What Theo needs to do in 2018

[Parade_Rain]

28 mil on the bench...really?

:snoop:

Yes. Really.

 

[CSF77]

Yes. Really.

You play with monopoly cash cause that is funny. In the real world 28 mil doesn't play reserve innings.

 

[Parade_Rain]

You play with monopoly cash cause that is funny. In the real world 28 mil doesn't play reserve innings.

In the real world, after 2 years of not producing, that person will not be the full-time starter. This is big boy baseball, not the Tribune Cubs.

 

[CSF77]

Legit plan:

Trade Baez/Almora and a prospect choice for Archer.

Let Tseng/Mills/Butler compete for the 5.

Rotation set up. 2 losers play the depth card at Iowa.

OF: Resign Jay at discount. promote Chesny Young as he can cover every spot except pitch and catcher and that might happen still.

IF: Sign Stephen Drew. Can cover both 2B/SS. perfect UI solution and a major league vet. Still have Young who has a plus glove but arm is not ideal.

back up catcher/1B Victor Caratini.

That leaves payroll for MR. Which is a glaring need right now.

I would resign Wade and Duesing first. Then go with Montgomery/Strop/Edwards/Wilson. 6 guys. Then I would go big on the remaining 2.

Brandon Morrow
Bryan Shaw

 

[CSF77]

In the real world, after 2 years of not producing, that person will not be the full-time starter. This is big boy baseball, not the Tribune Cubs.

That is not a feasible plan.

To get rid of him they have to play him.

The bench lowers his WAR which makes him untradeable. Bottom line. Which will make him sit and soak payroll.

Which will make him sit on his pay day.

That is why he will not rot on pine.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm sort of curious what the cubs do with someone like Butler next year. My initial thought is that Tseng/Butler/Williams/Mills will all get a shot to win the 5th rotation slot probably with the cubs also signing a cheap FA vet similar to what Anderson was. tseng, williams and mills are all sorta of Hendricks type pitchers who are probably not very useful out of the bullpen. If they fail to win the #5 slot i think they are AAA depth and or trade bait.

Butler on the other hand throws 94-95 and out of the pen wouldn't shock to see him in the 97-98 range. He's also a pretty decently high ground ball guy which can be beneficial in jams to get a double play. If we assume they manage to re-sign Davis and you have Maples, Edwards, and Strop as your predominant righties with Monty/Duensing(re-sign) or Duensing-like as your LH options you're still needing 2 guys for the pen. Monty seemed like he got over used being the swing starter and maybe that put the cubs in a bind at times. I'd feel more comfortable if he were just a BP guy.

Given all that, you're talking about needing 2 guys. I'd argue they need another impact guy with Davis back. That's probably going to cost some decent money but I wonder if they wouldn't be ok giving Butler the swing starter role and having him be the long guy for blow outs/low leverage relief. He'd be cheap as well to help off set some of that set up money.

 

[CSF77]

I'm sort of curious what the cubs do with someone like Butler next year. My initial thought is that Tseng/Butler/Williams/Mills will all get a shot to win the 5th rotation slot probably with the cubs also signing a cheap FA vet similar to what Anderson was. tseng, williams and mills are all sorta of Hendricks type pitchers who are probably not very useful out of the bullpen. If they fail to win the #5 slot i think they are AAA depth and or trade bait.

Butler on the other hand throws 94-95 and out of the pen wouldn't shock to see him in the 97-98 range. He's also a pretty decently high ground ball guy which can be beneficial in jams to get a double play. If we assume they manage to re-sign Davis and you have Maples, Edwards, and Strop as your predominant righties with Monty/Duensing(re-sign) or Duensing-like as your LH options you're still needing 2 guys for the pen. Monty seemed like he got over used being the swing starter and maybe that put the cubs in a bind at times. I'd feel more comfortable if he were just a BP guy.

Given all that, you're talking about needing 2 guys. I'd argue they need another impact guy with Davis back. That's probably going to cost some decent money but I wonder if they wouldn't be ok giving Butler the swing starter role and having him be the long guy for blow outs/low leverage relief. He'd be cheap as well to help off set some of that set up money.

I'm not sure on Williams myself. He was injured this year but before that he started the S/T game I saw with my wife in Azl. Night game and rained... at Cinci's park. Think I'll do that again BTW fun times... But he got hammered and his stuff was oh humm. I just don't see the upside with him honestly. He was pretty advanced going in and got pushed up fast and minor league award but it was more on him being more advanced and when the field started to play out he got wrecked.

That said I'm not a fan of him and feel that he is trash.... ouch but pretty honest opinion. Of all of them Tseng seems to have the upside due to his arsenal. When you have 5 pitches that you have command of the hitter is not going to be able to read you from AB to AB. Pretty honest opinion here. He just beats you in so many ways that it over rides his base talent.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm not sure on Williams myself. He was injured this year but before that he started the S/T game I saw with my wife in Azl. Night game and rained... at Cinci's park. Think I'll do that again BTW fun times... But he got hammered and his stuff was oh humm. I just don't see the upside with him honestly. He was pretty advanced going in and got pushed up fast and minor league award but it was more on him being more advanced and when the field started to play out he got wrecked.

That said I'm not a fan of him and feel that he is trash.... ouch but pretty honest opinion. Of all of them Tseng seems to have the upside due to his arsenal. When you have 5 pitches that you have command of the hitter is not going to be able to read you from AB to AB. Pretty honest opinion here. He just beats you in so many ways that it over rides his base talent.

Well the point was more that they given a multitude of guys a chance to win the job and the rest become depth in AAA. There's always some pitcher who get signed off the scrap heap who's surprisingly good so I wouldn't begrudge the cubs for trying that. I'd argue that player and Tseng probably have the inside track given where everyone else is but I think you really want to make it a competition as opposed to just handing a guy a job.

Regardless, I'm not entirely sure Butler wins that job and if he doesn't the question is what do you do with him? Seems a bit of a waste to put him back in AAA. That's why I thought about the bullpen. Mills and Williams really wouldn't have much use in the bullpen so keeping them in AAA as starter depth makes more sense to me.

 

[CSF77]

Well the point was more that they given a multitude of guys a chance to win the job and the rest become depth in AAA. There's always some pitcher who get signed off the scrap heap who's surprisingly good so I wouldn't begrudge the cubs for trying that. I'd argue that player and Tseng probably have the inside track given where everyone else is but I think you really want to make it a competition as opposed to just handing a guy a job.

Regardless, I'm not entirely sure Butler wins that job and if he doesn't the question is what do you do with him? Seems a bit of a waste to put him back in AAA. That's why I thought about the bullpen. Mills and Williams really wouldn't have much use in the bullpen so keeping them in AAA as starter depth makes more sense to me.

Mills (at AFL ATM) https://www.mlb.com/cubs/video/mills-on-the-arizona-fall-league/c-1864677183?tid=52578840

Dark horse. He may end up the guy as his numbers were that good pre injury.

Tseng already on roster and the favorite

Butler logged innings. Joe really didn't like pushing him past the 5th so I really don't see him much more than depth.

Zastryzny: Has gone from the pen to the rotation. Honestly just a AAAA duty filler.

Underwood. Kinda earned a promotion. 13-7 4.43 ERA Talent wise he is still there. He does seem the just never put it together type though but deserves a shot at Iowa talent.

 

[CSF77]

James Pugliese is another that I would like seeing as a SP. He has been a spot starter for the most part but has held his own when pushed into duty. He intrigues me.

 

[fatbeard]

Like I said if you don't want to trade Baez fine. But at least make the argument that his infield defense at 2B is too good to give up rather than this lame "what if someone gets hurt?" excuse.

He's also a 25-year old player with an enormous ceiling who's a 2 fWAR player right now in a less-than-full-time role. I thought that went without saying. Apparently not.

 

[Omeletpants]

Theo press conference summary

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/10/20/theo-epstein-cubs-eyeing-trade-market-offseason/

 

[Diehardfan]

Are you seriously comparing the loss of a SS or 3B to a 1B? Defensively they aren't comparable. Is Rizzo good over there? Sure. Put Bryant at 1B and have LaStella at 3B.

Normally, I would agree but Rizzo one of the best I've seen at getting to bad throws...probably even better than Grace was. He saves the Cub infield 20-25 errors a season. Bryant at first would kill Russell.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Normally, I would agree but Rizzo one of the best I've seen at getting to bad throws...probably even better than Grace was. He saves the Cub infield 20-25 errors a season. Bryant at first would kill Russell.

While I would never suggest Rizzo isn't one of the best in the business at 1B, it's not considered a premium defensive position. That would be up the middle at SS and CF. Of course I like a good glove at 1B. As you stated, it helps the SS, who is the premium defensive position, but it isn't as difficult to replace defensively. I just threw Bryant out there. The real question would be who would replace 3B, which is a tough D spot, if tBryant to 1B would be the temporary move. Would Baez have to go there, while Happ covers 2B?

 

[DanTown]

He's also a 25-year old player with an enormous ceiling who's a 2 fWAR player right now in a less-than-full-time role. I thought that went without saying. Apparently not.

One, he's been in the majors for what now, three full years and the development isn't there?
Two, he was 2 fWAR in 500+ PA so even if he got another hundred and was a full-time player, you'd put his fWAR at like sub 3. That's ok but not "mother of god you can't trade this guy" especially when Happ showed similar ability as well as Russell this year and Russell was the far more valuable player last year.

 

[fatbeard]

One, he's been in the majors for what now, three full years and the development isn't there?

I'm honestly not sure where this comment is coming from.

 

[fatbeard]

Good stuff from Sahadev Sharma, if you missed it:

http://wgnradio.com/2017/10/22/sahadev-sharma-i-do-know-there-were-some-differences-with-bosio-cubs/

Last several minutes touch on Schwarber vs. Happ in terms of most likely to be traded. Some good insight:

-Cubs & other orgs/execs still truly believe Schwarber has "special" hit tool, MVP-type bat that we haven't seen from him yet
-Cubs underestimated the effects of Schwarber missing an entire season of development due to knee, WS performance probably fooled them
-Happ over performed expectations, makes sense to trade him while value high
-We saw the best of Ian Happ; Schwarber has MVP-ceiling
Good stuff from Sahadev Sharma, if you missed it:

http://wgnradio.com/2017/10/22/sahadev-sharma-i-do-know-there-were-some-differences-with-bosio-cubs/

Last several minutes touch on Schwarber vs. Happ in terms of most likely to be traded. Some good insight:

-Cubs & other orgs/execs still truly believe Schwarber has "special" hit tool, MVP-type bat that we haven't seen from him yet
-Cubs underestimated the effects of Schwarber missing an entire season of development due to knee, WS performance probably fooled them
-Happ over performed expectations, makes sense to trade him while value high
-We saw the best of Ian Happ; Schwarber has MVP-ceiling

 

[Parade_Rain]

Good stuff from Sahadev Sharma, if you missed it:

http://wgnradio.com/2017/10/22/sahadev-sharma-i-do-know-there-were-some-differences-with-bosio-cubs/

Last several minutes touch on Schwarber vs. Happ in terms of most likely to be traded. Some good insight:

-Cubs & other orgs/execs still truly believe Schwarber has "special" hit tool, MVP-type bat that we haven't seen from him yet
-Cubs underestimated the effects of Schwarber missing an entire season of development due to knee, WS performance probably fooled them
-Happ over performed expectations, makes sense to trade him while value high
-We saw the best of Ian Happ; Schwarber has MVP-ceiling
Good stuff from Sahadev Sharma, if you missed it:

http://wgnradio.com/2017/10/22/sahadev-sharma-i-do-know-there-were-some-differences-with-bosio-cubs/

Last several minutes touch on Schwarber vs. Happ in terms of most likely to be traded. Some good insight:

-Cubs & other orgs/execs still truly believe Schwarber has "special" hit tool, MVP-type bat that we haven't seen from him yet
-Cubs underestimated the effects of Schwarber missing an entire season of development due to knee, WS performance probably fooled them
-Happ over performed expectations, makes sense to trade him while value high
-We saw the best of Ian Happ; Schwarber has MVP-ceiling

Where's the mention of fire breathing dragons?

 

[brett05]

Where's the mention of fire breathing dragons?

other forum

 

[anotheridiot]

Well they held out on Castro, til he lost his value, have not sold high on anyone yet. He sold low with Castro and will be forced to sell low on Schwarber after this years showing. I think its even going to make it worse having Schwarber hearing the trade talks.

I think you match him up with a starter and let him catch a game a week and he will be a different player.