Where do you rank Jon Lester among SP

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chibears55

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That's the gamble you take when you depend on young prospects as the core of your team. Wild flictuations in daily performance of rookies learning the game, and no established elite players in the lineup spell trouble for the Cubs. You guys are atleast two years away from contending unless more moves are made.

I don't know about trouble.. they played most of last season with a dysfunctional lineup and rotation, and ended the last month or so with those kids in line up struggling for the most part and held their own ending with what 73 wins.. now they have a better established rotation and a steady line up though young but talented.. then toss in a well established elite manager to run them its not as troubled as you think...

though I agree they need to add another hitter , preferably in LF.. you cant assume it going to take 2 years for the core 4 kids to produce...
they could just as easily post solid numbers as they could struggle all year.. it a wait and see scenario.....

Rizzo and Castro are established hitters, with Rizzo on the verge of becoming elite level...

The Sox have stronger pitching and a better hitting lineup. They are good enough to challenge for the division crown, which means playoffs.

lets see stronger pitching ...
Sales Quintana shark noesi danks VS Lester Arrieta Hammels Hendricks Wada
id give an edge to sox on top 3 but not as a whole with the 4 and 5 starters.. so no I wouldn't say sox are stronger, their close overall

line up...
sox have the overall edge now because their more established and their top 4 is strong.. this is one we will have to look at again come July and we see more of what the kids on the cubs are doing..

I want to add this.. I do think Abreu is a good hitter but it wouldn't surprise me if his numbers were down from last year as the league now has a full year and an off season to study him.. just looking at his 2nd half numbers, he shows how good a hitter he is as his AVG sky rocketed but his power numbers went way down with only 7 2nd half homers.. I honestly hope he succeeds because I enjoy watching hitters who can hit .300 and smack 40 homers..

I fond it funny how Cubs fans question Shark. He will be a stud SP with the run support he'll get.

the question on shark is basically how will he fair as a AL starter for a full season and he notorious for having a bad 2nd half
I like shark and I hope he wins 20 games, I just have my doubts with him against tougher AL line ups

We also have Rodon making his way to the rotation next year, giving us four stud arms in the rotation.

So Rodon with just 9 minor league games under his belt will automatically become a STUD in the white sox rotation this year but the cubs core 4 kids who have hundreds of MINOR lgue ABs and have a few months of Major Lgue experience under their belt are a gamble and will struggle as they learn the game and spell trouble for the cubs..
lol..

Sox haters will always be skeptical, but the pundits who understand the game know the Sox can be as good as anyone IN THE AL.

ive heard even from sox fans I know and the pundits who know the game that the sox may be the 3rd best team in their division alone behind the tigers and royals..


this will all make for a good conversation come July when we see how both teams are doing with different type of rosters...
 

Boobaby1

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I think the expectations should be tempered just a little bit, and on both sides. Lets not forget that BOTH teams had horrible records, and to think that a few roster moves are going to catapult them into contention is a reach. Not to say that they can't (because it has happened before), but a lot would have to go in favor of either team to turn those records, into playoff records.

Adam LaRoche (35), Cabrera (30), plus Robertson and Shark are good acquisitions, but anyone knows that you don't win it on paper. The players still have to perform, and either team is just an injury away to guys like Abreu or Rizzo on the field, or Lester and Sale on the mound to being a sub .500 team once again.

Both are headed in the right direction, and Sale is far superior as a pitcher. Abreu and Rizzo are very close, but after all of that, it is merely a roll of the dice, and I would say the Sox have shored up their team immensely, whereas the Cubs have left the door open to do so because of the youth. They need a few questions answered, and a lot of them will be answered this year.

I feel I all honesty (barring injuries of course) that both teams will surprise this year going into the trade deadline. Not that they will have superior records, but that either team will be positioned to make move(s) to improve their respective teams further. :beer:
 

ChiSoxCity

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I don't know about trouble.. they played most of last season with a dysfunctional lineup and rotation, and ended the last month or so with those kids in line up struggling for the most part and held their own ending with what 73 wins.. now they have a better established rotation and a steady line up though young but talented.. then toss in a well established elite manager to run them its not as troubled as you think...

though I agree they need to add another hitter , preferably in LF.. you cant assume it going to take 2 years for the core 4 kids to produce...
they could just as easily post solid numbers as they could struggle all year.. it a wait and see scenario.....

Rizzo and Castro are established hitters, with Rizzo on the verge of becoming elite level...



lets see stronger pitching ...
Sales Quintana shark noesi danks VS Lester Arrieta Hammels Hendricks Wada
id give an edge to sox on top 3 but not as a whole with the 4 and 5 starters.. so no I wouldn't say sox are stronger, their close overall

line up...
sox have the overall edge now because their more established and their top 4 is strong.. this is one we will have to look at again come July and we see more of what the kids on the cubs are doing..

I want to add this.. I do think Abreu is a good hitter but it wouldn't surprise me if his numbers were down from last year as the league now has a full year and an off season to study him.. just looking at his 2nd half numbers, he shows how good a hitter he is as his AVG sky rocketed but his power numbers went way down with only 7 2nd half homers.. I honestly hope he succeeds because I enjoy watching hitters who can hit .300 and smack 40 homers..



the question on shark is basically how will he fair as a AL starter for a full season and he notorious for having a bad 2nd half
I like shark and I hope he wins 20 games, I just have my doubts with him against tougher AL line ups



So Rodon with just 9 minor league games under his belt will automatically become a STUD in the white sox rotation this year but the cubs core 4 kids who have hundreds of MINOR lgue ABs and have a few months of Major Lgue experience under their belt are a gamble and will struggle as they learn the game and spell trouble for the cubs..
lol..



ive heard even from sox fans I know and the pundits who know the game that the sox may be the 3rd best team in their division alone behind the tigers and royals..


this will all make for a good conversation come July when we see how both teams are doing with different type of rosters...

About young teams being productive, the Nationals, Royals and Orioles are perfect examples of the two year development concept. Depending on prospects is a delicate process that requires patience and committment. The Cubs are just now getting these guys on the big league roster. They still need time to learn the game, develop chemistry and trust, etc. Every young team goes thru a two/three year phase before they're truly ready. And keep in mind some of these guys will be busts--it's inevitable. Not every prospect is an All Star at 22-23 years old. Many prospects begin the most productive years of their careers at 27-28 yrs old, as most of you know. Honestly, I think the Cubs should hold on to the best two or three position prospects and trade the rest of them for elite players, then increase payroll by $100MM. Get that monkey off the frachises back so to speak.


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ChiSoxCity

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Rodon was an MLB ready stud pitcher the day he was drafted. Much like Sale, Rodon does not require development the way the Cubs' young position prospects did (and still do). The Sox want him eased into a starters role so he has time to get used to the lifestyle without all the lights and pressure. It's about building his confidence; the skill, knowledge and physicality is already there. Average age and MLB experience of the Sox and Cubs tells me all I need to know as far as reasonable expectations are concerned. The Sox will be ready on day one, the Cubs don't really know what they have yet.


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nickofypres

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Ehhhh.. sox are questionable 5-9 in the order
Laroche will provide power but not much else.

just like all 2nd yr players, Abreu not a sure thing yet..


Sale and Quintana good...

Jury still out on samardzija and a full season in the AL

Rest of rotation sucks..

Bullpen improved but it a wait and see how Robertson perform in only his 2nd season as closer..


Sox added some good players but not enough to say their ss good as any team in AL..
Like the cubs .500 and a WC hope is their first goal now

I agree with this 100%.
 

ChiSoxCity

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Keep in mind, LaRouche is a DH. If he hits 25-30 homers at .265ish clip behind Abreu, he's done his job. That would probably net us 90+ RBI without the rally killing strikeouts and pop flys of Dunn. Same deal for Melky replacing Dayan in LF.


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nickofypres

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Right, but A. Garcia is an unkown, Alexei is average, Gillaspie is half of a platoon, Flowers is meh. Sanchez/Johnson are rookies, unknowns.
 

nickofypres

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Anyway: any chance a mod can move this Sox talk into the Sox forum?
 

Boobaby1

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Keep in mind, LaRouche is a DH. If he hits 25-30 homers at .265ish clip behind Abreu, he's done his job. That would probably net us 90+ RBI without the rally killing strikeouts and pop flys of Dunn. Same deal for Melky replacing Dayan in LF.


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Also keep in mind, much like the Cubs when they replaced Shark and Hammel with Lester and Hammel, you are still in a one for one deal with a little improvement. To say that LaRoche will be a difference maker that is far superior to Adam Dunn is a stretch since he hit 41 HR's and 33 HR's three and two years ago respectively. Same goes with Cabrera. How much more do they offset the players they replaced? Granted, Abreu wasn't on the team, and his upgrade to Konerko was sufficient, but lets wait and see if the league starts to adjust to Abreu too. It can happen even to the best of players in their sophomore year.

If they were a .500 team already, I can see your point, but they are in the same boat as the Cubs as far as having to improve their record, and they too are having to catch other teams.
 

brett05

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By any stretch, he's one of the 10 best pitchers in baseball. The only guys I know for a fact I'd select ahead of him are Clayton Kershaw and Felix Hernandez. I put him in the same conversation as Adam Wainwright, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels and now, Madison Bumgarner -- guys that continue being elite into the playoffs, neither Kershaw nor Hernandez can say they've done that. Ditto for Chris Sale, Johnny Cueto and Yu Darvish.

David Price and Max Scherzer are both great, but have been 'average', by all accounts, in the playoffs.

Verlander has taken a huge step back -- he's not even a consideration for me. Jose Fernandez is coming off a major surgery and has 36 career starts, all for a team who was miserable under his tenure.

We're lucky to have him, that's for sure.

Oh boy
 

JosMin

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Please Brett, elaborate for everyone the notion that being the focal point to your team winning two World Series and having a proven track record of coming up huge in big games means nothing to a player's value to a rebuilding franchise, or his value in general.

Please share with us all the huge games Chris Sale has been lights out in. Let's talk about all the Game 7s he's mowed down the middle of the order or pitched out of a runners on first and third with one out jam. Oh, when you visit Chris Sale's Baseball Reference page... he has zero playoff appearances. That's interesting.
 

ChiSoxCity

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Right, but A. Garcia is an unkown, Alexei is average, Gillaspie is half of a platoon, Flowers is meh. Sanchez/Johnson are rookies, unknowns.

Alexei is average? Really? lol


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ChiSoxCity

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Also keep in mind, much like the Cubs when they replaced Shark and Hammel with Lester and Hammel, you are still in a one for one deal with a little improvement. To say that LaRoche will be a difference maker that is far superior to Adam Dunn is a stretch since he hit 41 HR's and 33 HR's three and two years ago respectively. Same goes with Cabrera. How much more do they offset the players they replaced? Granted, Abreu wasn't on the team, and his upgrade to Konerko was sufficient, but lets wait and see if the league starts to adjust to Abreu too. It can happen even to the best of players in their sophomore year.

If they were a .500 team already, I can see your point, but they are in the same boat as the Cubs as far as having to improve their record, and they too are having to catch other teams.

lol


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theberserkfury

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Alexei is average? Really? lol


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I'll let someone else talk about his defense... but as far as hitting goes, a career 92 OPS+ qualifies as below average, no?

I'm not sure how he stacks up to other SS, but it doesn't seem like calling him average is all that laughable...
 

ChiSoxCity

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I'll let someone else talk about his defense... but as far as hitting goes, a career 92 OPS+ qualifies as below average, no?

I'm not sure how he stacks up to other SS, but it doesn't seem like calling him average is all that laughable...

He's a SS, right? Common sense should tell you he should be compared to other SS (his peers). Otherwise what is the point of calling him "average" if every other SS is average as well?


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