a better pro prospect is one of the things that made him a bit more prone to periods of ineffectiveness. That is he can run but would always be looking downfield to pass still. When he was on that meant more big plays but when he was off it meant incompletions when he probably could have run for 5-10 yards.

We show that in the VT game where he was still trying to throw in a hurricane to no avail when he had the speed to run more. Jerrod Evans did that and only threw 17 times while rushing 21 times. VT ran 66 times. UNC by contract had a similar yards per run for their top runners but only ran 29 times with Trubisky rushing 8 times while throwing 33 passes. A more experienced QB with his speed would have run more bit he kept trying to throw it in the hurricane. Some of that is on the coaching staff they give Trubiksy the power to change plays at the LoS and he knows how to scramble.

With Watson's 4000+ yds passing and 40 TD's plus the rushing, the argument could made that he just knew how to balance his passing and rushing better than a lotta
Qb's....trubs included.

 

[remydat]

With Watson's 4000+ yds passing and 40 TD's plus the rushing, the argument could made that he just knew how to balance his passing and rushing better than a lotta
Qb's....trubs included.

Well sure but a lot of that is just game experience which Trubiksy would have picked up in time. He will just have to do so now in the NFL.

Watson will also need to curb his running a bit if he wants to stay alive in the NFL.

 

[mecha]

spoiler alert: he didn't.

next.

 

[run and shoot]

Well sure but a lot of that is just game experience which Trubiksy would have picked up in time. He will just have to do so now in the NFL.

Watson will also need to curb his running a bit if he wants to stay alive in the NFL.

Ya don't want to curb his ability to move around and make plays on the move to much. Ya also don't wanna be using to many, if any designed runs, IMO. If Watson takes the Russell Wilson approach to his game ( i.e. sliding).....he'll be fine. Same for trubs.

 

[GSH_34]

He wouldn't have period I bet Pace had mahomes higher than Watson so there would never be a what if you guys like beating a dead horse


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possible. At least I hope he had Mahomes higher. Good thing we didn't have to find out.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[CNiel36]

Some Qb's in college just don't have NFL talent. The ones I listed did have NFL talent. Since trubs does not have the good resume of a Watson, you have to go with the " college success does mean NFL success-narrative".

Watson kicked azz in so many areas as a Qb, tribs didn't and does not compare in upside. There's nothing about Watson that says he's a lesser Qb to trubs.

Why don't u just say what ever Watson does, past, present or future he'll never be as good trubs ( in ur mind). Yeah, I get it you don't like Watson, but don't marginalize what he's accomplished.

Again....I'm glad we drafted a Qb

Not trying to take a thing away from Watson, the man won a NC and went to 2. H e did some amazing things in college no doubt. My point is:

1 - Yes Watson has a better resume, but when you compare both players first full year as a starter, they are very similar.
2 - this idea of Watson is a winner in college so he will win in the NFL is garbage. Their is NO corolation from wins in college to wins in the pros, their just isn't. their is also no corolation between big stats in college and big stats in the pros. Each player must be looked at in a vacuum.

I actually thing both QBs maybe good to great in college, but with where we are and. What O we run, MT was the right pick.

 

[run and shoot]

Not trying to take a thing away from Watson, the man won a NC and went to 2. H e did some amazing things in college no doubt. My point is:

1 - Yes Watson has a better resume, but when you compare both players first full year as a starter, they are very similar.

Thanks for finally recognizing that Watson has the credentials.It seems, so few accept the guy as a legitimate Qb who can make a impact in the NFL

2 - this idea of Watson is a winner in college so he will win in the NFL is garbage. Their is NO corolation from wins in college to wins in the pros, their just isn't. their is also no corolation between big stats in college and big stats in the pros. Each player must be looked at in a vacuum.

Nothing is absolute. My point about winning is all things equal, I'd ya rather have a guy who's used to it. A guy who hates to lose. A guy who seems to find ways to win and motivate others to want to win. Ya hear all this stuff about cutler's ability, but going back to college, the guy was a loser. Mentally he wasn't a guy who knew how to win.

The guy became comfortable with losing and just getting a pay check. He didn't give a damn. To your point, yeah, each should be looked at individually. But I think you can understand where I'm coming from.

I actually thing both QBs maybe good to great in college, but with where we are and. What O we run, MT was the right pick.

I agree with most of what u say. When u say trubs "fits what we do" , what do we do? We we run the ball and only avg. 17pts/gm last year.....right? We need a guy who can help us score pts.

We need a Qb with leadership ability and a winning attitude. We need a guy who can elevate this team when we need it. We need a guy who performs well under pressure and will not turn the ball over. Given what we need at Qb, the arrow would point to Watson.

That's not to take away from trubs. It's just that trubs is at a different point in his development than Watson. Again....as I've said b4, I'm glad we drafted and tried to address the Qb position.

 

[Chinese]

I'm rooting for both to succeed. I do know that 11 teams passed on Watson for a reason and really even Cleveland at 12 since they traded out of the spot. Right now Watson is set to succeed with the Texans but what does worry me is the vertical game of Watson - you cant ignore his velocity and how much problems that can be. Hopefully he gets stronger.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[TrilliamShakespeare]

Actually in Watson's first yr. he had 14Td's vs 2 ints. You picked Watson's 2015 #'s. Why not the 2016 #'s where he passed for 41Td's ( not incl. rushing)? You avoided Watson's 33-3 W-L record ( over 3 seasons) vs. trubs' 8-5 W-L record ( with basically the same players the prior yr. , what happened then? and what happened when trubs took over?). Watson got he his team back to the NC and won it the last seconds How is that a fail?

Trubisky did NOT play with "basically the same players" as Marquise Williams did the year prior. Key players on that 2015 Tar Heels team that went 11 - 1 that weren't on or had limited contributions to that 2016 team:

Quinshad Davis - UNC's all time leader in receptions(at the time) and touchdowns graduated with Marquise.

Mack Hollins - #1 in NCAA in yards per reception(24.8) in 2015. Missed the last 6 games in 2016 with a broken collarbone.

Elijah Hood - UNC's best running back missed multiple games in 2016 and played injured the majority of the season.

Landon Turner - 2015 1st team All American right guard graduated with Marquise. His expected replacement missed the 2016 season due to injury.

Caleb Peterson - Left guard who started 30 straight games missed the final 8 games of the 2016 season because of injury.

UNC also lost offensive coordinator Seth Littrell after the 2015 season. Fedora went with co-offensive coordinators for the 2016 season and it went horribly.

Ryan switzer was the only returning playmaker, and he had his best year by far with Trubisky taking the snaps

 

[anotheridiot]

My question over this was if Houston got to 2, like some SF reports are stating, would they have still taken Watson?

 

[bamainatlanta]

In one corner ya have a Qb who played in 2 NC's ( won 1). Had a 33-3 w-l . Passed for 4109yds 67.8% comp. 35Td's 13 ints in 2015 and in 2016 upped his stats by passing for 4593yds, 67.0% comp. 41Td's and 17ints.

In the other corner, ya have a Qb who loss more the double the games ( in 1 season ) than the other guy had in 3 seasons, doesn't have the Td or yardage production of the other guy, lost 4 of his last 5 games ( including a bowl game), but this guy is allegedly the best Qb in the draft.

Whats wrong with this picture?

The only thing wrong with this picture is that you still post here

 

[iueyedoc]

My question over this was if Houston got to 2, like some SF reports are stating, would they have still taken Watson?

Haven't heard that rumor, but the answer is clearly no. If they were trying to move up for Watson, they would have more desperately tried to move up once the QB "run" began at 2, no way they would have waited until 12 if they coveted Watson at 2.