What would you do with Alfonso Soriano?

[CODE_BLUE56]

It's important in that the 1B has to receive all the throws during ground ball plays and has to figure out where he's supposed to be on cut-off plays, but otherwise you're talking about a guy who doesn't really move around a lot and just plays catch. You can't compare the 1B to the other infielders, and you need a certain amount of range and defensive talent to play OF. So moving Soriano from 2B to LF was because 2B is a much more important defensive position and much harder to play. Depends also on whether you buy into the theory of the defensive spectrum as well.

I agree it wouldn't be ideal, but I think the Cubs could benefit from giving Soriano a few reps at 1B just to see what they have. Especially in a rebuild year.

ya 2B is tough to play and soriano was terrible at it...soriano has decent range but overall as a defender he's not very good in the OF either...you need a certain amount of talent to play OF...but less than obviously some of the infield positions

and you're right about 1B...alot of simply staying and catching...boring but that doesnt mean it isnt important when you consider how many guys they have to put out...of course 2B is harder...you need to be able to have a decent glove to play 1B though imo... and soriano has a pretty bad glove...


for experimentation purposes, you might as well try it..but once rizzo comes up and i believe takes the starting spot at 1B, i dont really see any point in playing soriano there

i mentioned soriano going from the infield to the outfield as more of an observation..since you brought up alot of players do the opposite..but 1st and 2nd are different

 

[Rice Cube]

I don't think Prince Fielder is at 1B because of his glove :lol:

Most 1B are there because there's either a worse defender on the team who has to DH or because they are in the NL and there is no DH. The glove is more of a bonus.

This isn't to say that Soriano is valuable enough that he'd be a starting 1B on any other team. I'm just saying that for the Cubs' purposes it likely wouldn't matter anyway.

 

[nwfisch]

I'd give Soriano a discount double check.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I don't think Prince Fielder is at 1B because of his glove :lol:

i know...but soriano has an awful glove..i didnt say good or great glove did i?

Most 1B are there because there's either a worse defender on the team who has to DH or because they are in the NL and there is no DH. The glove is more of a bonus.

ya..but i mean you still have to CATCH the ball.....easy enough soriano?

This isn't to say that Soriano is valuable enough that he'd be a starting 1B on any other team. I'm just saying that for the Cubs' purposes it likely wouldn't matter anyway.

it probably wouldnt...i think it'd be more of an experimental couple of games thing...its not ideal but against LHP its an option

but no way you do it after rizzo is called up imo

 

[Rice Cube]

Soriano can catch. He just takes dumb routes that he can no longer compensate for with his speed. You don't need speed at 1B. But I do agree with you that this is more of an experiment than something an actual MLB team would do. And by "actual MLB" team I mean a team that actually has a shot at contention

Soriano's problem at 2B was his inability to catch a batted ball. Digging a thrown ball out of the dirt is a lot different than fielding a batted ball cleanly. So that's the main difference that should make him adequate at 1B. But I'm sure we all agree that he wouldn't get any Gold Gloves

And yes, if they call up Rizzo this experiment, if it's even attempted, is over.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Soriano can catch. He just takes dumb routes that he can no longer compensate for with his speed. You don't need speed at 1B. But I do agree with you that this is more of an experiment than something an actual MLB team would do. And by "actual MLB" team I mean a team that actually has a shot at contention

Soriano's problem at 2B was his inability to catch a batted ball. Digging a thrown ball out of the dirt is a lot different than fielding a batted ball cleanly. So that's the main difference that should make him adequate at 1B. But I'm sure we all agree that he wouldn't get any Gold Gloves

And yes, if they call up Rizzo this experiment, if it's even attempted, is over.

he's pretty bad at it...even fly balls

rest of the post i agree with

 

[Rice Cube]

If he couldn't catch, there's no way his fielding percentage is above .900

But I know what you mean.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

If he couldn't catch, there's no way his fielding percentage is above .900

But I know what you mean.

obviously the sample size would be too small

 

[nwfisch]

Quit ing :slap:

 

[Captain Obvious]

LOL...i pointed out earlier that this is an example of why WAR has issues...the whole metric can get skewed by position among other things

again darwin barney above ryan howard and nelson cruz? why?

perhaps we should refer to a good point that was made in the article FT posted

Is WAR the new RBI? | It's About The Money

"A few sluggers are swift, slender middle-infielders. Most of them aren’t. To paraphrase Reggie, there are lots of drinks and precious few straws. If you get left without one, no amount of Range Factor, WHIP, or baserunning acumen can save your season. Just ask the Padres, or the Mariners."

i agree...i believe that WAR and other metrics do a good job or incorporating baserunning,leg values, and alot of other things to help try to give a more in depth perspective on a player's value..but they overdo it in that regard...and this hurts sluggers like fielder and hmmm...SORIANO...at the end of the day i think there's a medium between a superficial view of a player's value(meaning judging on principle stats..saying a player is great because he has a high RBI count or something like that) and the metrics view....

baserunning,leg values, all of the other stuff is important...thats almost a given...but in comparison to slugging....they have should have less overall weight...why in the world do you think the cubs and so many other teams wanted fielder? because he's a great baserunner or a 5 tools guy? no...slugging

soriano was 50th in slugging pct...in one of his worst seasons....additionally a reason for his lower slugging pct is that he was an inconsistent base hitter

also, as i pointed out earlier by the way you extrapolated to give a seemingly more accurate judgement of campana's value...these metrics are open to subjectivity and fluctuate... there isn't one single standard here...look at barney's baseball reference WAR vs. his fangraphs WAR for an extreme example...on baseball reference campana and soriano had exactly the same WAR

you could pretty much pick some correlative number and call say its someone's WAR using subjective extrapolations

oh, and btw on fangraphs campana is projected to have a 1.1 WAR in 2012,reed johnson 0.4,

and soriano 1.5

This is getting very redundant. Soriano on this team stunts BJax's development as a prospect. Plain and simple. The Cubs aren't trying to win next year, so who the better player is is useless. We need the best team in 2013 and on. Soriano doesn't fit into that equation. Brett Jackson does.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

This is getting very redundant. Soriano on this team stunts BJax's development as a prospect. Plain and simple. The Cubs aren't trying to win next year, so who the better player is is useless. We need the best team in 2013 and on. Soriano doesn't fit into that equation. Brett Jackson does.

i agree....

although you were technically the one that brought up the whole "well players X,Y,and Z are better than soriano"

just sayin

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

CO may have won some battles but i won the WAR

 

[Captain Obvious]

i agree....

although you were technically the one that brought up the whole "well players X,Y,and Z are better than soriano"

just sayin

I still think he's not one of the best 3 OFers we have.... but I don't guess I'm gonna change your stance on the matter after all this lolx

 

[Rice Cube]

It's not really a matter of who's the best at this point...they know they have to play Soriano as much as possible to try to increase value. They also know that they're not going to call up Brett Jackson right away because of club control purposes. So if they're not going to make the trade, we're stuck with a bit more Soriano in LF. Life will go on because this season is a punt, and Soriano isn't really blocking anyone. If they really want to call up Jackson and Soriano isn't traded, then they'll try to move Byrd instead. There's no real block.

 

[daddies3angels]

I still think Byrd makes to much to trade. All Theo saids trading short term assests for long term assests. Byrd fits that perfectly.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I still think Byrd makes to much to trade. All Theo saids trading short term assests for long term assests. Byrd fits that perfectly.

He makes like 6.5MM. That's cheap for a 2-3 win CFer.

 

[daddies3angels]

He makes like 6.5MM. That's cheap for a 2-3 win CFer.

You and the NERDY STATS. I just pointed out that Theo loves to trade short term assessts for long term assessts, like Marshall for Wood and specs. Z for Volstad. Byrd seems like a logical choice. Also Byrd blocking a guy name Jackson

 

[Rice Cube]

You and the NERDY STATS. I just pointed out that Theo loves to trade short term assessts for long term assessts, like Marshall for Wood and specs. Z for Volstad. Byrd seems like a logical choice. Also Byrd blocking a guy name Jackson

Yeah, if you want prospects back, even mid- to low-tier ones, you trade Byrd because of his relative production over cost.

 

[DewsSox79]

I still think he's not one of the best 3 OFers we have.... but I don't guess I'm gonna change your stance on the matter after all this lolx

you changed your stance quickly on soriano. I thought he was the end all be all for the cubs.

 

[Captain Obvious]

you changed your stance quickly on soriano. I thought he was the end all be all for the cubs.

He's still my favorite player... but he needs to go. I'm not gonna lie, I love me some Fonzie. But his day has passed.